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Real or Synthetic Oil....

 
Old 12-02-18, 09:59 AM
  #361  
Davew77
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My dealerships use synthetic too. Heck, the last time I went in for an oil change my normal service advisor wasn't there and a different one was handling my appointment. I actually got into an argument with him because he swore up and down my RC F took 0w 40 synthetic oil. I kept telling him it was 5w 30 conventional. Then he called the service dept and the manager there said it was 10w 30 conventional... So neither of them were correct.

I said it was in the owners manual too and he said it was just a standard call out. Standard huh? Standard Lexus oil is synthetic. I wonder if a high school diploma is required to get their job?

I wanted synthetic anyway. But the simple fact that they had no clue what type of oil it was supposed to have really made me question their competence to handle anything else related to my vehicle.
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Old 12-03-18, 02:18 AM
  #362  
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Sometimes I wonder too about what qualifications is needed to work at some of these dealerships? Maybe it is all a BIG FAMILY!!!

Originally Posted by Davew77 View Post
My dealerships use synthetic too. Heck, the last time I went in for an oil change my normal service advisor wasn't there and a different one was handling my appointment. I actually got into an argument with him because he swore up and down my RC F took 0w 40 synthetic oil. I kept telling him it was 5w 30 conventional. Then he called the service dept and the manager there said it was 10w 30 conventional... So neither of them were correct.

I said it was in the owners manual too and he said it was just a standard call out. Standard huh? Standard Lexus oil is synthetic. I wonder if a high school diploma is required to get their job?

I wanted synthetic anyway. But the simple fact that they had no clue what type of oil it was supposed to have really made me question their competence to handle anything else related to my vehicle.
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Old 12-03-18, 07:28 AM
  #363  
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Originally Posted by Davew77 View Post
My dealerships use synthetic too. Heck, the last time I went in for an oil change my normal service advisor wasn't there and a different one was handling my appointment. I actually got into an argument with him because he swore up and down my RC F took 0w 40 synthetic oil. I kept telling him it was 5w 30 conventional. Then he called the service dept and the manager there said it was 10w 30 conventional... So neither of them were correct.

I said it was in the owners manual too and he said it was just a standard call out. Standard huh? Standard Lexus oil is synthetic. I wonder if a high school diploma is required to get their job?

I wanted synthetic anyway. But the simple fact that they had no clue what type of oil it was supposed to have really made me question their competence to handle anything else related to my vehicle.
For a brand that was defined by setting standards in regards to the service "experience," I've been terribly disappointed with my local dealership. They broke the windshield in my wife's ES350 while replacing the A/C a couple years ago and either didn't notice or chose not to disclose it. Luckily my wife saw it when she got in the car and pointed it out before driving off. They also butchered her dash during the airbag recall. It's obvious to me that they used screwdrivers to pry the panels off instead of plastic pry tools.

I get the impression that they're just hiring kids with no experience and no pride in their work.

Makes me not want to ever bring my ISF there...
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Old 12-03-18, 08:33 AM
  #364  
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^^^^You may want to disclose the dealer's name so others can avoid it.

Lou
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Old 12-03-18, 02:35 PM
  #365  
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Originally Posted by DekNgo View Post
For a brand that was defined by setting standards in regards to the service "experience," I've been terribly disappointed with my local dealership. They broke the windshield in my wife's ES350 while replacing the A/C a couple years ago and either didn't notice or chose not to disclose it. Luckily my wife saw it when she got in the car and pointed it out before driving off. They also butchered her dash during the airbag recall. It's obvious to me that they used screwdrivers to pry the panels off instead of plastic pry tools.

I get the impression that they're just hiring kids with no experience and no pride in their work.

Makes me not want to ever bring my ISF there...
I sure wouldn't take my vehicle there anymore, unless I had to for warranty work. Then I'd thoroughly inspect my vehicle before I left. Luckily I've not had any bad experiences with my Lexus dealers other than the oil argument.

I'd certainly leave an unbiased and factual review online about those experiences (i.e. leaving out my feelings on the matter). If they get enough negative press they might make efforts to prevent things like that from happening.


Edit: Pictures also add a lot of credibility to a review.

Last edited by Davew77; 12-03-18 at 04:33 PM.
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Old 12-04-18, 04:26 AM
  #366  
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Originally Posted by flowrider View Post
^^^^You may want to disclose the dealer's name so others can avoid it.

Lou
Originally Posted by Davew77 View Post
I sure wouldn't take my vehicle there anymore, unless I had to for warranty work. Then I'd thoroughly inspect my vehicle before I left. Luckily I've not had any bad experiences with my Lexus dealers other than the oil argument.

I'd certainly leave an unbiased and factual review online about those experiences (i.e. leaving out my feelings on the matter). If they get enough negative press they might make efforts to prevent things like that from happening.


