My aristo/Sc300 base dyno
05-22-09, 08:00 PM
#1
My aristo/Sc300 base dyno
Hey all had some time to toss the SC3 up on my dyno last sunday, spare time is very rare for me these days. made 4 pulls and on the 4th the clutch **** the bed 
stage 3 spec clutch, was a POS!
anyways the car has the TTC conversion done on it, 3 inch D/P, FMIC, and an SAFC boost was approximately 14-15psi as I dont have a BCC on the car yet, had some trouble deciphering the wiring, although I guess it should be done the same as a supra( as in manipulating the TPS sensor and not the MAP)
I was very please with the results
stage 3 spec clutch, was a POS!anyways the car has the TTC conversion done on it, 3 inch D/P, FMIC, and an SAFC boost was approximately 14-15psi as I dont have a BCC on the car yet, had some trouble deciphering the wiring, although I guess it should be done the same as a supra( as in manipulating the TPS sensor and not the MAP)
I was very please with the results
05-23-09, 01:57 PM
#4
I'll be hitting the dyno soon Mike and will probably get similar numbers to you unless the auto tranny robs me hard.Theres a faq on floridasupras on the jdm ecu pinouts and i wanna say the BCC wiring is the same as us TT supras but i havent double checked.
05-23-09, 04:21 PM
#5
Thanks for the info, its gonna be much needed as I wont be switching over to AEM for a few months and want to do some stock ecu/SAFC tuning just for fun till the TH400 goes in and then it will be time to do some serious work.
Turbo manifold came in today, ordering the new turbo on tuesday, shouldnt be but a few weeks and she will be seeing some better numbers
Turbo manifold came in today, ordering the new turbo on tuesday, shouldnt be but a few weeks and she will be seeing some better numbers
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05-23-09, 09:03 PM
#8
Hey all had some time to toss the SC3 up on my dyno last sunday, spare time is very rare for me these days. made 4 pulls and on the 4th the clutch **** the bed stage 3 spec clutch, was a POS!
anyways the car has the TTC conversion done on it, 3 inch D/P, FMIC, and an SAFC boost was approximately 14-15psi as I dont have a BCC on the car yet, had some trouble deciphering the wiring, although I guess it should be done the same as a supra( as in manipulating the TPS sensor and not the MAP)
\
stage 3 spec clutch, was a POS!anyways the car has the TTC conversion done on it, 3 inch D/P, FMIC, and an SAFC boost was approximately 14-15psi as I dont have a BCC on the car yet, had some trouble deciphering the wiring, although I guess it should be done the same as a supra( as in manipulating the TPS sensor and not the MAP)
\
im not sure where you got the wiring info from but the bcc cuts into the map sensor wire. it clamps the voltage the map sensor sees. the cut is activated when the map voltage greater than 4.3v. maybe you can mess with the tps to change the map sensor voltage but i never read that when i did mine.
also the safc does not work with the bbc. those cannot work with each other because both tap into the map sensor wire to the ecu. both units require the interception of the map voltage to alter "boost cut OR fuel adjustment"
the voltage the ecu reads from the map gives a certain fuel and timing table. if it passes through the bcc to clamp voltage at the max (4.3v) and you are still running lean, you cannot adjust fuel. if you daisy chain the after the bcc from the map (map-->bcc-->safc-->ecu) it will clamp at 4.3v, then give the maps for that... if youre lean you try to adjust the safc by adding (upping the voltage) then inturn the ecu will read more than 4.3 and then boost cut will activate.
if you do it the other way around (map-->safc-->bcc-->ecu)you can adjust however you like... and in the end it will pass through the bcc and clamp it back down to 4.3v making no changes at all.
only way you can use the safc is if you are running way to rich all the time and all you want to do is lean it out (getting larger injectors). doing this drops the voltage under boost cut levels because you are trying to lean it out and you will still have enough fuel (or too much still if the injectors are too large)
this is bad because your ignition timing tables will be off... where you have alot of boost and high rpms its giving the low end aggressive timing tables because it sees low voltage (as it does when you begin to accelerate)
but heres is what i used and many other map based gte cars used for the wiring
http://mkiv.com/techarticles/bcc/bcc.../bcc_intro.htm
Last edited by booja; 05-23-09 at 09:11 PM.
