SC300 Will crank fine, but won't start
07-05-12, 01:25 PM
#1
SC300 Will crank fine, but won't start
I have a 1994 Sc300 that was running fine.
The alternator went bad on it, so I replaced it. After this, the car started up and ran fine... except for the fact that the battery now wouldn't hold a charge. Since this is not my daily driver, I did not get a new battery for almost a month and the car just sat in my parking lot for 20-30 days or so.
A few days ago I went to get a new battery (so new battery and new alternator, both working), and now the car will crank but not turn over / start up
As I mentioned, nothing was wrong with the car or the way it ran prior to this alternator / battery replacement. I know letting it sit for a month didn't do it any favors either...
So from all of the threads I've read here on CL I assume that since she cranks well, it must be:
1. No Gas getting to the engine
2. No spark
3. Bad timing belt
(3) I will be taking the timing belt cover off to visually check this; however, it seems super unlikely since... how would my t-belt just break while the car was sitting around not running.
(2) I've read how to check for a spark and will be doing this, along with visually checking out the distributor cap and rotor.
** (1) I am reading that I can check for gas by finding a "valve that looks like a bike tire air valve" and depressing this while I try to crank the car. The only issue is that I cannot, for the life of me, find this darn thing. Does anyone know the location of this? I've looked around my engine for 15 mins, looked at the service manual, etc... but to no avail.
Any info, input, help or ideas are GREATLY appreciated.
We don't want to lose another SC... heck she's almost a "classic"
The alternator went bad on it, so I replaced it. After this, the car started up and ran fine... except for the fact that the battery now wouldn't hold a charge. Since this is not my daily driver, I did not get a new battery for almost a month and the car just sat in my parking lot for 20-30 days or so.
A few days ago I went to get a new battery (so new battery and new alternator, both working), and now the car will crank but not turn over / start up
As I mentioned, nothing was wrong with the car or the way it ran prior to this alternator / battery replacement. I know letting it sit for a month didn't do it any favors either...
So from all of the threads I've read here on CL I assume that since she cranks well, it must be:
1. No Gas getting to the engine
2. No spark
3. Bad timing belt
(3) I will be taking the timing belt cover off to visually check this; however, it seems super unlikely since... how would my t-belt just break while the car was sitting around not running.
(2) I've read how to check for a spark and will be doing this, along with visually checking out the distributor cap and rotor.
** (1) I am reading that I can check for gas by finding a "valve that looks like a bike tire air valve" and depressing this while I try to crank the car. The only issue is that I cannot, for the life of me, find this darn thing. Does anyone know the location of this? I've looked around my engine for 15 mins, looked at the service manual, etc... but to no avail.
- Is there anything else I am neglecting to check?
- Could it be bad battery cables or connectors even though it cranks just fine? The radio, air, lights etc all work just fine.
- When I turn the key to the on position, from inside the car, I don't really hear the fuel pump turning on... but since I've never dealt with this, I am not sure what I am listening for. Can I hear it from inside the car or do I need to be in the trunk?
- Any grounds or anything that I should look at?
Any info, input, help or ideas are GREATLY appreciated.
We don't want to lose another SC... heck she's almost a "classic"
Last edited by IS_Sunny; 07-05-12 at 01:28 PM.
07-05-12, 04:30 PM
#2
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I have a 1994 Sc300 that was running fine.
The alternator went bad on it, so I replaced it. After this, the car started up and ran fine... except for the fact that the battery now wouldn't hold a charge. Since this is not my daily driver, I did not get a new battery for almost a month and the car just sat in my parking lot for 20-30 days or so.
A few days ago I went to get a new battery (so new battery and new alternator, both working), and now the car will crank but not turn over / start up
As I mentioned, nothing was wrong with the car or the way it ran prior to this alternator / battery replacement. I know letting it sit for a month didn't do it any favors either...
So from all of the threads I've read here on CL I assume that since she cranks well, it must be:
1. No Gas getting to the engine
2. No spark
3. Bad timing belt
(3) I will be taking the timing belt cover off to visually check this; however, it seems super unlikely since... how would my t-belt just break while the car was sitting around not running.
