IS350 Revision S/C
05-23-12, 05:53 AM
#46
5,000 mile update!!!
So after a long day at work I had the pleasure of cruising home windows down S/C whining putting out enjoyable power passing cars on a country 2 lane road. All of a sudden upon releasing the throttle after holding 5lbs of boost the car was still pulling forward but the BOV was queefing instead of forcefully blowing off. In that split second everything sounded and felt all wrong. Before I could even react the car threw a CEL and the throttle was locked. P2111 - Throttle Actuator Control System - Stuck Open. When I pulled to the side of the road I heard a horrible grinding noise coming from the S/C. I immediately shut the car, looked around, restarted, noise even louder. I didnt have any tools with me except a utility knife I keep in the trunk...Took me a solid 5minutes to cut the S/C belt! I then started the car...it was fine...limped home and heres what I found:
Oil and metal soup puked up from the compressor side!
Ok fine, the impeller was forced into the compressor housing and the oil seal allowed oil to puke out...I'm OK with that..new impeller and I'm set?
Look at the bends; are you kidding me!?
Wow was I wrong, the S/C completely imploded destroying whatever it felt like-
The two most expensive ceramic angular contact bearings failed in a MAJOR way causing the input shaft to spin freely and grind anything it touched... there were bearings split in half inside this thing.
I'm so dejected and pissed right now....
You have to pay to play but this is ridiculous after buying the best bearings money can buy!
So can we talk about my Synapse BOV and wtf could have happened!? It clearly did not "blow off" from what I heard and felt but could the blower really suffer that badly? I'm guessing depending on the rotation direction change and enough speed all it took was for one ball bearing to pop and the rest followed suit. F#*K
So after a long day at work I had the pleasure of cruising home windows down S/C whining putting out enjoyable power passing cars on a country 2 lane road. All of a sudden upon releasing the throttle after holding 5lbs of boost the car was still pulling forward but the BOV was queefing instead of forcefully blowing off. In that split second everything sounded and felt all wrong. Before I could even react the car threw a CEL and the throttle was locked. P2111 - Throttle Actuator Control System - Stuck Open. When I pulled to the side of the road I heard a horrible grinding noise coming from the S/C. I immediately shut the car, looked around, restarted, noise even louder. I didnt have any tools with me except a utility knife I keep in the trunk...Took me a solid 5minutes to cut the S/C belt! I then started the car...it was fine...limped home and heres what I found:
Oil and metal soup puked up from the compressor side!
Ok fine, the impeller was forced into the compressor housing and the oil seal allowed oil to puke out...I'm OK with that..new impeller and I'm set?
Look at the bends; are you kidding me!?
Wow was I wrong, the S/C completely imploded destroying whatever it felt like-
The two most expensive ceramic angular contact bearings failed in a MAJOR way causing the input shaft to spin freely and grind anything it touched... there were bearings split in half inside this thing.
I'm so dejected and pissed right now....
You have to pay to play but this is ridiculous after buying the best bearings money can buy!
So can we talk about my Synapse BOV and wtf could have happened!? It clearly did not "blow off" from what I heard and felt but could the blower really suffer that badly? I'm guessing depending on the rotation direction change and enough speed all it took was for one ball bearing to pop and the rest followed suit. F#*K
Last edited by mikellucci; 05-23-12 at 06:03 AM.
05-23-12, 06:09 AM
#48
I like the color and viscosity of the oil.. Its literally thick soup after all the metal that was consumed in the damage. Crazy
Last edited by mikellucci; 05-23-12 at 06:17 AM.
05-23-12, 07:55 PM
#51
I've seen a turbo tore up in a similar fashion due to compressor surge, but that was at @24psi.
I'm really sorry this happened to you, can you get any recourse from the bearing manufacturer?
I doubt you'll get much from the BOV manufacturer, since there are so many variables.
The bearings were well within their designed operating parameters I assume.
I'm really sorry this happened to you, can you get any recourse from the bearing manufacturer?
I doubt you'll get much from the BOV manufacturer, since there are so many variables.
The bearings were well within their designed operating parameters I assume.
05-24-12, 12:28 AM
#52
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Wow man I don't even know what to say. That sucks so much. After all the work... Are you throwing in the towel? If not pm me, I'm slotted to buy a c-2 head unit from A buddy for dirt cheap (he's deploying and needs the cash). If I don't get out bought ill give it to you. I still
Have a super long way to go before I'm ready to build my own fi So an actual
S/c isn't priority right now. Lemme know man, I'll help for sure if I can. Again sorry
Have a super long way to go before I'm ready to build my own fi So an actual
S/c isn't priority right now. Lemme know man, I'll help for sure if I can. Again sorry
05-24-12, 07:37 AM
#53
Thanks all for the support! Sheaut happens, we all know that. Just sucks when you think you've nailed everything down then in a split second it all changes. Been there done that! Its my fault in that I tightened down the valve bolt on the Synapse BOV about 10 days ago. I was getting what sounded like flutter at 2-3 psi so I decided to mess with the valve. Come to think of it it didnt sound all that great blowing off over 5psi since I did that. I guess I didnt pay enough attention and now its too late.
I searched some vids on youtube with Synapse and it was def. compressor surge spread out over a couple times that broke a bearing...The last incident was just the icing on the cake causing the input shaft to just spin wildly chipping the gears and sending the impeller straight into the casing.
This C1 is toast...only thing salvagable is the casing and compressor housing. Its going to be a while until I do anything with it...on the shelf it goes...at least I have an excuse to powdercoat the comp.housing and get rid of the Mustand red color.
