MJHSC400

You can cut them down and make them fit--

SC400TT -- Thanks for the enlightenment-- I forgot our stockers were that ghetto-- I stand corrected--

c0wboy

I'm sure they can be cut down to fit, however they won't work well. That's the key. There have been many attempts at turbo manifolds for the 1uzfe and so far the range is split. On one half, you have the kits that run 30K which are ok at best (the manifolds don't look nearly as good as these), and the other half so far has been half hearted home built attempts. Some were ok and some were garbage.

For someone looking for anything below 550rwhp, these turbo manifolds are not for them. The V8 wants to make power. It's that easy. The price is dead on correct for what they are and no one said that HP comes easy.

I firmly believe that these are the BEST V8TT manifolds available for the Lexus V8. They are the ONLY viable option for the turboing the Lexus V8 as they are readily available and ultra high quality. If there are any serious SC400 guys out there, these turbo manifolds are for you.

Eric

Blizzy

iTrader: (-1)

Honestly, this is what is comes down to.

If you are wanting a simple 6-8psi for 325whp, then run a homemade set up and let her rip. This person is looking to get as much power as possible as cheaply as possible from their V8.

If you are looking for 650whp, then you are willing to spend the money to rebuild the engine and swap a beefy tranny. This person is willing to spend $2500 more on these manifolds that will present no headaches in terms of fitment, quality, and performance.

With a high compression engine that is not built for high horsepower internally, I think this is a "Go High or Go Home" scenario. Either baby the stock motor and milk what power you can to hang with the factory big boys or rebuild the entire drivetrain and make a modded C6 owner cry.

Pheonix

Stop your **** right there Eric.
I was nothing but fair with you as a member of the Lextreme moderation staff when you were on lextreme. I may be a blunt, but I tell it exactly like it is, and I'm fair. I have a very long history of nothing but that. Your history, on the other hand, was passing the blame of being banned from the Lextreme forums to everyone else but you.
I gave you every damn fair chance under the sun that I could give after you had private warnings from probably half the active staff at that time.

Keep yours, and your TTC **** to yourself son. I gave you plenty of slack. FAR more slack that you ever should have had. You're the one that took the slack & hung yourself.



AFA Lextreme's manifolds. I have nothing to do with them. I wouldn't make them like that if I were to make some.
If I were doing it, I'd use a traditional 1.5"id, 6"ish low angle merge collector, and throughout the entire piping use much tighter bends to achive a much smaller manifold project while achiving slightly longer pre-merge piping.
I like that much better than a log manifold which one gigantic collector with several size transitions running through the manifold, or a much smaller merge on longer pipes.



Hey I'm pretty good! I was .015" off.
Well I'm glad you're using 14 gauge. There's nothing wrong with 16 gauge, but it begins to get too weak when there is alot of moisture present under the high heat load of a turbo manifold. I've seen enough of them crack, even N/A that had visually correct welds front & back. 14 gauge is still abit smaller than schedule 10, which has become pretty much the standard for non-custom bent piping all the way through.



What does "Alice" think about it? I think you should ceramic coat them... You can buy a boatload of 2000*F ceramic powder for $50. Descent hobby level guns are very cheap at this point. Ovens are not that expencive. Yall ahve a shop. The more toys the merrier. There's always room. You can do something else while a manif cures. (Multi-tasking woohoo!)
Header wrap what you want, but I'd never sell a manifold with wrap. That is nothing but having people pay for trouble later on. Especially on a turbo manifold, ew.
Another tip... Weld your flanges with them bolted down to avoid warping the stainless. When finished, go back & cut the flanges themselves. That will ensure there will never, ever be enough stress in the manifold when it get's thot, to pull the flanges off the mating surface.
Just something to think about. hehehehehe
Vertical bandsaw. It's alot easier, quicker & reproduceable to rip pipe length wise on a vertical bandsaw with the correct fencing & pattern installed than it is grind it with a 4 1/2" angle grinder.











For the money... I do not see the quality there for the money. If you dropped 800-1000 off the price, then ya. That would be exactly the quality that price point demands.
Those are good $1500usd manifolds. They are bad $2500usd manifolds.
If you're selling $2500usd manifolds, they should be the quality of something like this, times two:





That's the type of quality you get when you pay $1000usd+ a manifold.









Oh... And going along with that last paragraph. Full-race 2jz-gte manifolds are worth $2400usd. Long tube top mount Full-race 4 cylinder manifolds are worth $1300usd.