(2) I've read how to check for a spark and will be doing this, along with visually checking out the distributor cap and rotor.
** (1) I am reading that I can check for gas by finding a "valve that looks like a bike tire air valve" and depressing this while I try to crank the car. The only issue is that I cannot, for the life of me, find this darn thing. Does anyone know the location of this? I've looked around my engine for 15 mins, looked at the service manual, etc... but to no avail.
Any info, input, help or ideas are GREATLY appreciated.
We don't want to lose another SC... heck she's almost a "classic"
The alternator went bad on it, so I replaced it. After this, the car started up and ran fine... except for the fact that the battery now wouldn't hold a charge. Since this is not my daily driver, I did not get a new battery for almost a month and the car just sat in my parking lot for 20-30 days or so.
A few days ago I went to get a new battery (so new battery and new alternator, both working), and now the car will crank but not turn over / start up
As I mentioned, nothing was wrong with the car or the way it ran prior to this alternator / battery replacement. I know letting it sit for a month didn't do it any favors either...
So from all of the threads I've read here on CL I assume that since she cranks well, it must be:
1. No Gas getting to the engine
2. No spark
3. Bad timing belt
(3) I will be taking the timing belt cover off to visually check this; however, it seems super unlikely since... how would my t-belt just break while the car was sitting around not running.
(2) I've read how to check for a spark and will be doing this, along with visually checking out the distributor cap and rotor.
** (1) I am reading that I can check for gas by finding a "valve that looks like a bike tire air valve" and depressing this while I try to crank the car. The only issue is that I cannot, for the life of me, find this darn thing. Does anyone know the location of this? I've looked around my engine for 15 mins, looked at the service manual, etc... but to no avail.
- Is there anything else I am neglecting to check?
- Could it be bad battery cables or connectors even though it cranks just fine? The radio, air, lights etc all work just fine.
- When I turn the key to the on position, from inside the car, I don't really hear the fuel pump turning on... but since I've never dealt with this, I am not sure what I am listening for. Can I hear it from inside the car or do I need to be in the trunk?
- Any grounds or anything that I should look at?
Any info, input, help or ideas are GREATLY appreciated.
We don't want to lose another SC... heck she's almost a "classic"
07-06-12, 09:13 AM
#3
Thanks! I appreciate any advice / 2 cents anyone can give me.
Just want to get my girl fixed.
I'll give this a shot today and update results in the thread.
I'm also going to do the spark plug test this afternoon.
The one main question I do still have is how to find the "valve" that I can test to see if fuel sprays out. That's one elusive / well hidden ****
Just want to get my girl fixed.
I'll give this a shot today and update results in the thread.
I'm also going to do the spark plug test this afternoon.
The one main question I do still have is how to find the "valve" that I can test to see if fuel sprays out. That's one elusive / well hidden ****
07-06-12, 10:10 AM
#4
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Wow sorry to hear that dude, ok here's the best best...simple...did you check the ignitors/coil packs? our car has 2 of them, 2 for each half of the engine 1 coil = 4 cylinders, so test it this way, unplug one coil, see if she wants, to start, if it does that coil is good! but check the other one (test them once at a time) if she doesn't wanna crank, it's a defective coil pack!!! hope that helps, just my 2cents if thats worth anything to ya :P
07-06-12, 10:13 AM
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Rogers is talking about his sc400, not sc300. The 300 has one igniter, which is on the driver's side wheel well, and one ignition coil, which is on the pass. side wheel well....Yes, check for spark. take the wire from the coil off the distributor. Hold the wire close to a metal surface and see if you have a spark while cranking. Wear gloves and maybe hold it with some pliers, I grounded this thing a couple of times and it gives quite the shock. If that is good check each plug wire doing the same thing....Not all models/years have a test plug on the rail for a fuel check, my 96 300 does not have one.
07-06-12, 12:31 PM
#7
Could this be battery terminal connectors?
I just looked at mine and they are super corroded... bad.
That said, my car seems to get full power. Headlights, windows, seats, radio etc... all without a problem. And it cranks pretty hard every time I try to start it.
Could the terminal connectors be so nasty that it could power everything else but not give enough juice to turn the car over? That would be a cheap fix.
