Lexus Canada Denies Powertrain Warranty
10-10-17, 08:57 AM
#32
Rookie
Thread Starter
I believe some of the procedures followed in aviation internal combustion engines for break in apply to all engines. Very interesting read:
http://www.shell.com/business-custom...-30071255.html
- The objective of the break-in procedure is to rub off any high spots, both on the cylinder wall and the piston rings, so that the rings can create a tight gas seal for normal operation
- Two actions by the pilot can critically impair this film rupture and therefore prevent adequate break-in; low power settings and the use of improper lubricating oils.
- High power settings mean high combustion pressures which, due to the piston ring design, forces the piston ring out to rupture the oil film. This is the key to the break-in process.
- To summarise, don't handle your engine gently, remember to check your oil level frequently and top up with only the correct oil during the break-in period and observe the oil change periods.
Wolfman
http://www.shell.com/business-custom...-30071255.html
- The objective of the break-in procedure is to rub off any high spots, both on the cylinder wall and the piston rings, so that the rings can create a tight gas seal for normal operation
- Two actions by the pilot can critically impair this film rupture and therefore prevent adequate break-in; low power settings and the use of improper lubricating oils.
- High power settings mean high combustion pressures which, due to the piston ring design, forces the piston ring out to rupture the oil film. This is the key to the break-in process.
- To summarise, don't handle your engine gently, remember to check your oil level frequently and top up with only the correct oil during the break-in period and observe the oil change periods.
Wolfman
10-10-17, 09:15 AM
#33
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...ave-asked.html
Get the oil and coolant to operating temperature, and put a load on it right away. ***** footing will only make the engine an oil burner. I bought a 1993 Celica GTS that I broke in using the "factory method" because it was a brand new car and I didn't want to void the warranty. It burned a quart of oil every 1500 miles. Toyota said anything over 1 quart per thousand was acceptable and they would do nothing about it. Never again. Every car I buy gets broken in the same way I broke in all the racing engines I have built. Full load in stepped increments with new pistons, full load with no steps for a ring replacement on used pistons.
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...ave-asked.html
Get the oil and coolant to operating temperature, and put a load on it right away. ***** footing will only make the engine an oil burner. I bought a 1993 Celica GTS that I broke in using the "factory method" because it was a brand new car and I didn't want to void the warranty. It burned a quart of oil every 1500 miles. Toyota said anything over 1 quart per thousand was acceptable and they would do nothing about it. Never again. Every car I buy gets broken in the same way I broke in all the racing engines I have built. Full load in stepped increments with new pistons, full load with no steps for a ring replacement on used pistons.
10-10-17, 11:25 AM
#34
When I think of Japanese cars, this thread is not what I envision. This sounds like one of those nightmare M3 conversations or Audi oil burning issues. I guess Lexus wants to catch all the way up to the Germans by adding luck of the draw engine reliability to performance vehicles...
I posted in your other conversation that I would have removed the exhaust even at my own expense given the cost of that vs the engine but that's in the past now. I have to admit that their position because of an exhaust leaves me a bit cold. If the advantage of service and reliability are lost, there are other choices out there to consider.
I posted in your other conversation that I would have removed the exhaust even at my own expense given the cost of that vs the engine but that's in the past now. I have to admit that their position because of an exhaust leaves me a bit cold. If the advantage of service and reliability are lost, there are other choices out there to consider.
) can see the problem but Lexus can't, get a lawyer to contact head office.
10-10-17, 06:32 PM
#36
I should have explained. This was the dealerships general managers personal company vehicle. I had my eye on it for a number of weeks and it came up for sale. It was fully loaded carbon tvd which is what I was looking for. The car had never been titled before.
Wolfman
Wolfman
That is ABSOLUTELY a tactic to make you feel more easy about who had the car and where's been. Have you done a carfax on it?
