Can't decide on rods to save my life!
02-04-09, 04:54 PM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
Can't decide on rods to save my life!
I am blessed with the VVTi bottom end
, which is disastrous when combined with boost. Now i decided to drop in a built block as some of you know. I decided to pass on the GTE internals since i wanna bore out the block, and might as well build it since it's apart. Now i chose Mahle pistons to hug my cylinder walls. But i'm in the world of hurt trying to decide which rods to go with:
1) Carrillo's are well known in the Supra community, But they're also 1500 +bucks
2) Pauter rods are also popular, and they're about 1200
3) Crower's need no introduction, and they're similar to pauters in price
I wanna cap at 700 WHP, with occasional Road Racing tracking, so indurance and resistance to fatigue is vital.
What do you guys think? which rods should i go with and why?
, which is disastrous when combined with boost. Now i decided to drop in a built block as some of you know. I decided to pass on the GTE internals since i wanna bore out the block, and might as well build it since it's apart. Now i chose Mahle pistons to hug my cylinder walls. But i'm in the world of hurt trying to decide which rods to go with:1) Carrillo's are well known in the Supra community, But they're also 1500 +bucks
2) Pauter rods are also popular, and they're about 1200
3) Crower's need no introduction, and they're similar to pauters in price
I wanna cap at 700 WHP, with occasional Road Racing tracking, so indurance and resistance to fatigue is vital.
What do you guys think? which rods should i go with and why?
02-04-09, 05:17 PM
#2
my choice is eagle, thats what i'm going to order in a few weeks, 450 bucks from titan they are forged and shot peened, made of 4340 Chromoly they have arp bolts to fasten the rod ends and they are x-rayed and magnafluxed to make sure no cracks are there they are supposedly good to 800hp too. any other rod set will cost about a grand
02-04-09, 07:38 PM
#3
my choice is eagle, thats what i'm going to order in a few weeks, 450 bucks from titan they are forged and shot peened, made of 4340 Chromoly they have arp bolts to fasten the rod ends and they are x-rayed and magnafluxed to make sure no cracks are there they are supposedly good to 800hp too. any other rod set will cost about a grand
450 for the set ?? That sounds pretty good
02-05-09, 12:29 PM
#6
there was already a thread on SF about rod choices and why one design or company would be more desirable then another.
road racing at 6000rpm and making 400hp will take more toll on your rods then a rod that is in a motor that mostly sees street use, with cruising, and some dyno pulls and makes 800hp
basically the eagle rods would work if you dont really drive your car and once in a while do a few pulls just to show off. if you want something that will last then get something that has a proven name. my choices have always been carillo or crower. pauter are nice to work with since their customer service is awesome. they wait time is not bad either compared to others and it is a lot easier to order even custom rods from them.
it is not the hp but rather the rpm and rod/stroke ration that will play the big role in rod life. the type of loads the rods will see can and will be in the 1000's of G's. a rod does not fail in compression unless it is horrendous material or assembly failure. rods mostly will fail in tension ie on the way up the bore on the exhaust stroke before tdc. the rod will get stretched a lot since the weight of the piston will want to keep moving up and up and up. the rod has to withstand that stress. since an IC engine is a dynamic environment with constantly changing loads during the cycle the rod goes through fatigue stress. fatigue will kill a part at low loads a lot faster then high loads at small frequency intervals.
think of a piece of wire or a coat hanger. if you take the metal hanger and bend it very fast and hard once or a few times it will mostly likely just bend or worst case if its a plastic or brittle material it will fracture fail. on the other hand take that same coat hanger and apply a smaller but a much frequent bending load. after a while the wire will blister in the point of stress and break.
check this thread.
http://www.supraforums.com/forum/sho...ight=eagle+rod
i posted in it along with SupraRunner. if you want to make a shrapnel grenade out of your motor on a road coarse then get the eagle rods
road racing at 6000rpm and making 400hp will take more toll on your rods then a rod that is in a motor that mostly sees street use, with cruising, and some dyno pulls and makes 800hp
basically the eagle rods would work if you dont really drive your car and once in a while do a few pulls just to show off. if you want something that will last then get something that has a proven name. my choices have always been carillo or crower. pauter are nice to work with since their customer service is awesome. they wait time is not bad either compared to others and it is a lot easier to order even custom rods from them.
it is not the hp but rather the rpm and rod/stroke ration that will play the big role in rod life. the type of loads the rods will see can and will be in the 1000's of G's. a rod does not fail in compression unless it is horrendous material or assembly failure. rods mostly will fail in tension ie on the way up the bore on the exhaust stroke before tdc. the rod will get stretched a lot since the weight of the piston will want to keep moving up and up and up. the rod has to withstand that stress. since an IC engine is a dynamic environment with constantly changing loads during the cycle the rod goes through fatigue stress. fatigue will kill a part at low loads a lot faster then high loads at small frequency intervals.
think of a piece of wire or a coat hanger. if you take the metal hanger and bend it very fast and hard once or a few times it will mostly likely just bend or worst case if its a plastic or brittle material it will fracture fail. on the other hand take that same coat hanger and apply a smaller but a much frequent bending load. after a while the wire will blister in the point of stress and break.
check this thread.
http://www.supraforums.com/forum/sho...ight=eagle+rod
i posted in it along with SupraRunner. if you want to make a shrapnel grenade out of your motor on a road coarse then get the eagle rods
02-05-09, 03:41 PM
#7
Instructor
Thread Starter
there was already a thread on SF about rod choices and why one design or company would be more desirable then another.
