R154 clutch vs w58 clutch.. same? (tran swap)
05-31-08, 05:34 PM
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R154 clutch vs w58 clutch.. same? (tran swap)
I have a 1jz with stock 92' w58, swapping to R154.
I read and researched in here and around that you need the 1jz flywheel and the R154 clutch set up.
Can I confirm the reasons for this, from my knowledge:
-For the clutch the teeth have to match the shaft from the tranny
-For the pressure plate the bolt pattern has to match the flywheel.
I have both trans and both their clutch set ups in front of me and have found that:
-The clutches are identical, completely interchangeable
-The pressureplates have different bolt patterns
My conclusion is since I already have the 2jzge flywheel on the 1jz engine(working fine with the w58), I can keep that setup with my w58 pressure plate, and continue to use my clutch that fits perfectly on the shaft and looks identical to my r154 clutch. Basically I know my w58 clutch setup will install on my r154.
1. My major question is does any one have a higher level of knowledge/experience as to why this wont work once the car is set into motion or you try to engage the clutch?
Answer "edited" 1. I just need to get the parts/clips and a 1jz flywheel. good news is I can still use my good w58 clutch. - Thanks Bean
I can only think of the in the off the wall direction of the clutch fork action not working with the pressure plate or something weird like that... everything seems to be in order, just figure most are changing from autos and it makes sense to go straight for the 1jz parts so thats why it is commonly misexpressed as you need 1jz flywheel/ clutch.
Just insight on why I want to use the w58 setup in case you are wondering, my w58 is a fairly new $450 clutch setup, and my r154 is a $250 setup to cut costs on this conversion, and I will have to purchase a 1jz flywheel for an additional $200 or whatever. So id ideally return the r154 setup and use my better one.
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2.Also why I am on the subject, can anyone confirm that the 92' SC w58 and the MKIII r154 shifter are the same? My r154 tran came without shifter and this fits and is "swan necked". (I know about the need to mod, but I need this info to help in the modification.)
Answer "edited" 2. Here - https://www.clublexus.com/forums/show...light=flywheel - Pretty much the same shifter but the supra one is slightly toward driver side to match console.. so better to use the earlier w58 (only 92 and 93 confirmed, 95 is confirmed that its not swan and its the external different shifter). - Thanks Craaaazy
3. From someone who has done this and knows(not read, sorry i read a lot of answers in the forums and i have my own measurements but would like confirmation since I'm already posting and found something strange in my measurements), what is the exact distance needed to extend the shifter lever if you use the stock R154 housing, and the early w58 swan shifter?
Answer "edited" 3. According to my measurements and craaazy's confirmation it is 1"
....for readers doing swap FYI Toyota Carson can no longer get the lever and housing Blizzy recommends, I was the first person to order and be told over a month later it wasn't coming, the part is discontinued in Japan, had to get refunded)...
Thanks all -
I read and researched in here and around that you need the 1jz flywheel and the R154 clutch set up.
Can I confirm the reasons for this, from my knowledge:
-For the clutch the teeth have to match the shaft from the tranny
-For the pressure plate the bolt pattern has to match the flywheel.
I have both trans and both their clutch set ups in front of me and have found that:
-The clutches are identical, completely interchangeable
-The pressureplates have different bolt patterns
My conclusion is since I already have the 2jzge flywheel on the 1jz engine(working fine with the w58), I can keep that setup with my w58 pressure plate, and continue to use my clutch that fits perfectly on the shaft and looks identical to my r154 clutch. Basically I know my w58 clutch setup will install on my r154.
1. My major question is does any one have a higher level of knowledge/experience as to why this wont work once the car is set into motion or you try to engage the clutch?
Answer "edited" 1. I just need to get the parts/clips and a 1jz flywheel. good news is I can still use my good w58 clutch. - Thanks Bean
I can only think of the in the off the wall direction of the clutch fork action not working with the pressure plate or something weird like that... everything seems to be in order, just figure most are changing from autos and it makes sense to go straight for the 1jz parts so thats why it is commonly misexpressed as you need 1jz flywheel/ clutch.
Just insight on why I want to use the w58 setup in case you are wondering, my w58 is a fairly new $450 clutch setup, and my r154 is a $250 setup to cut costs on this conversion, and I will have to purchase a 1jz flywheel for an additional $200 or whatever. So id ideally return the r154 setup and use my better one.
-----------
2.Also why I am on the subject, can anyone confirm that the 92' SC w58 and the MKIII r154 shifter are the same? My r154 tran came without shifter and this fits and is "swan necked". (I know about the need to mod, but I need this info to help in the modification.)
Answer "edited" 2. Here - https://www.clublexus.com/forums/show...light=flywheel - Pretty much the same shifter but the supra one is slightly toward driver side to match console.. so better to use the earlier w58 (only 92 and 93 confirmed, 95 is confirmed that its not swan and its the external different shifter). - Thanks Craaaazy
3. From someone who has done this and knows(not read, sorry i read a lot of answers in the forums and i have my own measurements but would like confirmation since I'm already posting and found something strange in my measurements), what is the exact distance needed to extend the shifter lever if you use the stock R154 housing, and the early w58 swan shifter?
Answer "edited" 3. According to my measurements and craaazy's confirmation it is 1"
....for readers doing swap FYI Toyota Carson can no longer get the lever and housing Blizzy recommends, I was the first person to order and be told over a month later it wasn't coming, the part is discontinued in Japan, had to get refunded)...