10-10-17, 07:56 PM
#37
Pole Position
I remembered seeing some nice cars (same year model low low mileage for sale) by supposedly driven by the "manager" at a "SAME BRAND DEALERSHIP NEARBY", but offered for sale by some sales guy at his house. Therefore not "officially sold via the dealership" and if something goes wrong it is NOT connected to the dealership. This is absolutely a RED FLAG.
FORTUNATELY in this OP's case, the car in question was sold OFFICIALLY by the Lexus dealership.
FORTUNATELY in this OP's case, the car in question was sold OFFICIALLY by the Lexus dealership.
10-12-17, 03:00 PM
#38
If Lexus starts denying w-coverage for powertrain issues because the owner has an aftermarket exhaust or suspension mods or anything else pretty inane without any proof to show causation, then they can go pound sand. I'm done with the F brand until they realize that some mods, within reason, are totally part and parcel of doing business with car enthusiasts.
I see a lot of junk/budget/crap mods in this forum so I understand their conservatism to a certain extent, but an exhaust contributing to excessive oil consumption? Pump the brakes, Lexus. You won't have a shot in h against the M cars of the world by making coverage a unilateral and binary equation.
I see a lot of junk/budget/crap mods in this forum so I understand their conservatism to a certain extent, but an exhaust contributing to excessive oil consumption? Pump the brakes, Lexus. You won't have a shot in h against the M cars of the world by making coverage a unilateral and binary equation.
10-12-17, 04:39 PM
#39
Lexus Test Driver
I had interior and paint defects on mine, both of which Lexus so no go on warranty. I had Porsche put in a new driver's seat once for some way more minor than the horrible wear and defect issue on my RCF seat. I was glad I totaled it and got out of it as there were quiet a few issues percolating up after 30,000 miles none of which Alexus seemed to keen on addressing.
Without a doubt, I have found both Porsche and BMW to be much better than Lexus at addressing issues.
Without a doubt, I have found both Porsche and BMW to be much better than Lexus at addressing issues.
10-12-17, 06:50 PM
#40
Pole Position
I think this is dealer dependent and on a lot on how the Individual's approach.
I've always gotten EXCELLENT warranty and after warranty (self paid) services with my MB's. Several years ago I bought a SLK280 hardtop convertible and relocated across the country and had minor issues (none of the issues we're disabling). So I took it to a totally different MB dealership in a different state (not the one who sold it to me) for minor issues. One of which was the center console broke and will not close properly. The MB dealership took care of it without any hassles. The we're many more minor non disabling issues (but still annoying).......all got sorted out with the same MB dealership very timely. I felt they treated me well and no issues. Within 6 months of my initial purchase I went for a full AMG SLK55 hardtop convertible. I kept the original SLK280. (I guess we had his and her hardtop convertibles). The AMG also had some minor issues (again, none were disabling). I kept the AMG in SoCal and the SoCal MB dealership took care of all issues without any hassles as well. I also felt they treated me well. No complaints.
All the Lexus dealerships I had experiences for services with were all EXCELLENT as well (except for the time one Lexus dealership OVERFILLED on my RCF on the complementary oil change). It was a relatively small Lexus dealership and I don't think they see much of the "FULL F MODELS". Still no excuses, I know.
The only "brand" I had issues with was the Volvo dealership in Reno NV many many years ago. I was driving through Reno NV many years ago with my 6 years old Volvo 960 4 door sedan (top of the line for Volvo at the time) and there was a noise coming from the rear axle. I called the Reno NV Volvo dealership and wanted to know if I can take it in. To my surprise, that Volvo dealership said maybe I should just buy another new Volvo!!! It was only 6 years old at the time!!! Anyway, I end up taking it to an indy in Reno and got the U joint replaced without much difficulty. It only took like a minute for the owner of the shop riding with me to tell me exactly what is wrong. I end up keeping the Volvo for a long time after that though.
