NX "LAG" issues
Lexus Fanatic
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Lexus Champion
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From: WA
Car and Driver noted it in their recent test:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...-tested-review
I haven't had an opportunity to drive it and check it out for myself.
Despite Lexus’s work to reduce turbo lag, lag is indeed present, evident in a rolling-start (5–60 mph) acceleration time of 7.8 seconds, 0.8 and 0.2 second behind the X3 and Q5, respectively.
I haven't had an opportunity to drive it and check it out for myself.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 265
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From: ca
[QUOTE=JDR76;8827599]Car and Driver noted it in their recent test:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...-tested-review
I haven't had an opportunity to drive it and check it out for myself.[/QUOTE
Roadandtrack.com
The new turbo four might be smart, but oddly, it's not super-quick off the line. Scrolling the drive mode rotary dial from 'Eco' to 'Sport' sharpens the throttle response and wakes up the transmission. But punch the right pedal from a stoplight, and—wait for it—there's some lag before the boost hits around 2200 rpm.
also from autoweek reviews:
That turbo engine should really be livelier than this. It has decent power, but it shifts with a frustrating delay, and a rough downshift that belies the newness of its six-speed transmission.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...-tested-review
I haven't had an opportunity to drive it and check it out for myself.[/QUOTE
Roadandtrack.com
The new turbo four might be smart, but oddly, it's not super-quick off the line. Scrolling the drive mode rotary dial from 'Eco' to 'Sport' sharpens the throttle response and wakes up the transmission. But punch the right pedal from a stoplight, and—wait for it—there's some lag before the boost hits around 2200 rpm.
also from autoweek reviews:
That turbo engine should really be livelier than this. It has decent power, but it shifts with a frustrating delay, and a rough downshift that belies the newness of its six-speed transmission.
Last edited by vince22; Dec 15, 2014 at 03:32 PM.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,554
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From: Illinois
The mention of turbo lag in the professional reviews is surprising, especially with the twin scroll turbo in the NX. I wonder if it's something that can be corrected/improved with some change to engine programming? If so, a fix could be implemented pretty quick. Plus, it may be an issue that the average buyer may not really notice.
The pursuit of F
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 8,296
Likes: 303
From: Toronto, Canada
The mention of turbo lag in the professional reviews is surprising, especially with the twin scroll turbo in the NX. I wonder if it's something that can be corrected/improved with some change to engine programming? If so, a fix could be implemented pretty quick. Plus, it may be an issue that the average buyer may not really notice.
For instance, I find there is a "lag" with the RX F-Sport where it lunges after about 1 second after initial moderate to heavy throttle-tip-in. It's due to the 8-speed and its programming since I didn't experience that with the RX and the 6-speed. However, being aware of the lunge, I simply adjust to throttle input such that I have a smooth yet powerful takeoff. I would expect the NX ownership to be similar. In the end, it's still a zippy crossover for 6.9-7.0 seconds 0-60 mph, 0.7-0.8 seconds faster than the RX which I find pretty good. Morale of the story here is, yes for the most common city-driving buyer, the NX will more than meet expectations yet for the track hungry automotive journalists, it may not from a power delivery standpoint.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,266
Likes: 48
From: NY / LI
Agree. Yet if someone really wants to nitpick, almost every vehicle has some sort of lag, even the normally aspirated powered vehicles - whether it's throttle response or transmission response....
For instance, I find there is a "lag" with the RX F-Sport where it lunges after about 1 second after initial moderate to heavy throttle-tip-in. It's due to the 8-speed and its programming since I didn't experience that with the RX and the 6-speed. However, being aware of the lunge, I simply adjust to throttle input such that I have a smooth yet powerful takeoff. I would expect the NX ownership to be similar. In the end, it's still a zippy crossover for 6.9-7.0 seconds 0-60 mph, 0.7-0.8 seconds faster than the RX which I find pretty good. Morale of the story here is, yes for the most common city-driving buyer, the NX will more than meet expectations yet for the track hungry automotive journalists, it may not from a power delivery standpoint.