KingDavid - I still need to RE to you PM..sorry for the delay! Also, I'd def. take you up on any offer for a C1 or C2 Procharger...they are tough to come by these days. Thx
05-24-12, 02:02 PM
#54
I had the same issue with my boosted Civic an a Greddy Type S BOV. It had both springs in it at first, and at minimal boost it surged bad. Removed the stiffer inner spring and it worked great. Then while getting tuned on 23lbs I threw the spring back in; worked great!
Again, keep your chin up bro!
Again, keep your chin up bro!
05-24-12, 02:35 PM
#55
mikellucci,
Sucks, I have a Synapse Anti Stall kit I'll send you that will stop the issue your seeing. PM me your address.
Or just do as I did and repipe back to intake.
This is a common issue with that S/C as you stated before. Have you ever considered a Rotrex compressor.
http://www.rotrex.com/Home.aspx
This is what I have in the HKS S/C kit. It's just rebadged with the HKS Logo.
Sucks, I have a Synapse Anti Stall kit I'll send you that will stop the issue your seeing. PM me your address.
Or just do as I did and repipe back to intake.
This is a common issue with that S/C as you stated before. Have you ever considered a Rotrex compressor.
http://www.rotrex.com/Home.aspx
This is what I have in the HKS S/C kit. It's just rebadged with the HKS Logo.
05-25-12, 07:24 AM
#56
Lots of cool guys on this forum willing to lend a hand and offer condolences - didnt expect it - appreciate it!! I've blown turbos, motors, axles, trannys, etc. before but nothing on such low simple boost! LOL What a slap of reality!
I actually talked to a rep at Rotrex several months ago about using their SP30 for a "kit" on the ISx50..guy wasnt very helpful and the 10 unit buy-in offered very little discount. Vortech was more appealing at the time but I guess thats beside the point. HKS350, to answer your question I really havent looked at using the Rotrex comp. side on the Procharger...thats interesting, I'm going to check it out and understand the benefits it could offer.
After thinking about things further I've come to the conclusion that I dislike two of the bearings on the input shaft - 17x40x12 on the other side of the impeller and 15x35x11 on the far end of the gear shaft. These are the two most critical components of the C1 and C2 blower and they seem overly prone to failure despite what bearings are utilized. Its a crap shoot - use ceramic for higher speed, better heat dissipation but at the cost of "some" play in the inner nylon cage. Or use abec-7 at the cost of slower speed, more heat but a solid steel cage. I feel that using the full ceramic for those two bearings actually introduces SHAFT PLAY or whatever term would apply to a S/C vs a Turbo. While this should not be an issue it played a huge role in the destruction of my unit because of the compressor surge. Right, wrong or indifferent; the environment will never be perfect and you have to plan for that. I dont truly like either option available!! However, I believe the C2 I have on hand is a better built unit using the Abec-7 bearings at the cost of knowing the unit will need pulled and rebuilt after x,xxx miles to prevent failure. On the other hand, using delicate ceramic bearings "should" last longer but at the cost of one mistake and catastrophic failure is inevitable. I believe my claims are backed up in a round about way with the experiences I read of Nissan and Ford owners that have used Cx prochargers and moved to P1SC and larger Vortech / Rotrex.
So where does that leave me? Will I look at buying a different unit all together - absolutely. Will I use another C1 or C2 blower - yes, in the interim.
HKS350, is it really well advised to recirculate the bov on a centrifugal S/C setup?
I actually talked to a rep at Rotrex several months ago about using their SP30 for a "kit" on the ISx50..guy wasnt very helpful and the 10 unit buy-in offered very little discount. Vortech was more appealing at the time but I guess thats beside the point. HKS350, to answer your question I really havent looked at using the Rotrex comp. side on the Procharger...thats interesting, I'm going to check it out and understand the benefits it could offer.
After thinking about things further I've come to the conclusion that I dislike two of the bearings on the input shaft - 17x40x12 on the other side of the impeller and 15x35x11 on the far end of the gear shaft. These are the two most critical components of the C1 and C2 blower and they seem overly prone to failure despite what bearings are utilized. Its a crap shoot - use ceramic for higher speed, better heat dissipation but at the cost of "some" play in the inner nylon cage. Or use abec-7 at the cost of slower speed, more heat but a solid steel cage. I feel that using the full ceramic for those two bearings actually introduces SHAFT PLAY or whatever term would apply to a S/C vs a Turbo. While this should not be an issue it played a huge role in the destruction of my unit because of the compressor surge. Right, wrong or indifferent; the environment will never be perfect and you have to plan for that. I dont truly like either option available!! However, I believe the C2 I have on hand is a better built unit using the Abec-7 bearings at the cost of knowing the unit will need pulled and rebuilt after x,xxx miles to prevent failure. On the other hand, using delicate ceramic bearings "should" last longer but at the cost of one mistake and catastrophic failure is inevitable. I believe my claims are backed up in a round about way with the experiences I read of Nissan and Ford owners that have used Cx prochargers and moved to P1SC and larger Vortech / Rotrex.
So where does that leave me? Will I look at buying a different unit all together - absolutely. Will I use another C1 or C2 blower - yes, in the interim.
HKS350, is it really well advised to recirculate the bov on a centrifugal S/C setup?
05-30-12, 06:28 AM
#59
When are YOU going rear mount turbo? I'd like to join you come this winter when I take my car down.