I've always gotten EXCELLENT warranty and after warranty (self paid) services with my MB's. Several years ago I bought a SLK280 hardtop convertible and relocated across the country and had minor issues (none of the issues we're disabling). So I took it to a totally different MB dealership in a different state (not the one who sold it to me) for minor issues. One of which was the center console broke and will not close properly. The MB dealership took care of it without any hassles. The we're many more minor non disabling issues (but still annoying).......all got sorted out with the same MB dealership very timely. I felt they treated me well and no issues. Within 6 months of my initial purchase I went for a full AMG SLK55 hardtop convertible. I kept the original SLK280. (I guess we had his and her hardtop convertibles). The AMG also had some minor issues (again, none were disabling). I kept the AMG in SoCal and the SoCal MB dealership took care of all issues without any hassles as well. I also felt they treated me well. No complaints.
All the Lexus dealerships I had experiences for services with were all EXCELLENT as well (except for the time one Lexus dealership OVERFILLED on my RCF on the complementary oil change). It was a relatively small Lexus dealership and I don't think they see much of the "FULL F MODELS". Still no excuses, I know.
The only "brand" I had issues with was the Volvo dealership in Reno NV many many years ago. I was driving through Reno NV many years ago with my 6 years old Volvo 960 4 door sedan (top of the line for Volvo at the time) and there was a noise coming from the rear axle. I called the Reno NV Volvo dealership and wanted to know if I can take it in. To my surprise, that Volvo dealership said maybe I should just buy another new Volvo!!! It was only 6 years old at the time!!! Anyway, I end up taking it to an indy in Reno and got the U joint replaced without much difficulty. It only took like a minute for the owner of the shop riding with me to tell me exactly what is wrong. I end up keeping the Volvo for a long time after that though.
I had interior and paint defects on mine, both of which Lexus so no go on warranty. I had Porsche put in a new driver's seat once for some way more minor than the horrible wear and defect issue on my RCF seat. I was glad I totaled it and got out of it as there were quiet a few issues percolating up after 30,000 miles none of which Alexus seemed to keen on addressing.
Without a doubt, I have found both Porsche and BMW to be much better than Lexus at addressing issues.
Without a doubt, I have found both Porsche and BMW to be much better than Lexus at addressing issues.
10-12-17, 08:48 PM
#41
Mods...........
I think this is dealer dependent and on a lot on how the Individual's approach.
I've always gotten EXCELLENT warranty and after warranty (self paid) services with my MB's. Several years ago I bought a SLK280 hardtop convertible and relocated across the country and had minor issues (none of the issues we're disabling). So I took it to a totally different MB dealership in a different state (not the one who sold it to me) for minor issues. One of which was the center console broke and will not close properly. The MB dealership took care of it without any hassles. The we're many more minor non disabling issues (but still annoying).......all got sorted out with the same MB dealership very timely. I felt they treated me well and no issues. Within 6 months of my initial purchase I went for a full AMG SLK55 hardtop convertible. I kept the original SLK280. (I guess we had his and her hardtop convertibles). The AMG also had some minor issues (again, none were disabling). I kept the AMG in SoCal and the SoCal MB dealership took care of all issues without any hassles as well. I also felt they treated me well. No complaints.
All the Lexus dealerships I had experiences for services with were all EXCELLENT as well (except for the time one Lexus dealership OVERFILLED on my RCF on the complementary oil change). It was a relatively small Lexus dealership and I don't think they see much of the "FULL F MODELS". Still no excuses, I know.
The only "brand" I had issues with was the Volvo dealership in Reno NV many many years ago. I was driving through Reno NV many years ago with my 6 years old Volvo 960 4 door sedan (top of the line for Volvo at the time) and there was a noise coming from the rear axle. I called the Reno NV Volvo dealership and wanted to know if I can take it in. To my surprise, that Volvo dealership said maybe I should just buy another new Volvo!!! It was only 6 years old at the time!!! Anyway, I end up taking it to an indy in Reno and got the U joint replaced without much difficulty. It only took like a minute for the owner of the shop riding with me to tell me exactly what is wrong. I end up keeping the Volvo for a long time after that though.