05-24-09, 01:38 PM
#10
are you map based or maf? from your previous posts it seems like your map based... if your maf disregard everything after this
im not sure where you got the wiring info from but the bcc cuts into the map sensor wire. it clamps the voltage the map sensor sees. the cut is activated when the map voltage greater than 4.3v. maybe you can mess with the tps to change the map sensor voltage but i never read that when i did mine.
also the safc does not work with the bbc. those cannot work with each other because both tap into the map sensor wire to the ecu. both units require the interception of the map voltage to alter "boost cut OR fuel adjustment"
the voltage the ecu reads from the map gives a certain fuel and timing table. if it passes through the bcc to clamp voltage at the max (4.3v) and you are still running lean, you cannot adjust fuel. if you daisy chain the after the bcc from the map (map-->bcc-->safc-->ecu) it will clamp at 4.3v, then give the maps for that... if youre lean you try to adjust the safc by adding (upping the voltage) then inturn the ecu will read more than 4.3 and then boost cut will activate.
if you do it the other way around (map-->safc-->bcc-->ecu)you can adjust however you like... and in the end it will pass through the bcc and clamp it back down to 4.3v making no changes at all.
only way you can use the safc is if you are running way to rich all the time and all you want to do is lean it out (getting larger injectors). doing this drops the voltage under boost cut levels because you are trying to lean it out and you will still have enough fuel (or too much still if the injectors are too large)
this is bad because your ignition timing tables will be off... where you have alot of boost and high rpms its giving the low end aggressive timing tables because it sees low voltage (as it does when you begin to accelerate)
but heres is what i used and many other map based gte cars used for the wiring
http://mkiv.com/techarticles/bcc/bcc.../bcc_intro.htm
im not sure where you got the wiring info from but the bcc cuts into the map sensor wire. it clamps the voltage the map sensor sees. the cut is activated when the map voltage greater than 4.3v. maybe you can mess with the tps to change the map sensor voltage but i never read that when i did mine.
also the safc does not work with the bbc. those cannot work with each other because both tap into the map sensor wire to the ecu. both units require the interception of the map voltage to alter "boost cut OR fuel adjustment"
the voltage the ecu reads from the map gives a certain fuel and timing table. if it passes through the bcc to clamp voltage at the max (4.3v) and you are still running lean, you cannot adjust fuel. if you daisy chain the after the bcc from the map (map-->bcc-->safc-->ecu) it will clamp at 4.3v, then give the maps for that... if youre lean you try to adjust the safc by adding (upping the voltage) then inturn the ecu will read more than 4.3 and then boost cut will activate.
if you do it the other way around (map-->safc-->bcc-->ecu)you can adjust however you like... and in the end it will pass through the bcc and clamp it back down to 4.3v making no changes at all.
only way you can use the safc is if you are running way to rich all the time and all you want to do is lean it out (getting larger injectors). doing this drops the voltage under boost cut levels because you are trying to lean it out and you will still have enough fuel (or too much still if the injectors are too large)
this is bad because your ignition timing tables will be off... where you have alot of boost and high rpms its giving the low end aggressive timing tables because it sees low voltage (as it does when you begin to accelerate)
but heres is what i used and many other map based gte cars used for the wiring
http://mkiv.com/techarticles/bcc/bcc.../bcc_intro.htm
Thanks for the info, yes that is the same link I followed when I looked into puttin in the BCC in my car,
in the first paragraph it speaks about the TPS and TPS V signals which confused me just a tad quoted here:
As the turbo pressure sensor (TPS) on the TT Supra sees increase boost, it sends an increased voltage (V) on to the ECU. When typical stock boost level is exceeded, the higher TPS V signal causes the ECU to invoke Fuel Cut; this prohibits excess boost. The BCC is simply placed in the middle of this wire from the TPS to the ECU. At peak-stock and lower boost levels, the BCC passes unaltered stock V signals on to the ECU. As stock boost levels are exceeded, the BCC inputs the too-high V signal from the TPS, but limits its output V to the ECU to peak-stock level. Fuel cut is now not invoked at over-stock boost.