I'm not full-race. Neither are you. So why would you sell $1500usd turbo manifolds for $2500usd? I see no reaso for you to command a thousand dollars over what those should actually sell for.









Year long warranty on the welds is the standard now for any of the hobby/home built manifolds being sold. I have no reason to think the welding on the manifold would fail provided there are no hidden inclusions, there is full penitration, and you back-purge atleast the critical welds.
So... You know I have nothing to say about the warranty. That's the current "average" in the home/hobby manifold "industry".
















I simply see those as $1500usd manifolds because that's what they're worth. If you can sell alot of them at $2500usd, more power too you but wow. Definately not $2500 manifolds. lol!

MJHSC400

I think they're nice quality-- My comment about modding the stockers was based on basically cutting the flange off and nearly starting over save the 1" of stub on each primary-- I can buy all the bends at standard consumer pricing and build a set that will support enough 1/4 mile hp to crack the block in half based on the stock flanges and stubs for way cheap--

Guys have made over 700whp on logs for the good lord's sake--

For what it is-- you could ask more and maybe get it-- I'm just with the other people that think they're in the $1500 value range---

And honestly until they're true equal length, the step up in flow is only a marginal change over stockers-- not drastic by any stretch--

SC400TT

iTrader: (4)

You mentioned it yourself...After I pointed it out to you, the space allowed in the SC engine bay is tight, very tight. There simply is not enough space available to build equal length headers and fit them in the car without losing the power steering pump and AC compressor...Even then, I am not sure it could be done...Again, when modding a car, engineering the modifications is a lot better way to do it that simply slapping stuff together and hoping for the best...

I am curious, what is the most HP put down by any SC400 that we know of??? I believe it was by Bob (RDM20Fan) with the TT Lexus SC400 in Chicago. It was built by Chris Mantas of CJM racing, and it was approximately 517 WHP at 17 lbs. of boost. Those headers were a set of partially redesigned and rewelded SS AutoChrome headers made for the NA Tundra. They were definitely unequal length runners, and they still had to give up the AC compressor.

Anderson Audio in Atlanta modded that white SC430, used log style headers, and got about 720 WHP on their TT set up.

Again, one has to work within the limitations of the car they are modding, so ultimately, there will always be some sort of compromise...

Ryan

Blizzy

iTrader: (-1)

I did not realize that Tundra headers made it into the Chicago TT build. I wish there was an engine bay shot showing the extent of the modifications.

Pheonix

Eh, equal length is not that most important aspect to look at anyways.
None of the intake, or exhaust ports are equal length, nor equal aspect, velocity, or flow anyways.

Plus, what alot of people forget when measuring out equal leingth manifold runners... Is that it's equal length from the valve seats, not the manifold flanges. Which in itself will change equal length manifolds even more!

The length plays alittle different role in a turbo manifold than it does an N/A manifold. With an N/A manifold you want the runner sized to give the highest velocity without being terribly restrictive. And long enough to bring the peak gains to the fat of your powerband. (30" plus or minus 4" is typically a good ballpark on most production type engines, but one size does not fit all.)
A turbo manifold... You want the overall volume to be small, with a high velocity without being horribly restrictive. That means don't go over-board on runner diameter, or length. You want it into the turbine at as high a velocity as possible without choking flow.



At any rate... Equal length, not that important. Engine output is an average of all the cylinder's power anyways. Who care's if one makes 4 horsepower more at X rpm than another cylinder. Aslong as thy're not just grossly out of spec. If they're all within a foot you'll be fine. The cylinders are tuned alittle differently, but no big deal.



6" is good, 4" is great. You're talking about powerband shifts of a 100-200rpm tops between the cylinders at that point. Anything under that in all honesty is simply not worth the effort in doing so unless you are running a full-blown drag engine that has a 1000rpm powerband on a gigantic torque convertor.





Where people really get in trouble with N/A headers, is relying on the top-end gains of shorty headers. The majority of those things are sized to give peak gains in the 8000-9000rpm range. I'd rather have long tube headers that drop it down into peak gains in the 5000rpm range (for your typical 7000rpm toyota engine). That means you get all your peak gains averaged out across the top half of first gear, and every gear after that instead of only touching the good gains at the very tops of your gears.
Equal length, IMHO not particularly super important. it's a ballpark thing... Once you get "close enough" you're just adding alot of work. Work is bad... Making more work for yourself costs money.