I've always gotten EXCELLENT warranty and after warranty (self paid) services with my MB's. Several years ago I bought a SLK280 hardtop convertible and relocated across the country and had minor issues (none of the issues we're disabling). So I took it to a totally different MB dealership in a different state (not the one who sold it to me) for minor issues. One of which was the center console broke and will not close properly. The MB dealership took care of it without any hassles. The we're many more minor non disabling issues (but still annoying).......all got sorted out with the same MB dealership very timely. I felt they treated me well and no issues. Within 6 months of my initial purchase I went for a full AMG SLK55 hardtop convertible. I kept the original SLK280. (I guess we had his and her hardtop convertibles). The AMG also had some minor issues (again, none were disabling). I kept the AMG in SoCal and the SoCal MB dealership took care of all issues without any hassles as well. I also felt they treated me well. No complaints.
All the Lexus dealerships I had experiences for services with were all EXCELLENT as well (except for the time one Lexus dealership OVERFILLED on my RCF on the complementary oil change). It was a relatively small Lexus dealership and I don't think they see much of the "FULL F MODELS". Still no excuses, I know.
The only "brand" I had issues with was the Volvo dealership in Reno NV many many years ago. I was driving through Reno NV many years ago with my 6 years old Volvo 960 4 door sedan (top of the line for Volvo at the time) and there was a noise coming from the rear axle. I called the Reno NV Volvo dealership and wanted to know if I can take it in. To my surprise, that Volvo dealership said maybe I should just buy another new Volvo!!! It was only 6 years old at the time!!! Anyway, I end up taking it to an indy in Reno and got the U joint replaced without much difficulty. It only took like a minute for the owner of the shop riding with me to tell me exactly what is wrong. I end up keeping the Volvo for a long time after that though.
10-13-17, 06:23 AM
#42
Lexus Champion
If Lexus starts denying w-coverage for powertrain issues because the owner has an aftermarket exhaust or suspension mods or anything else pretty inane without any proof to show causation, then they can go pound sand. I'm done with the F brand until they realize that some mods, within reason, are totally part and parcel of doing business with car enthusiasts.
I see a lot of junk/budget/crap mods in this forum so I understand their conservatism to a certain extent, but an exhaust contributing to excessive oil consumption? Pump the brakes, Lexus. You won't have a shot in h against the M cars of the world by making coverage a unilateral and binary equation.
I see a lot of junk/budget/crap mods in this forum so I understand their conservatism to a certain extent, but an exhaust contributing to excessive oil consumption? Pump the brakes, Lexus. You won't have a shot in h against the M cars of the world by making coverage a unilateral and binary equation.
10-13-17, 09:10 AM
#43
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
How? I have no idea how a cat back exhaust could change anything "back pressure" related. Headers with different diameter primary tubes, sure, but after the header? No way.
10-13-17, 11:22 AM
#44
Rookie
Thread Starter
A quick search will reveal that exhaust back pressure will be in the single digit psi range, probably closer to the 1 to 3 psi range for most exhausts.
Compression stroke pressure is in the range of 100 to 200 psi.
Peak combustion stroke pressure is in the range of 1000 to 1500 psi or more for race applications.
So, I'm not sure what eliminating 3 psi of back pressure will do to an internal combustion engine? Specifically to the piston rings and/or cylinder bore of the engine in question that is clearly compromised for reasons unrelated to exhaust back pressure.
Wolfman
Compression stroke pressure is in the range of 100 to 200 psi.
Peak combustion stroke pressure is in the range of 1000 to 1500 psi or more for race applications.
So, I'm not sure what eliminating 3 psi of back pressure will do to an internal combustion engine? Specifically to the piston rings and/or cylinder bore of the engine in question that is clearly compromised for reasons unrelated to exhaust back pressure.
Wolfman
10-14-17, 05:05 AM
#45
The pursuit of F
Sorry to hear about the troubles. I got an identical car as you (just 2015) bought with 6k km, minus the exhaust (but did a res-delete), and similar "Executive driven" car. With the RSR Downs, I exhibited both my front struts leaking. My dealer replaced the struts without hassle. In cases like these, it truly does matter which dealer you deal with.