For instance, I find there is a "lag" with the RX F-Sport where it lunges after about 1 second after initial moderate to heavy throttle-tip-in. It's due to the 8-speed and its programming since I didn't experience that with the RX and the 6-speed. However, being aware of the lunge, I simply adjust to throttle input such that I have a smooth yet powerful takeoff. I would expect the NX ownership to be similar. In the end, it's still a zippy crossover for 6.9-7.0 seconds 0-60 mph, 0.7-0.8 seconds faster than the RX which I find pretty good. Morale of the story here is, yes for the most common city-driving buyer, the NX will more than meet expectations yet for the track hungry automotive journalists, it may not from a power delivery standpoint.
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Intermediate
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 345
Likes: 25
From: PA
I finally got into an NX200t today for a test drive and got to stomp it a couple times. Some background on myself. I am not necessarily an aggressive driver in that I'm not a **** to people, but if it's pretty open highway or I'm on back roads I will absolutely push my car hard if conditions allow. I like driving. Given that, the performance of the NX200t is very mediocre. The best reference I can give is that it feels more like a 4 cylinder that has no turbo. I am actually shocked it can get to 60 mph in 7 seconds, it doesn't feel like it. You can't feel the boost at all, I really had a hard time picking out the state of the turbo. It's very smooth and linear acceleration if that is valuable to you.
Put it in sport mode and you can definitely feel that the engine has more to give. It's still not fast, but a lot better. I spoke with the sales manager for a bit about this, and he candidly said the transmission was the issue in his eyes. I agree with him, and I'm concluding that what some reviews are calling turbo lag is probably just the transmission smoothing out the turbo boost so the car feels less jumpy. Lexus has said many times how important linear acceleration is to them, and that would fit with what I see as an intentional design as opposed to turbo lag. A twin scroll with that much lag doesn't really jive.
Handling is worlds better than the RX, that is evident immediately. To me the RX is a cumbersome boat. The NX doesn't come off that way, but I didn't get to push it enough to see how it stacks up against real competition. Initial thought was it's still a bit softer than the Germans, but much closer to them than to the RX.
Put it in sport mode and you can definitely feel that the engine has more to give. It's still not fast, but a lot better. I spoke with the sales manager for a bit about this, and he candidly said the transmission was the issue in his eyes. I agree with him, and I'm concluding that what some reviews are calling turbo lag is probably just the transmission smoothing out the turbo boost so the car feels less jumpy. Lexus has said many times how important linear acceleration is to them, and that would fit with what I see as an intentional design as opposed to turbo lag. A twin scroll with that much lag doesn't really jive.
Handling is worlds better than the RX, that is evident immediately. To me the RX is a cumbersome boat. The NX doesn't come off that way, but I didn't get to push it enough to see how it stacks up against real competition. Initial thought was it's still a bit softer than the Germans, but much closer to them than to the RX.
Last edited by sg021; Dec 26, 2014 at 01:02 PM.
Intermediate
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 345
Likes: 25
From: PA
No argument there.
I understand negative comments will generate negative responses on a forum like this, but I'm definitely rolling my eyes here. I will just say in the lead up to the nx release long time members here have in sum confidently stated this would be a mid 6's car with best in class handling and mpg ( even for the turbo). I don't need a race car, something like that with Lexus reliability would be fine. By the time I got behind the wheel it was already clear from reviews that none of this was true, other than the reliability.
Those reviews have hit on these same shortcomings, and I was throwing my two cents in regarding why it is what it is.
If you want my full honest take on the car here it is. My wife is a big Lexus fan and wants me to like the NX. They look nice on the outside and have good interior quality. For her that is enough because it's a Lexus. I went in with an open mind and let the car sell itself, or in this case dig its own grave. I already mentioned the meh performance. I expected the RTI to be awful, and it sort of is. I said I liked it more than the joystick at least. Wife countered with "well you can just use the voice commands". Alright let's try to navigate somewhere.
"Pardon me, I didn't get that"
"Pardon me, I didn't get that"
"Which Days Inn do you want to go to?"
At this point we were cracking up. Sales associate said I couldn't pair my phone to try out the integration because it permanently locks it in. Ok, that doesn't seem good and now I can't try any of that out.