Edit: Pictures also add a lot of credibility to a review.
I'm hesitant to disclose the dealer's name because these things happened 2-3 years ago and could have been corrected by now. I only take my cars there for warranty and/or recall type work, so I haven't needed to go back. You can bet that if I have to bring my ISF for something, there will be tons of "before" pictures and I'll inspect the car with a discerning eye before leaving.
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Old 12-04-18, 06:59 AM
  #367  
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Cool Scamsoil ??

Originally Posted by Spam89 View Post
Amsoil is good but why not use bio syn. Tested to last
Found this article while on my "Other Forum" for my 05 Ram w Cummins. Its pretty funny the way he explains things here on "Scamsoil" for all the Non-Believers. I know we could go on for days about this Oil decision, but Im not one to say "Mine is the best" or something like "YOU need to use this in your truck!" as Ive read here many times. Its ALL just a matter of choice what we choose to run, and Forums are just a place to read all the different choices others use.

Is It Real, or Just Scamsoil ??

Ps...Signature Series For Our RCF

Last edited by GunnyFitz; 12-04-18 at 07:10 AM.
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Old 12-06-18, 09:35 PM
  #368  
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Originally Posted by GunnyFitz View Post
Yes sir. Not the first time someone's said same thing. I guess those who live up around the Metro DC area know the term. It was technically my First Service of Two (2) Free ones, but I read that many dont get their 10k mile one Free. Puzzles me but at this point, w all the money Ive put into this car - Ill pay for the Labor, but will definitely use my Signature Series Amsoil, which has also has data proving its worth. Thanks Spam!
Officially (fine print in the manual) the RCF has a different service schedule, you are supposed to bring it in at 1K (inspection only), then 5K (oil change)..... Those are the Lexus USA official 2 "free" services. The other, non-F cars have their first services at 5K (inspection only) and 10K (oil change).

Some dealers throw in the 2nd change for RCFs as part of the sale, or by mistake, but Lexus' official position is only 1 oil change.

Here's part of the service schedule showing this:

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Old 12-06-18, 09:58 PM
  #369  
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Originally Posted by lexusrus View Post
Sometimes I wonder too about what qualifications is needed to work at some of these dealerships? Maybe it is all a BIG FAMILY!!!
Keep in mind that they're just like any other group of people in any profession, some will be better at what they do than others....and the automotive service pay model doesn't really reward quality, just speed and volume. Since many people aren't familiar with what a good job is (we're a little more attentive and informed than average drivers) mistakes happen and don't get caught, which means corrective action isn't as important as you might think.

Theses days, if I'm getting a dealer oil change, since I switched to synthetic @5K, I bring the oil myself. It also helps that I give them the exact amount to avoid overfills.

Of course I recognize I'm a little obsessive about this stuff, on this car I changed the oil at 1K too....part of the fun of ownership is obsessing about something.
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Old 12-06-18, 10:00 PM
  #370  
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Originally Posted by ct6978 View Post
Officially (fine print in the manual) the RCF has a different service schedule, you are supposed to bring it in at 1K (inspection only), then 5K (oil change)..... Those are the Lexus USA official 2 "free" services. The other, non-F cars have their first services at 5K (inspection only) and 10K (oil change).

Some dealers throw in the 2nd change for RCFs as part of the sale, or by mistake, but Lexus' official position is only 1 oil change.

Here's part of the service schedule showing this:
You're beating a dead horse. I pointed this out 2 years ago and some people still insisted that an oil change at 10k miles is supposed to be complimentary for the RC F.

With my new RC F I'm getting a free membership to the dealer's platinum club (automatically included with a special order car at this dealer). So I'll have free oil changes for the life of the car anyway.
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Old 01-07-19, 09:08 PM
  #371  
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Originally Posted by danielTRLK View Post
Lance, that's awesome to see that you sent it to rat. can you test the HDMO? The SHP is the weak cheaper version of BioSyn. The HDMO version is like a Ferrari 488 with an aftermarket twin turbo to a bone stock RC-F. Now if you could run the straight HDMO and not the low ash, you would get even better results.

I would venture that the HDMO LA or the HDMO straight would be #1's on rat's testing results.

Does rat charge you for testing?

