mburnickas

The warning on it is because most customers in this "class of car" are clueless on the issue. Again, I bet most Lexus customers can't even add the oil to their cars. Not knocking them but most owners don't care to know. It has nothing to do with oil changes, it comes down to liability and $$$$$.

Again my manual states 7,500 I do not know where these shorter drains came from. EVEN the letters Lexus sent me on the sludge issue do not even give a drain interval. If it was so important then state it in there letters and not use the word “reasonable effort to regularly maintain your vehicle”.

I work on commercial and military aircraft engines and I have seen how they are designed and the variables are into the design. Hence, there is "padding" incorporated into the designs.

You hit it on the head; dino oil has been around for 50+ years with short drains. Synthetic is much more robust, longevity is longer, more stable etc and it has the same interval as the "old dino oil"?

Saber, you put way to much trust into Toyota products. What they say is not "the bible" here. Plus Lexus is in the business to make money. If people "get smarter" and go longer on drains, it hurts their bottom line. If people use another synthetic oil, it hurts their bottom line. If, people did there own oil changes, spark plugs etc..you get the point...

And the manual is just a guide, not set in stone.

saber

I have a very good reason (450,000 miles) for trusting Toyota products and following the car care advice of the Toyota engineeers: http://www.saber.net/~monarch/449.jpg

On the internet there are hundreds of owners who, like you, boast of extending oil changes using oil analysis and synthetic oil, but I've never run across one who has accumulated 400, 500, or 600,000 miles of troublefree engine life using these 10,000 -25,000 mile intervals. But I've run across nearly a dozen Toyota / Lexus owners who have achieved 400-692K miles of durability when the oil was changed every 3000-5000 miles, using either dino and synthetic oil

mburnickas

First off, see my post on 10-08-04 13:54 (fourth line down). A picture of a odometer means nothing. Prove it is a Toyota, prove it has been using dino oil, let’s see the documented oil changed, who performed the change (and property assembled) etc. Weak example here, at best.

Next, I am not boosting about extending oil changes. I just have oil tests to show, in my car, that I can SAFELY extend oil changes and be perfectly fine. Secondly, I never stated I do 25K miles changes, so I do not know where that came from. If you have read my posts I state what I am doing for oil drains and I have the tests show it is fine. I know other users that use another oil and their tests show more wear, lower TBN after 50% LESS miles. So how is shorter drains helping?

#3, in no, ZERO, manual does it state drains at 3K miles. That is a waste of money. Lets see some oil tests with 3K miles…anyone? Lets compare some results. Does lower drains help anything, better wear etc. .Do you have any oil tests?? I would love to see some of the "great Toyota oil with 3 to 5K miles"?

Again just because someone has a 400, 500 600+ miles on an engine really means nothing. At what price did it cost to keep the car/truck etc going that long? It gets to a point in a cars life that it cost more to keep the car going then it is worth. Example, look at the Subaru’s, they lasted forever(engine wise), but there bodies sucked. What about tires, brakes, tranny, etc. The engine could be good, but the cars value is not worth more then the tranny. Also why would you want to have a 15 year old car and have to worry about riving it over 100 miles in one direction.

I do not know what “400-692K miles of durability” means? Define durability here. Nevermind the fact that I have never met any one person with 300K miles on ANY personal car, truck etc. I know a few Saab owners that have over 250K.

Again, Toyota is not a god in the engine world. First case in point, the 96 to 2002 cars with sludge problem.

MGS4

the sludge problem

http://www.autosafety.org/article.php?scid=&did=566

audphile1

About the oil. I use Mobile 1 with OEM filter on my LS430 and change oil every 7500 miles. My manual says 7500 for normal driving conditions, which is how my car is driven, and 5000 miles for heavy usage such as towing, etc... So why bother changing oil every 3000. Insane. I also talked to my Lexus dealer, they said I can go back and forth if I want to between Mobile1 and conventional oil. So what is this argument about? And now something that has nothing to do with this post - I like that model 500 Smith Mike. How does it shoot? Does it handle nicely? I have a Performance Center model 627 8-shot 357 mag. I love it. Aside from the fact that it's plain gorgeos, it is also an amazing design. I equipped it with a custom grip by KN Nill grips made specifically to my hand(I actually sent them my hand drawing, as per their request). Now I can blast 357s all day long with one hand and not get tired, that 's how well it's balanced and designed using the 44 mag frame. Smith makes some nice stuff. As soon as I see someone with that 500 I will ask them to let me handle it. Looks to be a rare piece though. Haven't seen people going to shooting ranges with the 500s yet, may be because it's fairly new I guess. The gun store where I buy all my stuff doesn't even stock these yet. They say there is not enough people asking for these babys. That's a shame.

mburnickas

I have no clue here. I just stated that the 3 to 5K is a waster for most. Then the debate goes farther. no big deal......

The 500 shoots pretty good right out of the box. The guns were a hit or miss to find. When they first came out they were VERY rare and got a nice price tag too. *around retail at $1,100. When I was an FFL, my price for a model 500 was $690. That was if I bought (1). More bought = more savings.

Now they are common in the Northeast and the price is about $730 to $780. They are really easy to find but the ammo you need to look for, since the prices vary so much. You can pay from $24 to $42 for 20 rounds.

Since I was an FFL, I would have to say the dealer you go to does not want to buy one or 2 due to his supplier or high prices. Most suppliers give them more $$$ off with more guns bought or free shipping for the dealer. All the dealer up here usually have one to show with a high price tag.

