artbuc

I have confirmed thru numerous sources that DEC PAG 46 is acceptable replacement for ND-8. In fact, one study showed DEC PAG 46 to be a better bearing lubricant than ND-8. I did talk to two Lexus and one Toyota dealer. They all said MUST use ND-8. Lexus wanted $158 for 250cc. Toyota had 100 cc for $90. Denso just confirmed DEC PAG 46 is ok.

code58

Artbuc- To say that that is absurd is the understatement of the year, maybe decade or century. What's it made of, wildcat milk that has to be milked on the run and then refined on Mars? Sheesh!

artbuc

Thought this was worth passing along. Repair manual differs saying to lube o ring with ND-8 compressor oil.

"Also keep in mind when replacing leaky o-rings on all A/C systems, including R-134a systems, that replacement o-rings and their fittings should be lubricated with either mineral oil or an application-specific, silicone-based lubricant instead of PAG or POE oils. PAG or POE oils should not be used due to their hygroscopic nature that can promote moisture attraction, possibly causing o-ring deterioration or thread fitting seizure."

code58

Very interesting AB. I wonder how many actually do that. Where the "O" ring is actually encapsulated it is hard to imagine getting moisture into the fitting through that O ring because of using the wrong oil. I have seen about 3 or 4 rusted seized fittings in all the time that I had done air charges, but that was with R12, before 134 ever came along, I have never seen it with 134, course where I live in So Cal. it's definitely not humid or rust country. I think you would be amazed that probably over 50% of all the work done (dealership or indie) is not done by the book, and sometimes the people doing it didn't know there was a book or where to find it if there was one.

artbuc

Everthing went great. The U.S. General Vac pump I got from Harbour Freight (2 stage 2.5 cfm $71.99) worked great. Toyota does sell individual O rings for $1.14. Two unexpected things happened which I hope are normal but I pass them on fyi.

When I first pulled vacuum the system sucked right down then, after a few minutes, there was a little surge of air. This repeated a few minutes later. After that I ran the pump for 20-30 minutes with the needle pegged at 30" and then let the system sit for about 30 mins before I started charging. My theory is the system was burping from the 40 cc of oil I added to the condenser. The other strange thing was that I couldn't get rid of the bubbles. I was pretty sure I added enough charge and the hi-lo pressures were right. After a couple days driving around town with A/C on, no more bubbles, except at shutdown when you should see them temporarily. I was getting ready to top-off but it looks like I don't need to now that the system has settled. For me, DIY evac/recharge was the right decision. I paid $146 for the vac pump, gages, oil and 134a (that includes $7 for the last can of 134a which I probably won't need). I could have had it done for $100-110 so it did cost me $36-46 to do it myself. However, I now have the vac pump and gages plus I had the convenience of doing the work in my own garage.

code58

Thanks for letting us know how things turned out Artbuc. I'm proud of you. What did you end up using for a condenser?. I didn't forget you, I did some research on the condenser but I don't normally get on the computer til about 9 at night or after and it seems like there are never enough hours in the day. I didn't come to a conclusion and was going to research some more, but glad you didn't wait for me.
Yea, the sight glass is nice to have (most of them have long since abandoned it) but not totally reliable concerning the foam, as you found out. Pressures and installing the right amount, plus outlet temps. at roadway speeds are the best test. Just for giggles, check your static pressure at a couple of different temps. against outside (shaded) temp to see how they compare. I have a tire pressure type A/C gauge for quick check and it was handy for a quick check without having to hook the gauges up.
As an aside, when we vented into the atmosphere there would often be a surge of pressure when it seemed to be almost empty, so there is something about the system that is not totally open obviously. Were you ever able to actually determine where the leak hole was? Later- Roger

artbuc

Roger, for better or worse I went with Silla. Only cost about $150 delivered and it has lifetime warranty. Denso is $450 with only 1 year warranty. I could get a Toyota OEM for much less than that. Quality looks good - only time will tell. Also bought a Denso drier kit for $20. Have to do this because drier casing is part of condenser and dessicant bag does not come with the condenser.

Do you agree with my guess that the two little blips of air during the initial phase of evacuation was probably burping from the oil?

No, couldn't find leak. Saw a couple spots were a small piece of paint was chipped away which could have been the leak but oil had wicked along the entire bottom channel so leak could have been anywhere.

code58

I'm not familiar with Silla, but I know the aftermarket A/C condensers that I have seen in recent time seem to look every bit as good as OEM. Aftermarket used to look like they were made in the back alley somewhere, but I don't think most people will accept that kind of quality any more. ALL condensers are made of very thin material anymore. I don't think it's "cheap", I think the thin aluminum sheds the heat quicker. When they went to 1 row radiator cores with a high tube and fin count and large frontal area and electric fans, they solved the overheating problems for good. The condensers changed about the same time to a huge # of small tubes, high fin count, thin material and large frontal area which is the most efficient at getting rid of the heat. My '04 F-150 P.U. has the same type of condenser, massive frontal area but thin in total thickness.
My experience with the burp or blockage and release is quit normal, I wouldn't give it a second thought. As for the leak, I'm not terribly surprised you couldn't find it, with the metal so thin and at 150-200 lbs.when operating, it could have been microscopic. Does the '03 have the opening down at the bottom of the condenser in the bumper? I have thought of putting some fine heavy screen on my DIL's in that area because it has taken plenty of hits from fine road debris but no leaks yet.