I have a lab source btw that charges me $40/sample with full testing so message me when you need results. The SHP wouldn't do 10,000 miles on your GS F but the HDMO Low Ash could probably net 18,000 miles before it would oxidize. I had 20,000 going on Amsoil 0W20 before I got rear ended though.
And the results are in. HDMO has two things disappointing - first, its load capacity is less than the PCMO. Not a big difference, but it didn't test out at the same number or higher as I had hoped (and I have half a 5 gallon bucket of HDMO remaining...). What was a lot more concerning was the 245F onset of thermal breakdown.
Originally Posted by 540RAT blog
7. 5W30 Renewable Lubricants, HD Super High Performance, Bio-SynXtra motor oil = 125,250 psi
This biobased motor oil uses agricultural vegetable oil base stock. It has no Motor Oil Industry certifications, but claims to be formulated to meet the requirements for Diesel engines equipped with after treatment devices that require low ash. It also claims to be formulated for High Performance Turbocharged and Supercharged “DIESEL AND GASOLINE” engines that require API SN/CF, CF-4, CG-4, CH-4, CI-4, CI-4 Plus, CJ-4 and ACEA E2-96, E5-02 and E7-02.
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD
This oil was tested at the very end of 2018.
The psi value of this oil, which came from testing it at the normal operating test temperature of 230*F, put it in the FANTASTIC Wear Protection Category.
I also went on to test this oil at the much higher temperature of 275*F. At that elevated temperature, any hotter and thinner oil is expected to experience a drop in Wear Protection Capability. This oil had only an extremely small 0.3% drop in capability. Even at that elevated temperature, it produced 124,901 psi, which still kept this much hotter oil in the FANTASTIC Wear Protection Category.
I also tested this oil for its onset of thermal breakdown point, which was a very disappointing 245*F.
What this means to me is, this is a very good oil for NA engines. Not so great for turbo engines. Turbos are brutal on oil, even OEM designed systems like the 2JZ-GTE hammer the crap out of their oil because the return from the turbo bearings is almost boiling on exit. I won't be running this in my Supra for sure.

I just sent in my GS F sample from the PCMO oil and will post what I see, but I expect it will be stellar, especially since this engine has been so unusually slow wearing compared to everything else I have run.

For reference, here is how the PCMO tested:
Originally Posted by 540RAT blog
4. 5W30 Renewable Lubricants, Super High Performance Passenger Vehicle, Bio-SynXtra, motor oil = 130,436 psi
This patented biobased motor oil uses agricultural vegetable oil base stock, and is biodegradable. It claims to provide optimum performance in newer High Output Turbocharged and Supercharged “GASOLINE” engines. It also claims to have been formulated with the latest additive package components added to that base stock. It has no Motor Oil Industry certifications, but claims the formula passed the tests required for API SN. And it claims superior wear protection and high temperature stability, both of which proved to be true in my Engineering tests. In addition, it also claims to have a very high Viscosity Index value, which helps against fuel dilution concerns. The higher the Viscosity Index value, the less the oil’s viscosity is reduced as it heats up.
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD
This oil was tested Summer 2018.
The psi value of this oil, which came from testing it at the normal operating test temperature of 230*F, put it in the FANTASTIC Wear Protection Category.
I also went on to test this oil at the much higher temperature of 275*F. At that elevated temperature, any hotter and thinner oil is expected to experience a drop in Wear Protection Capability. This oil had only an extremely small 0.7% drop in capability. Even at that elevated temperature, it produced 129,486 psi, which still kept this much hotter oil in the FANTASTIC Wear Protection Category.
I also tested this oil for its onset of thermal breakdown point, which was 275*F.
This was the first biobased motor oil I ever tested. And its performance was EXTREMELY IMPRESSIVE. These results probably surprise a lot of people, since this oil wasn’t even made from petroleum base stock. So it appears, there could be a very bright future for biobased motor oil, if they are formulated well.
And the test data produced by this biobased oil, further backs up what I have said about a motor oil’s “base stock” NOT being all that critical, it is the “additive package” that IS critical.
RAT himself says any difference less than 10% can be ignored, so for all intents and purposes, these oils tested the same. It also means the Amsoil oils are within safe margins of error to say they are close enough to the RLI oils as to be indistinguishable. My biggest reason for choosing RLI is the stability the oil exhibits at elevated temperatures. You just don't see sub 1% losses at 275F, but BOTH of these oils showed remarkable stability at high temperatures. I just wish HDMO didn't want to start thermal breakdown at 245F.

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Old 01-08-19, 06:07 AM
  #372  
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Originally Posted by lobuxracer View Post
And the results are in. HDMO has two things disappointing - first, its load capacity is less than the PCMO. Not a big difference, but it didn't test out at the same number or higher as I had hoped (and I have half a 5 gallon bucket of HDMO remaining...). What was a lot more concerning was the 245F onset of thermal breakdown.


What this means to me is, this is a very good oil for NA engines. Not so great for turbo engines. Turbos are brutal on oil, even OEM designed systems like the 2JZ-GTE hammer the crap out of their oil because the return from the turbo bearings is almost boiling on exit. I won't be running this in my Supra for sure.

I just sent in my GS F sample from the PCMO oil and will post what I see, but I expect it will be stellar, especially since this engine has been so unusually slow wearing compared to everything else I have run.

For reference, here is how the PCMO tested:

RAT himself says any difference less than 10% can be ignored, so for all intents and purposes, these oils tested the same. It also means the Amsoil oils are within safe margins of error to say they are close enough to the RLI oils as to be indistinguishable. My biggest reason for choosing RLI is the stability the oil exhibits at elevated temperatures. You just don't see sub 1% losses at 275F, but BOTH of these oils showed remarkable stability at high temperatures. I just wish HDMO didn't want to start thermal breakdown at 245F.
Great report, thanks for sharing. I too wish the RLI didnt break down at such (relatively) low temp. I'll use my jugs in a couple thousand miles when I'm up for an oil change.
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