So you can see where I was coming from on the install questions. My next question would be why can we not use some sort of resistor or cap to cut voltage back on the lead signal wire just by placing it inline? why do we have to spend 75 bucks on a BBC, or not just make a potentiometer from radioshack or something of the sort?
Funny thing is, is that nowhere does it ever mention anything about JDM MAP based install. So why do we point everyone to that site?
This is why USDM supras are able to still use an SAFC and still run the BCC as it is used on thier TPS wire, has anyone tried to hook it up this way on a JDM motor?
05-25-09, 09:23 AM
#12
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Thanks for the info, yes that is the same link I followed when I looked into puttin in the BCC in my car,
in the first paragraph it speaks about the TPS and TPS V signals which confused me just a tad quoted here:
As the turbo pressure sensor (TPS) on the TT Supra sees increase boost, it sends an increased voltage (V) on to the ECU. When typical stock boost level is exceeded, the higher TPS V signal causes the ECU to invoke Fuel Cut; this prohibits excess boost. The BCC is simply placed in the middle of this wire from the TPS to the ECU. At peak-stock and lower boost levels, the BCC passes unaltered stock V signals on to the ECU. As stock boost levels are exceeded, the BCC inputs the too-high V signal from the TPS, but limits its output V to the ECU to peak-stock level. Fuel cut is now not invoked at over-stock boost.
So you can see where I was coming from on the install questions. My next question would be why can we not use some sort of resistor or cap to cut voltage back on the lead signal wire just by placing it inline? why do we have to spend 75 bucks on a BBC, or not just make a potentiometer from radioshack or something of the sort?
Funny thing is, is that nowhere does it ever mention anything about JDM MAP based install. So why do we point everyone to that site?
This is why USDM supras are able to still use an SAFC and still run the BCC as it is used on thier TPS wire, has anyone tried to hook it up this way on a JDM motor?
in the first paragraph it speaks about the TPS and TPS V signals which confused me just a tad quoted here:
As the turbo pressure sensor (TPS) on the TT Supra sees increase boost, it sends an increased voltage (V) on to the ECU. When typical stock boost level is exceeded, the higher TPS V signal causes the ECU to invoke Fuel Cut; this prohibits excess boost. The BCC is simply placed in the middle of this wire from the TPS to the ECU. At peak-stock and lower boost levels, the BCC passes unaltered stock V signals on to the ECU. As stock boost levels are exceeded, the BCC inputs the too-high V signal from the TPS, but limits its output V to the ECU to peak-stock level. Fuel cut is now not invoked at over-stock boost.
So you can see where I was coming from on the install questions. My next question would be why can we not use some sort of resistor or cap to cut voltage back on the lead signal wire just by placing it inline? why do we have to spend 75 bucks on a BBC, or not just make a potentiometer from radioshack or something of the sort?
Funny thing is, is that nowhere does it ever mention anything about JDM MAP based install. So why do we point everyone to that site?
This is why USDM supras are able to still use an SAFC and still run the BCC as it is used on thier TPS wire, has anyone tried to hook it up this way on a JDM motor?
Very interested in this solution. Will the hks FCD interfere with the same signal? I've been reading around and some say that the fcd is the way to go with map based cars.