I then started pointing out all the features on the MKC that the NX doesn't have, and why those features would be helpful or convenient to our family. I have very thoroughly vetted all the cars i wish to potentially buy, so it was not hard at all to shake my wife's confidence in Lexus. She suggested i could use my phone as navigation like i do now, and i pointed out that using the same hacked method on a brand new car seems like a poor choice, and the deeply recessed screen and packed console don't give me an obvious spot to mount my phone.
They should have come out with a fuller featured vehicle in the US. My takeaway is they know people will buy anyway because it's a Lexus, so they played it really safe to not jeopardize their legendary reliability.
You are more than free to point out all the ways I am wrong.
I understand negative comments will generate negative responses on a forum like this, but I'm definitely rolling my eyes here. I will just say in the lead up to the nx release long time members here have in sum confidently stated this would be a mid 6's car with best in class handling and mpg ( even for the turbo). I don't need a race car, something like that with Lexus reliability would be fine. By the time I got behind the wheel it was already clear from reviews that none of this was true, other than the reliability.
Those reviews have hit on these same shortcomings, and I was throwing my two cents in regarding why it is what it is.
If you want my full honest take on the car here it is. My wife is a big Lexus fan and wants me to like the NX. They look nice on the outside and have good interior quality. For her that is enough because it's a Lexus. I went in with an open mind and let the car sell itself, or in this case dig its own grave. I already mentioned the meh performance. I expected the RTI to be awful, and it sort of is. I said I liked it more than the joystick at least. Wife countered with "well you can just use the voice commands". Alright let's try to navigate somewhere.
"Pardon me, I didn't get that"
"Pardon me, I didn't get that"
"Which Days Inn do you want to go to?"
At this point we were cracking up. Sales associate said I couldn't pair my phone to try out the integration because it permanently locks it in. Ok, that doesn't seem good and now I can't try any of that out.
I then started pointing out all the features on the MKC that the NX doesn't have, and why those features would be helpful or convenient to our family. I have very thoroughly vetted all the cars i wish to potentially buy, so it was not hard at all to shake my wife's confidence in Lexus. She suggested i could use my phone as navigation like i do now, and i pointed out that using the same hacked method on a brand new car seems like a poor choice, and the deeply recessed screen and packed console don't give me an obvious spot to mount my phone.
They should have come out with a fuller featured vehicle in the US. My takeaway is they know people will buy anyway because it's a Lexus, so they played it really safe to not jeopardize their legendary reliability.
You are more than free to point out all the ways I am wrong.
Intermediate
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 273
Likes: 21
From: Ohio
Agree. Yet if someone really wants to nitpick, almost every vehicle has some sort of lag, even the normally aspirated powered vehicles - whether it's throttle response or transmission response....
For instance, I find there is a "lag" with the RX F-Sport where it lunges after about 1 second after initial moderate to heavy throttle-tip-in. It's due to the 8-speed and its programming since I didn't experience that with the RX and the 6-speed. However, being aware of the lunge, I simply adjust to throttle input such that I have a smooth yet powerful takeoff. I would expect the NX ownership to be similar. In the end, it's still a zippy crossover for 6.9-7.0 seconds 0-60 mph, 0.7-0.8 seconds faster than the RX which I find pretty good. Morale of the story here is, yes for the most common city-driving buyer, the NX will more than meet expectations yet for the track hungry automotive journalists, it may not from a power delivery standpoint.
For instance, I find there is a "lag" with the RX F-Sport where it lunges after about 1 second after initial moderate to heavy throttle-tip-in. It's due to the 8-speed and its programming since I didn't experience that with the RX and the 6-speed. However, being aware of the lunge, I simply adjust to throttle input such that I have a smooth yet powerful takeoff. I would expect the NX ownership to be similar. In the end, it's still a zippy crossover for 6.9-7.0 seconds 0-60 mph, 0.7-0.8 seconds faster than the RX which I find pretty good. Morale of the story here is, yes for the most common city-driving buyer, the NX will more than meet expectations yet for the track hungry automotive journalists, it may not from a power delivery standpoint.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,554
Likes: 279
From: Illinois
No argument there.