Anywho. Turbo manifolds FTW.

c0wboy

No AC for sure. Then again the end user deleted it.

___________________________________________________

Let me reiterate. It is TTC Performance and MVP Motorsports policy to charge fair market value for these manifolds, and also any other item. It's a free country and those who don't appreciate our service can go elsewhere. Point blank, we produce the BEST manifolds available for the Lexus V8. There is no doubting this point.

We aren't asking too much for these, in fact I felt we should be charging more given the rarity of the item. For years people have said that it's impossible to produce a set of turbo manifolds that keeps both the AC and the PS. Frank @ Boss Autosports has done just that. They've turned out beautiful, they work great, and they come with a 1 year warrantee. That's what we're offering, and I feel that we have really come to the table in the V8TT arena.



There's no doubt that Frank@Boss Autosports has produced a beatiful set of turbo manifolds, and what's more by keeping the AC and PS he's pulled off something that no one else has. The real joy that I have in all of this is knowing that we are shaping the industry and defining our own market. For years the only way for a 1uz to make power was to pull it out and install a 2jz. Those days are over. Now the 1uz has the opportunity to enter the stratospheric HP ranges of the 2jz and do it in a bolt on manner as possible.

We're PROUD to offer these manifolds, and all other V8TT performance items. We're also estatic that we are on the leading edge of Lexus V8 performance. We don't just give a lot of lip service a lot of useless gum flapping, we actually walk the walk and do exactly what we say we're going to do.

Phoenix, if you have any more questions feel free to PM me.

Eric

SC400TT

iTrader: (4)

Here are some comments from Burns regarding header design and theory...The main point being that there is not necessarily one way to build them, and ultimately, the best way to design and build a set of headers is the resulting performance one receives from them:
" When two or more pipes come together, as in a collector for example, the waves travel into all of the available pipes - backwards as well as forwards. Waves are also reflected back up the original pipe, but with a negative pressure. The strength of the wave reflection is based on the area change compared to the area of the originating pipe.
This reflecting, negative pulse energy is the basis of wave action tuning. The basic idea is to time the negative wave pulse reflection to coincide with the period of overlap - this low pressure helps to pull in a fresh intake charge as the intake valve is opening and helps to remove the residual exhaust gases before the exhaust valve closes. Typically this phenomenon is controlled by the length of the primary header pipe. Due to the 'critical timing' aspect of this tuning technique, there may be parts of the power curve where more harm than good is done.
Gas speed is a double edged sword as well, too much gas speed indicates that that the system may be too restrictive hurting top end power, while too little gas speed tends to make the power curve excessively 'peaky' hurting low end torque. Larger diameter tubes allow the gases to expand; this cools the gases, slowing down both the gases and the waves.
Exhaust system design is a balancing act between all of these complex events and their timing. Even with the best compromise of exhaust pipe diameter and length, the collector outlet sizing can make or break the best design. The bottom line on any exhaust system design is to create the best, most useful power curve. All theory aside, the final judgement is how the engine likes the exhaust tuning on the dyno and on the track.
Various exhaust designs have evolved over the years from theory, but the majority are still being built from 'cut & try' experimenting.

When considering a header design, the following points need to be considered:

• 1) Header primary pipe diameter (also whether constant size or stepped pipes).
• 2) Primary pipe overall length.
• 3) Collector package including the number of pipes per collector and the outlet sizing.
• 4) Megaphone/tailpipe package.

There are many ideas about header pipe sizing. Usually the primary pipe sizing is related to exhaust valve and port size. Header pipe length is dependent on wave tuning (or lack of it). Typically, longer pipes tune for lower r.p.m. power and the shorter pipes favor high r.p.m. power. The collector package is dependent on the number of cylinders, the engine configuration (V-8, inline 6, etc.), firing order and the basic design objectives (interference or independence). The collector outlet size is determined by primary pipe size and exhaust cam timing."

Pay attention to this statement again: The bottom line on any exhaust system design is to create the best, most useful power curve. All theory aside, the final judgement is how the engine likes the exhaust tuning on the dyno and on the track. Header design and building is an art. There is no "One right way only" to make them. As I have continued to state, The design of the header for any project is determined by several factors, and ultimately, for any street car, some compromises will need to be considered and built into the equation.

Ryan

c0wboy

Ryan's got it right. There's more than one way to go about making a workign set of turbo manifolds.