PS. Timing belt was 100% fine.
I just looked at mine and they are super corroded... bad.
That said, my car seems to get full power. Headlights, windows, seats, radio etc... all without a problem. And it cranks pretty hard every time I try to start it.
Could the terminal connectors be so nasty that it could power everything else but not give enough juice to turn the car over? That would be a cheap fix.
PS. Timing belt was 100% fine.
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07-06-12, 12:36 PM
#8
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On the SC's there is an extra thick gauge wire that comes out of the fuse box that is for a main starter power. Make sure you have that hooked up to battery positive as well. It's easily missed sometimes.
07-06-12, 12:49 PM
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Go back and check all your connections on the alternator and batt. There are two sets of wires going to the alt. make sure you have both of them connected. Wire brush those batt. connectors. Make sure your grounds are free of corrosion and connected properly. It was running before so go back and re-check what you did that is different.
07-06-12, 01:24 PM
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hey yes sorry to confuse thanks for the correction!
yes correct, thanks for helping me correct that and helping out sunny, fully went past me, when i come on the sc400 forums i assume it's all sc4's even though it clearly states sc400/sc300! thanks!
Hey sorry sunny about that, it fully went passed me when saying that!!! sorry man to get you confuzed i fully forgot your car has a different engine than the stock 1uz v8 in the sc400! sorry about that, please keep us posted and hopefully we can get you going!
Rogers is talking about his sc400, not sc300. The 300 has one igniter, which is on the driver's side wheel well, and one ignition coil, which is on the pass. side wheel well....Yes, check for spark. take the wire from the coil off the distributor. Hold the wire close to a metal surface and see if you have a spark while cranking. Wear gloves and maybe hold it with some pliers, I grounded this thing a couple of times and it gives quite the shock. If that is good check each plug wire doing the same thing....Not all models/years have a test plug on the rail for a fuel check, my 96 300 does not have one.
Hey sorry sunny about that, it fully went passed me when saying that!!! sorry man to get you confuzed i fully forgot your car has a different engine than the stock 1uz v8 in the sc400! sorry about that, please keep us posted and hopefully we can get you going!
07-06-12, 05:22 PM
#11
- I checked the timing belt ... looks good.
- I checked every damn fuse in the car... all good.
- I super cleaned and tightened the battery terminal connectors and ground... Good.
- I've checked the alternator ground and connections... nice and tight.
I've pulled one plug wire but am waiting on a buddy with a plug socket to take it out and test for spark.
Still not really sure how to test for fuel, based on the tools I have at my disposal (no fuel pressure checker, etc).
The odd thing to me is that after I changed the alternator and put in a new battery, the car easily started and ran fine. From that point on NOTHING was changed or touched on the car. It literally didn't move. It sat in the parking lot for 30 days and now it won't start.
Obviously it's likely spark or fuel... but I just wonder how or why anything would randomly go bad on the car while it was just hanging out for a few weeks not being used. Ie., if I was driving it I could see the fuel pump just going out or timing belt breaking. But it wasn't even cranked once since it was working flawlessly (flawlessly for a 1994 car that is
)
07-06-12, 07:35 PM
#12
In addition to checking all the fire triangle stuff I will add something simple to check:
Your EFI fuse in the engine bay fuse box. (It is aluminum and circular) I suppose it could have decided to kick the bucket. There is another one in the DEF slot on the row closest to the driver. You can at least swap them and see if that's the issue.
Only other solution I've had to similar issues has been a ground/wire corrosion.
Help more if I can.
Slappy
Your EFI fuse in the engine bay fuse box. (It is aluminum and circular) I suppose it could have decided to kick the bucket. There is another one in the DEF slot on the row closest to the driver. You can at least swap them and see if that's the issue.
Only other solution I've had to similar issues has been a ground/wire corrosion.
Help more if I can.
Slappy
07-06-12, 09:32 PM
#13
In addition to checking all the fire triangle stuff I will add something simple to check:
Your EFI fuse in the engine bay fuse box. (It is aluminum and circular) I suppose it could have decided to kick the bucket. There is another one in the DEF slot on the row closest to the driver. You can at least swap them and see if that's the issue.
