lfrers

iTrader: (9)

OK I searched on methanol injection and I think meth injection will be the solution to my engine knock problems. I had been getting the knock on WOT at 19-22 PSI. 20 psi was getting me 430whp.

MY QUESTION IS:
Which Methanol injection kit should I get to safely run 550whp and what should I expect to pay for it, roughly.

Also please include your .02 on Methanol injection if you have or had used one.

here are some of my mods
Engine:
TD07 25G mitsubishi turbo
On a Toyomoto Cast Turbo Manifold
Walbro Fuel Pump (Noisy… sheesh)
Oversized fuel rail and 440 Injectors
Lowered compression via thicker Head gasket.
Greddy downpipe back dual exhaust. (no Cats)
Syncronic BOV

Electronics:
Apexi S-AFC
Greddy Profec2 Boost Controller
GForce ECU Upgrade ( supposedly increased Revlimit / no speed govern but I don’t know. I don’t really push it too hard due to engine knock)
Greddy FPC Fuel Pressure Controller

Drivetrain:
Getrag V161 6 speed transmission
RPS Carbon Claw Carbon fiber dual pressure clutch
3.76 supra tt LSD rear end

2jzlex

iTrader: (3)

There is a great writeup on meth here
http://www.supraforums.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=267257

Meth is a great tool but there are alot of little things IMHO that make it alot more reliable/safer. Like for instance make sure that you have some kind of alert to let you know you are low on meth, etc. You can buy a kit anywhere from 300-1000 bucks. Depends on alot of factors. Now you can also build your own setup for half the price of a regular kit here
http://www.coolingmist.com/

There are other sites as well that sell all the gadgets to creat your own setup. One word of advice. If I were you, and this is what I am planning on doing, is to run a sort of direct port meth injection into each runner. There are several reasons for this:

You create equal distribution to each cylinder
You elminate possibility of "flooding" a cylinder
Instead of gettin one or two nozzles and running alot of pressure, you have alot of nozzles and can easily adjust more/less meth through the injectors.

Something else you need to consider is the ratio of water/meth that you want to run. Water reduces the inlet temps more with not so much increase in octane. Meth is vice versa. Personally I would go with a 80/20or 90/10 meth/water setup.
Hope that helps
Jon

lfrers

iTrader: (9)

Thanks Dude. Exactly the info I needed.

lfrers

iTrader: (9)

I am currently trying to duplicate this direct port H2O/meth setup that someone else did on SupraFourms.

I'm told this setup will safely get me into the mid 500s RWHP with a good tune.
I'll post the results later.

buffalosoj

iTrader: (1)

I used a SMC Meth Injection Kit on my previous Evo VIII. Make 558awhp on 93 octane and meth injection. Very reliable kit and cheap as well. The kit is built with a safety switch now as well.

TTSC3

Well, if you want the best kit out there, I would go to www.alkycontrol.com
They use quality parts, are progressive, and use a MAP sensor. Also, if you ever get an AEM, you can use the nitrous control to control the meth injection.

lfrers

iTrader: (9)

Well I was looking at getting the AEM kit

forcefed86

You don't need a direct port kit for your HP goals... Although it does look cool!

I'm running a 60mm turbo and a dave H kit and pumped out 480 @ the wheels @21psi. I can run up to 25psi with the meth injection. Heres a link to my devils own install. Easy to install kit. So far I've bought 2 of these and run them on both my turbo cars. I run 91 octane and 25lbs of boost and 25* of timing on my grand national powered rx-7 with a single nozzle setup. (has gone 10.65 @ 131mph on drag radials and 91 octane + alky inj.)

Heres a link to my install page.



https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=324168

lfrers

iTrader: (9)

http://www.supraforums.com/forum/sho...ht=direct+meth




yea. i just did not want this to happen to me due to uneven distribution.

forcefed86

Something in his story doesn't add up. If Anything I had heard that its the rear most cyls that are ones starved for air/fuel in the supra manifold setup. This guy blew his front cyl?

I don't agree with his theory on direct port meth being a necessity. First off you should have some sort of knock monitor. You don't just blow a ring/piston/HG without signs of detonation. And if you let up at the early signs of it, you won't do enough damage to "blow" a cyl.

I've been running 25lbs and 25* timing for years without a problem on 91 octane. Either he's not atomizing his meth charge enough (120+psi) or he has other issues. Single nozzle setups work. Theres a 1000 + vehicles out there to prove it. The buick community has been doing it for 20+ years without issues. Many 9-10 second cars out there on pump gas.

I'm not telling you not to do the direct port if you have the time and money. It sure can't hurt anything. More power to you I think it looks awesome. But it is over kill IMHO.

A single nozzle works great if it's done correctly.