I understand negative comments will generate negative responses on a forum like this, but I'm definitely rolling my eyes here. I will just say in the lead up to the nx release long time members here have in sum confidently stated this would be a mid 6's car with best in class handling and mpg ( even for the turbo). I don't need a race car, something like that with Lexus reliability would be fine. By the time I got behind the wheel it was already clear from reviews that none of this was true, other than the reliability.
Those reviews have hit on these same shortcomings, and I was throwing my two cents in regarding why it is what it is.
If you want my full honest take on the car here it is. My wife is a big Lexus fan and wants me to like the NX. They look nice on the outside and have good interior quality. For her that is enough because it's a Lexus. I went in with an open mind and let the car sell itself, or in this case dig its own grave. I already mentioned the meh performance. I expected the RTI to be awful, and it sort of is. I said I liked it more than the joystick at least. Wife countered with "well you can just use the voice commands". Alright let's try to navigate somewhere.
"Pardon me, I didn't get that"
"Pardon me, I didn't get that"
"Which Days Inn do you want to go to?"
At this point we were cracking up. Sales associate said I couldn't pair my phone to try out the integration because it permanently locks it in. Ok, that doesn't seem good and now I can't try any of that out.
I then started pointing out all the features on the MKC that the NX doesn't have, and why those features would be helpful or convenient to our family. I have very thoroughly vetted all the cars i wish to potentially buy, so it was not hard at all to shake my wife's confidence in Lexus. She suggested i could use my phone as navigation like i do now, and i pointed out that using the same hacked method on a brand new car seems like a poor choice, and the deeply recessed screen and packed console don't give me an obvious spot to mount my phone.
They should have come out with a fuller featured vehicle in the US. My takeaway is they know people will buy anyway because it's a Lexus, so they played it really safe to not jeopardize their legendary reliability.
You are more than free to point out all the ways I am wrong.
I understand negative comments will generate negative responses on a forum like this, but I'm definitely rolling my eyes here. I will just say in the lead up to the nx release long time members here have in sum confidently stated this would be a mid 6's car with best in class handling and mpg ( even for the turbo). I don't need a race car, something like that with Lexus reliability would be fine. By the time I got behind the wheel it was already clear from reviews that none of this was true, other than the reliability.
Those reviews have hit on these same shortcomings, and I was throwing my two cents in regarding why it is what it is.
If you want my full honest take on the car here it is. My wife is a big Lexus fan and wants me to like the NX. They look nice on the outside and have good interior quality. For her that is enough because it's a Lexus. I went in with an open mind and let the car sell itself, or in this case dig its own grave. I already mentioned the meh performance. I expected the RTI to be awful, and it sort of is. I said I liked it more than the joystick at least. Wife countered with "well you can just use the voice commands". Alright let's try to navigate somewhere.
"Pardon me, I didn't get that"
"Pardon me, I didn't get that"
"Which Days Inn do you want to go to?"
At this point we were cracking up. Sales associate said I couldn't pair my phone to try out the integration because it permanently locks it in. Ok, that doesn't seem good and now I can't try any of that out.
I then started pointing out all the features on the MKC that the NX doesn't have, and why those features would be helpful or convenient to our family. I have very thoroughly vetted all the cars i wish to potentially buy, so it was not hard at all to shake my wife's confidence in Lexus. She suggested i could use my phone as navigation like i do now, and i pointed out that using the same hacked method on a brand new car seems like a poor choice, and the deeply recessed screen and packed console don't give me an obvious spot to mount my phone.
They should have come out with a fuller featured vehicle in the US. My takeaway is they know people will buy anyway because it's a Lexus, so they played it really safe to not jeopardize their legendary reliability.
You are more than free to point out all the ways I am wrong.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 20,238
Likes: 274
No argument there.
I understand negative comments will generate negative responses on a forum like this, but I'm definitely rolling my eyes here. I will just say in the lead up to the nx release long time members here have in sum confidently stated this would be a mid 6's car with best in class handling and mpg ( even for the turbo). I don't need a race car, something like that with Lexus reliability would be fine. By the time I got behind the wheel it was already clear from reviews that none of this was true, other than the reliability
....