Only other solution I've had to similar issues has been a ground/wire corrosion.
Help more if I can.
Slappy
Your EFI fuse in the engine bay fuse box. (It is aluminum and circular) I suppose it could have decided to kick the bucket. There is another one in the DEF slot on the row closest to the driver. You can at least swap them and see if that's the issue.
Only other solution I've had to similar issues has been a ground/wire corrosion.
Help more if I can.
Slappy
Quick question though... Are you referring to the EFI Relay? I see an EFI fuse #21 (it's a 30 fuse), which is fine. But it's not aluminum and circular.
Just to make sure I understand, you're talking about :
If so, How do you remove it? I'm sure I can figure it out, but I've never tried so I figured I'd ask
07-06-12, 10:54 PM
#14
Yes, good point. I'm losing my touch with detail...
The EFI relay is what I meant. It just pulls straight out (may be plastic hooks to bend away from the base to pull free) When I built my GTE I pulled the relay the day I first cranked it to circulate oil to the new turbos and motor as I cranked and it prevents ignition for obvious reasons. I'm sure you've checked the EFI fuse as well.
I could only speculate something new because you mentioned alternator, battery, spark, checking grounds (there are many but I don't suppose you disturbed all them for an alternator change)
One final stab here. Should be unrelated to the alternator change, but the scenario where I had the exact same symptoms ended up being the ground that bolts on to the intake plenum / runner. That prevented the injectors from working and is not easily diagnosed due to fuel still being in the rail.
Keep plugging.
The EFI relay is what I meant. It just pulls straight out (may be plastic hooks to bend away from the base to pull free) When I built my GTE I pulled the relay the day I first cranked it to circulate oil to the new turbos and motor as I cranked and it prevents ignition for obvious reasons. I'm sure you've checked the EFI fuse as well.
I could only speculate something new because you mentioned alternator, battery, spark, checking grounds (there are many but I don't suppose you disturbed all them for an alternator change)
One final stab here. Should be unrelated to the alternator change, but the scenario where I had the exact same symptoms ended up being the ground that bolts on to the intake plenum / runner. That prevented the injectors from working and is not easily diagnosed due to fuel still being in the rail.
Keep plugging.
Last edited by slappy96; 07-06-12 at 10:57 PM. Reason: fuse removal
07-07-12, 10:34 AM
#15
OK OK... me and a buddy got her to fired up! It's a start.
A good amount of white smoke came out of the exhaust, but I'm pretty sure it was just starter fluid burning off.
First we took out a spark plug and got a spark, so that was all good.
Next we took off the intake and sprayed Starter Fluid into the throttle.
It wouldn't turn over at first, but we gave it a good three sprays and I basically had to go full open throttle, but it did finally turn over... then died after about 5 seconds. We waited 30 mins and got it to fire up again, using the same method, for another 5-10 seconds.
Does 5-10 seconds sound about right for a start using starter fluid?
So my problem is the engine not getting fuel. Right?
Since it did turn over, I can rule out anything related to the battery, connections, fuses, starter, spark, etc... Correct?
Am I correct in assuming the next on the list should be:
Fuel filter and fuel pump?
Am I missing anything.
Thanks again too for all the help!! I owe everyone who posted in here a pizza for sure
A good amount of white smoke came out of the exhaust, but I'm pretty sure it was just starter fluid burning off.
First we took out a spark plug and got a spark, so that was all good.
Next we took off the intake and sprayed Starter Fluid into the throttle.
It wouldn't turn over at first, but we gave it a good three sprays and I basically had to go full open throttle, but it did finally turn over... then died after about 5 seconds. We waited 30 mins and got it to fire up again, using the same method, for another 5-10 seconds.
Does 5-10 seconds sound about right for a start using starter fluid?
So my problem is the engine not getting fuel. Right?
Since it did turn over, I can rule out anything related to the battery, connections, fuses, starter, spark, etc... Correct?
Am I correct in assuming the next on the list should be:
Fuel filter and fuel pump?
Am I missing anything.
Thanks again too for all the help!! I owe everyone who posted in here a pizza for sure