Curry

iTrader: (1)

I agree with forcefed. If you do it right you should have 0 problems. Also I think that person mentioned they had the nozzle close to the TB. From what I read it should be further from the TB to allow it to atomize and enter the TB correctly.

With direct port i think theres just more that can go wrong.

lfrers

iTrader: (9)

You got a real point there. If 1 jet failed of the 6... well....it would probably be more difficult to notice until it would be too late.

I get a little knock at just over 12 psi.

And I’m having difficulties finding a dirt cheap ge int manifold to set it up on. I don’t want to leave the car down long so I was going to do the whole setup on another manifold then bolt it on during the Alky setup.

I guess I will just go with what the tuner I’m using decides. He seems very knowledgeable. Maybe there is something to K.I.S.S.

Single is much $$$cheaper$$$ too

2jzlex

iTrader: (3)

1. Ummmm there are quite a few people that have problems with single nozzle meth systems. But most of them are due to improper setups yes.

2. Looks have nothing to do with the direct port setups... It's all about the equal distribution to cylinders. Not matter how much psi you have, the 2jzgte manifold wasn't all that well designed considering everthing else on the that beautiful motor. So distribution is a problem.

3. Buicks......... Supras......... Absolutely nothing in common, turbo w/meth injection or not.

4. Meth is supposed to be as close to the TB as possible.

5. There are countless people that have counted on GM and aftermarket knock sensors, only to blow motors regardless due to detonation. It is much more complex than that. EGT's, AFR's, Engine Temp, AIT's, Knock, and others are equally important w/meth.

6. If you put a kit together yourself, the costs are almost identical.

The person's setup migh have been to too much meth in the first cylinder, causing major problems. This would be caused by, you guessed it, unequal distribution. Not uncommon at all. I am not saying direct port is the only way to go, there are alot of setups with single nozzles that work just fine and make huge power, no argument there. But comapre the AFR's, and AIT's in each cylinder with direct port and I would guarantee a much better distribution. The likelihood of a smaller nozzle failing with less load is much lower than a single nozzle with all the load.


Just some thoughts
Jon

forcefed86

1.) I'm not claiming any system is perfect. You could have an injector or a fuel pump fail as well. But It's not common. If you properly maintain the system it's not likely to fail. There will always be exceptions.

2.) Yes. I know what direct port systems are for and what advantages they have. But IMO I just think it looks nice. Much like huge multistage direct port nitrous systems. That was just a personal opinion. Last I checked I was allowed to post my opinions. (And on a side note I don't recall claiming that the gte manifold distributes the meth charge better than a ge.)

3.) Buicks and supras have nothing in common? All engines are just simple air pumps. And IMO turbo engines are similar to one another. And along that note. The buick motors are old single cam technology with poor fuel mapping and head design compared to the 2JZ series engines. So in theory if detonation is prevented in LC2 buick engines the addition of methanol to a better designed 2jz engine will have even more benefits.

2jzlex

iTrader: (3)

Of course you are allowed to post your opinions, but this is a car forum and opinions that are backed by personal opinion, and not much else, don't help out us car enthutsiasts that are looking for justifiable logic, relevance, and numbers instead of "it looks like". You are completely missing my points about manifold, relevance etc. So your saying that the buick's motor air delivery is the same as the gte? Each manifold is specific to that car in diameter, interior texture(smooth or rough), composition, flow rate, blah blah blah. So taking this into consieration, concerning meth delivery, a 2jzgte is(I'm not even going to bring up the fact that you said yourself its a single cam engine and the completely changes the head configuration) not all that similar to the buick. So therefore, if the delivery isn't the same, is the atomization of the meth......? So a motor is a big air pump, so what? No big break through there. We are talking about meth on boosted cars.... which isn't the same on an N/A 383 stroker is it, or a 20B GT42R RX7? Is detonation prevented in both engines, certainly. BUT, since we have confirmed the delivery is different, there are obvious differences in engine design, and I'm pretty sure that there aren't alot of 700+ hp buicks out there, that meth delivery distribution to each cylinder becomes increasingly important as the demand for more power increases and tolerances become smaller smaller. So if it makes sense to use equal distribtion on higher hp cars, why would you settle for less if actual price doesnt vary much and its proven very functional in practice and thoery as well? If none of this is getting through, think of it this way: If you had a set of fuel injectors in front of you, (same price) same 850cc, one of them was perfectly flow matched, balanced, etc, and the other wasn't. Which one would you take? If you say it doens't matter then my argument is done and no more needs to be said. But if you choose the balanced injectors, you are agreeing that fuel delivery to each cylinder is critical for achieving perfect AFR in each cylinder. If you agree with this, please tell me how meth delivery is less important.

Jon