You can also look online since they are common and have it shipping to your dealer (then he can transfer it).

audphile1

thing is my range would go nuts if i shoot that gun there. I live in New York and go to indoor range. They are very unhappy when they hear 357 go off, so imagine how they would feel if they hear this hand cannon fire... Once in a while though I go to outdoor range in Long Island. I will be there soon and see if they have it. I can rent guns there as well. I just bring my Kimber Gold Match and the 357 Smith. If I see anything else I like, I usually rent it to try it before I go ahead with a purchase. That is a great price you got for that Smith though...

mburnickas

I can shot up to 44 mags inside and I think that is the limit. The recoil and noise is not that bad I feel .

saber

For 2004, corporate Toyota / Lexus got rid of the 7500 mile interval and replaced it with a 5000 mile interval (for all models and all engines). That's a good hint corporate Toyota / Lexus has found the 7500 mile interval is not always adequate to protect the engine against excessive wear and sludge.

mburnickas

I disagree since if it was for “adequate to protect the engine” they would grandfather all the old Lexus into this new sooner service interval. Based on them changing it, only for 2004 only raises more questions. Don’t forget Lexus wants you to bring the car in sooner since it is $$$ in their pocket. Anything to get you in sooner is better, for them.

It is either due to a poor design that can’t handle the oil or it is to protect LEXUS from any issues, for example, the sludge issue. Also there is again, no proof that the 5K is even needed. Lets see the fact that state it is? Another example that shows that people just do what there are told and never ask “why, how come, what reason….” This is almost as good as Lexus stating, “Even when synthetic oils are used you can't extend the interval. Or you can't switch back to dino after synthetic. I guess Lexus thinks there people are morons or clueless.

I know my 7,500 mile interval on my 98 ES is a total and under waste of time, money & oil.

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

Guys,

Thank you in advance for keeping this thread on topic and being respectful of other forum members. Let's keep it that way please .

PitBull

I think your right when you say that most Lexus owners are morans when it comes to the technology that the Lexus product represents, the Lexus salesmen I've talked too refect this. I think the Lexus owners that belong to this website are not typical Lexus owners, they are interested in what works best for their vehicle. I am sure you can't go wrong following your owners manuals advise for oil/filter changes and other service recommendations. I'm sure that most members of this site would tend to over maintain there Lexus versus under maintain. It's obvious that a synthetic oil that is the correct weight and rated higher then the minimum dino oil that is recommended in your owner manual will do a better job of protecting your investment as long as it is changed at the right interval. Now you would need to do oil analysis to determine the correct interval which is a pain in the butt and most owners won't go to that much trouble. So use the best oil you can and change it based on Lexus recommended interval and you should never have a oil related failure. Unless you have one of the Toyota sludge engines, but if you do you already know that

mburnickas

You would only know if you have a sludge engine by one of two things. Either your car smokes and has/is broken down or by an oil analysis (based on results).

Some people think they are a pain but they are only needed once, one time to determin an approx drain interval for your car/engine with that oil. Plus they are not a pain since it is like $14 to find a lot of nice info on the oil being used. If you think they are a pain then I guess you should not own such in fine automobile! It cost more to fill the gas tank or a case of Corona!

Why spend the money for a nice synthetic oil and dump it after 5K miles? If you spend the $14 you can find out how to maximize YOUR money and still provide better protection then dino oil.

Example, I had another Club Lexus post his oil test with about 5K miles. My had over 12K (2.4X longer) and the results were better, figure that out. So it is either the oil in the 5K is junk or his engine is putting more stress on the oil. If I were him I would switch to a better oil and see how the results compare.

Lastly, oil analysis are nice to see what MIGHT be happening to the engine. If you have copper or Aluminum threw the roof you got bearing or xxxx problems. If you have a lot of fuel in the oil, check injectors, etc….So the $14 could save you money down the raod….

Ok, of my 100% synthetic oil box.

PitBull

I thought Lexus IDed the V-6 engines that were the sludge engines and corrected the problem or extended the warranty on the engines that had that problem? What I normally do is run dino oil and have the dealer handle the oil/filter changes while the vehicle is under warranty and then switch to Mobil 1 after the warranty is up. I normally would change at around 5-7K miles with the mobil 1 and never had any oil related problems. Had 135K miles on my 95 Landcruiser when I sold it. I'm sure the LC would of been fine for that mileage and more with just dino juice and 5K mile changes. JMHO

mburnickas

Lexus did not correct any problem in their engine at their time interval. From the Letters I received from Lexus, they stated that the sludge was from people that went forever with dino oils.

Yes, they extended the warranty and it is for 8-years from the original purchase date and un-limited miles. Also the letters from Lexes never stated any oil drain interval in there. ..go figure

Next is why use dino and have the dealer do it? Are you that worried about some warranty???? I have never ever done oil drains, on any car, per any manual since I have been driving and never had a problem.

Also the oil and filter are not integral to any warranty. They cannot just say, you voided any warranty based on something you have done. They have to prove you did something wrong. It is not as simple as any piece of paper or taking some customer word. Today’s corporations will not trust any and will need to run tests.

In today’s computer world some oil sales slip, recycle station slips showing you dropped of a "liquid" (notice I did not say engine oil since the people working there do not care) is not going to cover your behind.

When funds are involved, they will dig deeper then that. They have to prove you are at fault and unless some oil tests is done, they can't prove you wrong since they can't prove the oil failed nor the length of its' service. This issue has been brought up time-and-time again. I have been doing extended oil drains and so fair no dealer can do anything about it nor affect my warranty. Ford, Lexus, Suzuki, Mercedes, Kubota

The only one manual I do 180 degree differently is one for my GSX-R1100. Suzuki states to only change the oil filter every other oil drain. I do it once per year.

Yes Mobil 1 is good but I would look at their oil test results against other oils at the same price. Last time I looked there oil ZDDP was too low for me. Never mind there ever dropping TBN during use.