05-25-09, 09:20 PM
#13
Thanks for the info, yes that is the same link I followed when I looked into puttin in the BCC in my car,
in the first paragraph it speaks about the TPS and TPS V signals which confused me just a tad quoted here:
As the turbo pressure sensor (TPS) on the TT Supra sees increase boost, it sends an increased voltage (V) on to the ECU. When typical stock boost level is exceeded, the higher TPS V signal causes the ECU to invoke Fuel Cut; this prohibits excess boost. The BCC is simply placed in the middle of this wire from the TPS to the ECU. At peak-stock and lower boost levels, the BCC passes unaltered stock V signals on to the ECU. As stock boost levels are exceeded, the BCC inputs the too-high V signal from the TPS, but limits its output V to the ECU to peak-stock level. Fuel cut is now not invoked at over-stock boost.
So you can see where I was coming from on the install questions. My next question would be why can we not use some sort of resistor or cap to cut voltage back on the lead signal wire just by placing it inline? why do we have to spend 75 bucks on a BBC, or not just make a potentiometer from radioshack or something of the sort?
Funny thing is, is that nowhere does it ever mention anything about JDM MAP based install. So why do we point everyone to that site?
This is why USDM supras are able to still use an SAFC and still run the BCC as it is used on thier TPS wire, has anyone tried to hook it up this way on a JDM motor?
in the first paragraph it speaks about the TPS and TPS V signals which confused me just a tad quoted here:
As the turbo pressure sensor (TPS) on the TT Supra sees increase boost, it sends an increased voltage (V) on to the ECU. When typical stock boost level is exceeded, the higher TPS V signal causes the ECU to invoke Fuel Cut; this prohibits excess boost. The BCC is simply placed in the middle of this wire from the TPS to the ECU. At peak-stock and lower boost levels, the BCC passes unaltered stock V signals on to the ECU. As stock boost levels are exceeded, the BCC inputs the too-high V signal from the TPS, but limits its output V to the ECU to peak-stock level. Fuel cut is now not invoked at over-stock boost.
So you can see where I was coming from on the install questions. My next question would be why can we not use some sort of resistor or cap to cut voltage back on the lead signal wire just by placing it inline? why do we have to spend 75 bucks on a BBC, or not just make a potentiometer from radioshack or something of the sort?
Funny thing is, is that nowhere does it ever mention anything about JDM MAP based install. So why do we point everyone to that site?
This is why USDM supras are able to still use an SAFC and still run the BCC as it is used on thier TPS wire, has anyone tried to hook it up this way on a JDM motor?
both the US cars and jdm cars have boost cut set up the same way... they both read off the turbo pressure signal (map sensor... or according to them the "tps"). im not sure what they are talking about the tps signal, the throttle reading comes from pin 43 which is up and to the left of the wire that bcc guide tells you to wire to (pressure/map sensor). the US cars or MAF based cars can also eliminate boost cut by capping off the bottom (i think it was the bottom one)port of the pressure/map sensor. by doing this the ecu does not read any pressure what so ever so there is never a cut. you cant do this on the map cars... ill explain below.
on MAF based US cars, the MAF does the mapping and fueling, so capping the MAP/pressure sensor off or reducing the voltage to the ecu does not affect the way the car runs at all. the pressure/map sensor on US cars was basically just used for boost cut. the jdm ecu/map based cars run all the mapping off the map/pressure sensor.
the SAFC works on US cars along side with the BCC because the wiring of the AFC taps into the maf wires instead the map (i think they tap into the map too but just for logging) it adjusts the voltage coming from the maf to adjust the fuel and ignition maps i believe. with the jdm ecu and map cars both afc and bcc tap into the pressure signal, when doing this the problem i explained above arises.
ive tried many different ways with mine and ended up selling my afc. you can try capping off the pressure signal like the US cars and youll notice your car will idle like crap... but the US cars run fine. i have even left everything the same in my car (boost settings) and adjusted the voltage reading from the bcc box. when i lowered the voltage from inside the box my car ran more lean. 12-13 afr. as i raised the voltage closer to 4.3 (rich fuel maps with more voltage) my car dipped into the 10's.
the bcc keeps all voltage values the same until it reaches that threshold you set... once reached it just keeps it there so you do not reach the boost cut.
on mkiv.com they also explain the difference between the 2... they said after testing the bcc was better and more safe
