Elite has given up on the ISx50. He doesn't even post on here anymore.

 

I haven't given up. A free kit is out of the question... I have not posted because all you guys do is complain about it, and I have 3 ISF's to get done. Plus all the other projects around the shop. So I'm just too busy to check to see if you guys have another reason that something I have said is wrong. The kit will come in time and when it does you guys will like it. Anyway, back to the 750whp ISF project.

Thanks,
Andy

 

^ I like this guy. Actions....not words.

 

Elite Autosport is a great shop, if I'd had the $$$, *****, time then I would consider this but I don't.

 

Seriously.... if I had the time and $$$$$ I would do it.

But I have neither

 

hopefully someone goes through with it but it doesn't look good. maybe elite will get their hands on someone's IS not on CL..

 

The thing is that Elite is about roughly 45 minutes away from me,

 

Tell me why it's out of the question?

What if i give you my car and the engine blows up? What happens then?

 

with all due respect, but what have you shown the 2is community to stop us from being critical about what you're proposing to do? imo, aside from a lot of big (and now dismissive) talk, not much else.

you say that you're waiting on someone to send in a 2is as a test mule, fine. even if someone does send you their 2is as a test mule, what guarantees will your shop provide against something like a blown motor? if you're confident enough that your proposed turbo kit won't blow the 2is motor, why not go get your own 2is and use that to fabricate your own kit rather than waiting for one of us to send you a 2is? or is it that you want someone to pay you for a prototype kit so that you don't have to foot the bill for the individual components?

again, until you've proven us completely wrong, it's just a lot of promises and not much delivery. if you're not going to give us an option, more power to you; i'm sure someone else will, and it'll just reaffirm the fact that all you did was a lot of talking but not much of anything else.

 

In following this thread for some months now, I can't say this is the impression I've gotten. I've seen some legitimate questions/concerns, a number of cynical post, and then general questions which haven't really advanced the thread, any. The intentions of what Elite stated were made clear, in that they were initially gauging interest, while attempting to source a car to start their project. What evidence they have provided, comes in the form of the current IS-F project(s), which will be mirrored to some degree on the ISx50. As the community is incredibly and understandably anxious when it comes to boost, questions were asked, and they provided some speculation/estimates, where they could.

So far as moving forward is concerned, going tit-for-tat with them isn't going to help the community-- providing a car, will (as has been done with the F). If that persons interest is legitimate, they need to have a discussion with Elite regarding how they will be protected, on what terms, and at what risk/benefit. Given the test kit will not be free, perhaps the cost/risk of the initial kit can be spread amongst the community, via donations from those who insist on boost, as I've seen on other car clubs. If they (or anyone else) are not convinced, then the community needs to accept the fact that boost is likely out of reach, as there is too much risk for what its worth, followed by what will be speculated as the hp/$$ figure being too steep.

 

I don't think the kit should be "free" but I do think this:

1) The people developing it should guarantee (in writing, contract-like) that at WORST the person will get their car back in the same condition as when it was given to them (ie with a working engine for example). It should state they'll have it back by (Insert date here that the developers are SURE they'll be done with it one way or the other).

2) The guy lending his car should have to pay for all the parts he'll be getting when the thing is done. He should be paying the shops cost for them since the shop will be giving him these parts to keep.

3) The guy lending his car should be getting the labor, and the guarantee, at no cost to himself in exchange for his being willing to give his car up for what I expect will be at minimum a couple of months.



Hence at the end the result will be one of the following:

1) Shop decides they can not develop a cost effective kit but haven't harmed the car- guy gets his car back and nothing else.

2) Shop blows his motor (or tranny or something else) as a result of their development... shop pays all expenses to fix it... because they blew it up. Guy can let them keep trying if he wants, or get his car back as it was delivered.

3) Ideally- shop successfully develops working kit, guy pays them for the parts on the car and drives off with it, telling everyone here how awesome it is. Guy would give shop rights to use whatever pics/video/etc of his car in their advertising of said kit.




But overall expecting the shop to eat the full cost of both their labor AND their parts is not reasonable... likewise expecting the guy volunteering his car to eat the repairs if the shop breaks anything, also not reasonable.

 

I agree with most of this. With the exception of the engine breaking part. I think we can make MINIMUN 50whp safely. It is up to the customer to let me know how crazy they wanna go. I am not willing to cover a blown motor if the customer wants to try and push it. I will cover any damage that could be done while building the kit. I am VERY confident this will happen I just need the right person to help me out with it.
Thanks,
Andy

 

I disagree with the bolded piece. You're the expert. You're building the kit and should be able to calculate what is and is not reasonable. You're in business as a professional and expected to exercise your judgment to decide what is and is not possible, reasonable, or prudent. There are many ways to figure out these numbers with margins for safety before you ever turn a wrench.

I agree 50 whp should be easy and safe, but saying the customer is the arbiter of what you'll guarantee isn't good business. Pick a target based on your professional opinion, hit it, and call it good.

 

im gonna start this post by saying i have no potential to gain anything from this kit being made or not. in fact i just dont care. it just so happens that this thread was brought to my attention. lol

as for being a test car. the way it generally work is as follows

1. you choose to give your car up with the understanding that it may blow up within an hour of taking delivery of it. you are the test you cant be guaranteed anything. there is a price to pay for being the first after all

2. the 2 month time line that someone stated is a joke. no way no how. 6 months would be being generous. that is assuming this is really the first and not just a retrofitted kit from another car.

3. as for cost of the project. generally (not always) the test car will pay cost or cost plus a given percent for parts and nothing for labor. this benefits both parties.

4. a lot of times test cars get used at a lot of shows and events and so on. so if you need your car as a daily dont give it up to be the guinea pig cuz you may not see it for months on end.

all that being said idk elite and idk what their capabilities are so this is all speculation and from personal experience being a test car for a lot of companies.

 

oh and i forgot to add. if your making a test kit for sale for general public why would it be up to the customer to determine "how crazy they want to get" you should have a plan in place for what you want to do and do it. then if the customer wants to build on it later that is up to them.