There's also book knowledge, and also practical application. Which in our case we practice pratcial application since we've come forward with a working set of manifolds. Ryan had boost nearly off idle with his set-up.

Now to SC400TT. I want to give him the credit in pushing these manifolds through. He had a hard time finding someone to make him his set, then he went to talk with Frank@BossAutosports. Frank basically said it would be no problem, and then proceeded to put his money where his mouth is. Before he knew it Ryan had a killer set of turbo manifolds. Now fast forward to my V8TT project. I had also paid for a set of turbo manifolds that was completely useless, so in frustration I called Ryan (SC400TT) to find out if he thought Frank would be interested in building my manifolds both for myself and for my customers. Ryan gave me the number and Frank was very happy to build more sets exclusively for us at TTC Performance. Ryan loaned out his original set to Frank so he could produce both our sets and produce a set for Ryan out of the same superior 14 gauge stainless. And now look what we have... a viable, affordable, and readily available set of turbo manifolds for the Lexus V8 public. Many thanks to Ryan because he really paved the way.

Thanks again!

Eric

ScottURnot

iTrader: (33)

Right on! Glad to see this post. Ryan has poured is soul into his project, I am happy to see you give him credit!

Eric,
I am also thrilled to see you're decication to the sc400's.
It is great to see you bring this stuff to the Lexus world!

Hats off to both of you!

c0wboy

Yeah, what a lot of people dont' realize is that Ryan, Frank, and myself are all local to the Orlando area. In fact Ryan and myself sometime meet up for the local Lexus meets on Wednesday nights, and I don't even own a Lexus. I am the oddball with the MKIV I think being local is something that we take for granted but we forget that folks elsewhere don't know.

I will say this, and I hope that everyone that reads this takes it to heart.....We at TTC Performance Products only deal in fairness, and ultra high quality products. This is why MVP Motorsports believes in us so much, and everyone knows the impecable reputation MVP Motorsports has in the industry. If we ever have a complaint, we do everything possible to remedy the situation. We've even lost money on projects because we made the product right and corrected any deficiencies. Our reputation in the industry is spotless and 100%. We stand buy ALL of our products both before, durring, and after the sale. That's why we are offering the 1 year warrantee on our manifolds. We believe in them that much.

Poorboy300

Being the owner of an SC300 Auto at the moment, i cannot say a whole lot regarding room on the 400's. Having spent long periods of time having Aerodynamics and thermodynamics shoved into my brain, i can say something here.

These manifolds are WAY better than using any factory 1uz manifold as far as any aerodynamic or thermodynamics are concerned. The chance of burning a valve using these manifolds is inumerably lower vs using any of the factory manifold options if you plan on running higher boost in a racing application. (hopefully by that point non-factory valves are in place anyway, but...)

I do have one minor argument with the design, but its hard to tell since i cannot see the inside of the collector pipe here, but the huge difference in volume from the very long merge of the individual pipes would create a drop in velocity extremely close to the exhaust port. Top that off with what appears to be a very small diameter outlet at the V-band clamp, and you get one heck of a bottle neck for the suddenly "jumbled" exhaust pulses.

As I stated, however, these are still better than using any factory manifold, no matter what flaws could be found with them.

On to the argument of price. Yea $2500 is way pricey. More than I would pay, but heck, I can weld, have a welder, and I have tools to cut metal. I even have time when I **** off the girlfriend! As they stated, make your own if you want to. I know that at HP Motorsports here in Omaha, a place I used to work for, having something like those custom built would roughly cost $1000 per bank using 321 stainless steel (all materials and labor). Add to that the time for them to build it and hey, Mail order-to your door-delivery doesn't sound so bad when you know that it will bolt up! I know that you could build something similar to Anderson Audios setup for way less, and all you need is 4 bends and a larger diameter collector pipe. If you arent planning on making 1000rwhp they would be fine.

I guess what I am trying to say is, yes, I agree the price is outrageous, but I also understand the alternatives without having to do it myself and what it will cost. Considering NOBODY else offers ANY type of "production" turbo manifold for these cars, it is at least an alternative for those that have some money to spend and don't have the skills to cut and weld.

If it really bothers you that much, make your own! Make a BUNCH! Make them cheap enough, I might just get them for the SC400 I'm picking up next week (OH YEA! )

c0wboy

That's my favorite statement in your post above.

The price is dead on considering the price of the complete turbo kit. Here's a pic of my turbo kit fully assembled and ready for ceramic coating/heat wrap