You are more than free to point out all the ways I am wrong.
I understand negative comments will generate negative responses on a forum like this, but I'm definitely rolling my eyes here. I will just say in the lead up to the nx release long time members here have in sum confidently stated this would be a mid 6's car with best in class handling and mpg ( even for the turbo). I don't need a race car, something like that with Lexus reliability would be fine. By the time I got behind the wheel it was already clear from reviews that none of this was true, other than the reliability
....
You are more than free to point out all the ways I am wrong.
I will just point out that small turbo is probably the reason you "feel" it is slow, when it isnt. It also means it should have less lag when punching it at small revs than similar vehicles. Of course, Sport mode is there to be used, so I assume that people who want it to be as fast as possible, will simply use sport mode... rest will be using normal or eco modes to save fuel and have smoother acceleration.
Since you seem to like MKC, it would be great if you could "review" both here (in car chat), with similar engines if possible. Will give another perspective to future owners.
As to expected 0-60 in 6s range - that was because we expected it to be little bit more like reskinned RAV4 when it comes to weight. But it weights a lot more than Rav4 so it is a bit slower than "we" expected, at the same time, it is about as fast as Q5 though.
Intermediate
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 345
Likes: 25
From: PA
I dont see why would there be negative comments on your post... Obviously it is not the car for you, and it will not be car for most of population as they expect to sell 4000 per month, which is really a tiny bit of 1,400,000 sales that happen every month in the USA. So for 99.95% of population, this is not a car for them. There is no universal truth in cars, people like different things.
I will just point out that small turbo is probably the reason you "feel" it is slow, when it isnt. It also means it should have less lag when punching it at small revs than similar vehicles. Of course, Sport mode is there to be used, so I assume that people who want it to be as fast as possible, will simply use sport mode... rest will be using normal or eco modes to save fuel and have smoother acceleration.
Since you seem to like MKC, it would be great if you could "review" both here (in car chat), with similar engines if possible. Will give another perspective to future owners.
As to expected 0-60 in 6s range - that was because we expected it to be little bit more like reskinned RAV4 when it comes to weight. But it weights a lot more than Rav4 so it is a bit slower than "we" expected, at the same time, it is about as fast as Q5 though.
I will just point out that small turbo is probably the reason you "feel" it is slow, when it isnt. It also means it should have less lag when punching it at small revs than similar vehicles. Of course, Sport mode is there to be used, so I assume that people who want it to be as fast as possible, will simply use sport mode... rest will be using normal or eco modes to save fuel and have smoother acceleration.
Since you seem to like MKC, it would be great if you could "review" both here (in car chat), with similar engines if possible. Will give another perspective to future owners.
As to expected 0-60 in 6s range - that was because we expected it to be little bit more like reskinned RAV4 when it comes to weight. But it weights a lot more than Rav4 so it is a bit slower than "we" expected, at the same time, it is about as fast as Q5 though.
I like the MKC because it is very feature rich. Adaptive suspension, bigger turbo (2.3 liter), nice pano roof, auto high beams that work surprisingly well. I also vastly prefer the touchscreen to Lexus RTI. It also looks really sharp IMO. It's not perfect as the transmission tends to search and the ride in normal mode is super spongy. Also, compared to Lexus my Lincoln dealership is a dump heap and shared by Ford. Their brand image is also in a dump heap somewhere, obviously.
I bit the bullet and test drove a Macan today. Different world, from dealership to vehicles. Big price difference (15-20k USD for my build), but you get what you pay for. Everyone and everything there seemed to be more on my wavelength. Scheduled maintenance and fuel economy costs over the long term are really the killers that just take the car to a whole new level of money.
I think I've come to accept that I am perhaps one of the more ideal candidates for a Tesla (which I also test drove and loved) as the long term cost of ownership will be very comparable to an RX in my situation. I can charge at home (or free at work), don't travel outside the range on a remotely regular basis, and live in a decent supercharger area. I really don't want to wait yet another year for a car, as based on my X reservation # and Tesla's ongoing delays that's probably the earliest I can hope for. They did send me a Christmas card though...