Thanks all -
Last edited by sc1jzgte; 06-01-08 at 09:30 AM. Reason: Answers found
05-31-08, 06:03 PM
#2
The R154 and W58 function fundamentally different. I can't remember which is which; but one is a pull style, the other is a push style. I think the W58 is a push style.
From what I know, the pressure plates look distinctly different. The R154 cannot be pulled off the engine until the pressure plate is disconnected from the flywheel; which is why it doesnt require an alignment tool.
Are you sure the pressure plates are identical? What about contact area with the disc?
Someone chime in here... I know for a fact the 2jz-gte's V160 tranny has a weird looking flywheel; and I thought the 1jz was the same.
From what I know, the pressure plates look distinctly different. The R154 cannot be pulled off the engine until the pressure plate is disconnected from the flywheel; which is why it doesnt require an alignment tool.
Are you sure the pressure plates are identical? What about contact area with the disc?
Someone chime in here... I know for a fact the 2jz-gte's V160 tranny has a weird looking flywheel; and I thought the 1jz was the same.
05-31-08, 06:15 PM
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Yes that is what I was looking for, the push or pull method, I was just researching that right now. Never knew there was a "pull method" I bought my R154 clutch kit off someone, and i didnt have anything, just bare housing.
I bought the tranny and bellhousing separate so am piecing those parts together. When I put the fork in, clip and cylinder I was all confused that I put it in wrong, because it went the wrong direction.... I also noticed the bevel of the pressure plates are different so I was assuming there was a way to pull it, but I still must be missing something like the clips etc. I have no parts that will attach the fork to the bearing.. But i guess that answers
1. I just need to get those parts/clips and a 1jz flywheel. good news is I can still use my nice w58 clutch. - Thanks Bean
2. Answer found here - https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...light=flywheel - Pretty much the same but the supra one is slightly toward driver side to match console.. so better to use the earlier w58 (only 92 and 93 confirmed, 95 is confirmed that its not swan and its the external different shifter, so ?94?). - Thanks Craaaazy
I bought the tranny and bellhousing separate so am piecing those parts together. When I put the fork in, clip and cylinder I was all confused that I put it in wrong, because it went the wrong direction.... I also noticed the bevel of the pressure plates are different so I was assuming there was a way to pull it, but I still must be missing something like the clips etc. I have no parts that will attach the fork to the bearing.. But i guess that answers
1. I just need to get those parts/clips and a 1jz flywheel. good news is I can still use my nice w58 clutch. - Thanks Bean
2. Answer found here - https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...light=flywheel - Pretty much the same but the supra one is slightly toward driver side to match console.. so better to use the earlier w58 (only 92 and 93 confirmed, 95 is confirmed that its not swan and its the external different shifter, so ?94?). - Thanks Craaaazy
Last edited by sc1jzgte; 05-31-08 at 07:08 PM.
05-31-08, 09:30 PM
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i know u can convert the r154 (which is pull style) to a push style. at least that's what i've read...people using dual or triple disc clutches. not quite sure that this will work on an r154 with a w58 clutch though (if so, this is quite interesting).
as for the 1jz flywheel, u don't necessarily need it. u can use the 2jz fly. the only thing u'll need to do is to have the flywheel drilled and threaded for the bolt pattern of the r154 pressure plate (or not if you confirmed the w58 clutch is indeed able to be used). but for $223 dollars, why not get a new flywheel, unless u recently just got a new one...
as for the 1jz flywheel, u don't necessarily need it. u can use the 2jz fly. the only thing u'll need to do is to have the flywheel drilled and threaded for the bolt pattern of the r154 pressure plate (or not if you confirmed the w58 clutch is indeed able to be used). but for $223 dollars, why not get a new flywheel, unless u recently just got a new one...
05-31-08, 10:02 PM
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Sounds like you are leaning towards the W58. I did alot of research on which transmission to use on my swap and the consensus was that the R154 was the better choice from what I gathered. It is stronger, gearing is more aggressive, and seems to hold power alot better than the W58, (longevity wise I mean). Here are some specs on it if you care to look:
Guess what I am trying to say is, if you have the transmission there and readily available, you might want to consider using it. If you plan on pushing any kind of power w/ the W58, be ready for some rebuilds. The clutch isn't all the difficult to figure out, even though it's pull style like Bean said. I basically show how to put it all together in my thread w/ the part numbers that you need straight from Toyota.
As for the shifter, craaazzy has done some awesome work on researching that in his thread. However my R154 shifter works just fine even though it is slightly tilted to the driver side.
Good luck with it all.
Jon
Guess what I am trying to say is, if you have the transmission there and readily available, you might want to consider using it. If you plan on pushing any kind of power w/ the W58, be ready for some rebuilds. The clutch isn't all the difficult to figure out, even though it's pull style like Bean said. I basically show how to put it all together in my thread w/ the part numbers that you need straight from Toyota.
As for the shifter, craaazzy has done some awesome work on researching that in his thread. However my R154 shifter works just fine even though it is slightly tilted to the driver side.
Good luck with it all.
Jon
06-01-08, 09:27 AM
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nice picture, great to have. FYI my w58 is shot, it got beat up. Im going for the r154 for sure, and also for the shifter as you can see I posted earlier... https://www.clublexus.com/forums/show...light=flywheel Seems like I got all my answers, thanks everyone -
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