road racing at 6000rpm and making 400hp will take more toll on your rods then a rod that is in a motor that mostly sees street use, with cruising, and some dyno pulls and makes 800hp
basically the eagle rods would work if you dont really drive your car and once in a while do a few pulls just to show off. if you want something that will last then get something that has a proven name. my choices have always been carillo or crower. pauter are nice to work with since their customer service is awesome. they wait time is not bad either compared to others and it is a lot easier to order even custom rods from them.
it is not the hp but rather the rpm and rod/stroke ration that will play the big role in rod life. the type of loads the rods will see can and will be in the 1000's of G's. a rod does not fail in compression unless it is horrendous material or assembly failure. rods mostly will fail in tension ie on the way up the bore on the exhaust stroke before tdc. the rod will get stretched a lot since the weight of the piston will want to keep moving up and up and up. the rod has to withstand that stress. since an IC engine is a dynamic environment with constantly changing loads during the cycle the rod goes through fatigue stress. fatigue will kill a part at low loads a lot faster then high loads at small frequency intervals.
think of a piece of wire or a coat hanger. if you take the metal hanger and bend it very fast and hard once or a few times it will mostly likely just bend or worst case if its a plastic or brittle material it will fracture fail. on the other hand take that same coat hanger and apply a smaller but a much frequent bending load. after a while the wire will blister in the point of stress and break.
check this thread.
http://www.supraforums.com/forum/sho...ight=eagle+rod
i posted in it along with SupraRunner. if you want to make a shrapnel grenade out of your motor on a road coarse then get the eagle rods
road racing at 6000rpm and making 400hp will take more toll on your rods then a rod that is in a motor that mostly sees street use, with cruising, and some dyno pulls and makes 800hp
basically the eagle rods would work if you dont really drive your car and once in a while do a few pulls just to show off. if you want something that will last then get something that has a proven name. my choices have always been carillo or crower. pauter are nice to work with since their customer service is awesome. they wait time is not bad either compared to others and it is a lot easier to order even custom rods from them.
it is not the hp but rather the rpm and rod/stroke ration that will play the big role in rod life. the type of loads the rods will see can and will be in the 1000's of G's. a rod does not fail in compression unless it is horrendous material or assembly failure. rods mostly will fail in tension ie on the way up the bore on the exhaust stroke before tdc. the rod will get stretched a lot since the weight of the piston will want to keep moving up and up and up. the rod has to withstand that stress. since an IC engine is a dynamic environment with constantly changing loads during the cycle the rod goes through fatigue stress. fatigue will kill a part at low loads a lot faster then high loads at small frequency intervals.
think of a piece of wire or a coat hanger. if you take the metal hanger and bend it very fast and hard once or a few times it will mostly likely just bend or worst case if its a plastic or brittle material it will fracture fail. on the other hand take that same coat hanger and apply a smaller but a much frequent bending load. after a while the wire will blister in the point of stress and break.
check this thread.
http://www.supraforums.com/forum/sho...ight=eagle+rod
i posted in it along with SupraRunner. if you want to make a shrapnel grenade out of your motor on a road coarse then get the eagle rods
Alright mr. pebbles
thnx for th info, i'm pretty much decided on Carrillo's. Any difference between the 1500 ones and 1700 ones? they say heavy duty! Also, are Mahle pistons supposed to e the lightest pistons out there?
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02-05-09, 11:14 PM
#8
the price difference on the carillo rods might be due to the CARR rod bolts that is an option. they are probably the best upgrade you can make to any rod. now i dont know about 200 difference but i think 100 is about right. whoever you buy them from ask if the extra 200 is for CARR bolts.
when you get the rods make sure to borrow or invest into a stretch gauge to torque down the rod bolts. dont use a torque setting. use a stretch setting. i think its about 0.007" depending on the rod.
i dont know if mahle is the lightest piston our there. im sure you can find out if you call a distributor. mahle are really good as far as expansion control, thus you can run tighter wall tolerances without issues.
when you get the rods make sure to borrow or invest into a stretch gauge to torque down the rod bolts. dont use a torque setting. use a stretch setting. i think its about 0.007" depending on the rod.
i dont know if mahle is the lightest piston our there. im sure you can find out if you call a distributor. mahle are really good as far as expansion control, thus you can run tighter wall tolerances without issues.
02-06-09, 06:59 AM
#9
Instructor
Thread Starter
the price difference on the carillo rods might be due to the CARR rod bolts that is an option. they are probably the best upgrade you can make to any rod. now i dont know about 200 difference but i think 100 is about right. whoever you buy them from ask if the extra 200 is for CARR bolts.
when you get the rods make sure to borrow or invest into a stretch gauge to torque down the rod bolts. dont use a torque setting. use a stretch setting. i think its about 0.007" depending on the rod.
i dont know if mahle is the lightest piston our there. im sure you can find out if you call a distributor. mahle are really good as far as expansion control, thus you can run tighter wall tolerances without issues.
when you get the rods make sure to borrow or invest into a stretch gauge to torque down the rod bolts. dont use a torque setting. use a stretch setting. i think its about 0.007" depending on the rod.
i dont know if mahle is the lightest piston our there. im sure you can find out if you call a distributor. mahle are really good as far as expansion control, thus you can run tighter wall tolerances without issues.
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