I keep seeing people comparing the ES with the LS500. I got an ES as a loaner and drove it for a couple of days. Yes the car is great and feels nimble and all. But its no where near the LS.

The LS feels luxurious, drive luxuriously, and it is comfortable. I bet if you calculate the cost of parts/components that make the LS ride as comfortable as it is, you’ll realize it’s of better value than ES!

I admit, the S Class is my childhood dream car. And currently I’ve been drooling over that ugly new 7 series. But LS500 is the absolute best value when considering price, quality, and luxury.

The only thing I would really trade-in the LS for immediately is the new LX and thats only because the roads over here are getting nasty and no longer well maintained.

 

​​​​​​The TX might not even be offered in RHD, because of TMMI not even being equipped to assemble those configurations and Toyota feeling it is too big for international markets.

Akio Toyoda has given the impression that he doesn't Lexus as the brand for practicality and feels since he has the Toyota division, that people who want large crossovers should just stick to near luxury or make do with the existing lineup.
That was to save face, considering multiple attempts over the last 2 decades to develop a unibody 3 row vehicle above the RX. TX being mentioned as a flagship product has something I've summarily dismissed and that of the engineer working on it, who even had the audacity to say he thinks that the Grand Wagoneer has a much nicer interior than this upcoming Lexus.

I'd consider the 911 to be the halo of the brand like the Wrangler for Jeep and the Panamera to be the flagship, like the 928 was once for Porsche back in the day. The Cayenne and Macan are just the bread & butter for Porsche, with extreme levels of customization, but not flagships in any sense.
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Panamera had RWD origins not shared with any Audi or VW product which has always made it special like the 911. The Cayenne has permanent AWD, but the origins are north-south FWD like Audi. I have never respected it for that reason, once the Panamera cleaned up its act by 2016.

As for Lexus;

I just don't know where they went wrong on the current LS, it's why I signed up here in early 2012. My curiosity over the future flagship and then finding out it wasn't going to be redesigned for another 6 years.

The 2026 LS I hope will fix a number of things going forward, as if that isn't the car to do it, the nameplate is done for.

By the time the 2024 comes out in several months, it will be 3 years since the 2021 MMC. This means that like the previous gen's last days, the nameplate is being allowed to wither on the vine with hardly any updates.

Why was LS allowed to regress, while MB continued to make slam dunks unopposed with the W222 and W223 (to a lesser degree)?

As someone who later got an M760i (upon losing interest), I can understand in some ways it's comparing apples to oranges, but I never liked how convoluted the menu interface for the LS was. Remote Touch was never the overdramatized issue the press made it out to be. However, accessing something as simple as massage settings, was a headache to navigate through on the pre-MMC car compared to my BMW.

I haven't tested a 2021-23 MMC LS, but I hope they fixed that. It's unfortunate when Lexus who is known for more practical solutions, fell behind BMW in that area.

Toyota is a large organization, but I feel the cynical approaches taken with the current LS had Akio Toyoda all over it. If he wanted a Lexus Panamera meets last Jaguar XJ in this car, he needed to make sure it had the power and performance to fully back it up.

Limiting it to just one tune of the V35A-FTS and the seemingly dated 8GR-FKS, never made sense. They tried to develop a Twin-Turbo V8 for ages for some LS F, but are now chucking that into this LFR.

It has never made sense to introduce a vehicle at this level as a 6-cylinder only vehicle, when the competition hadn't even thrown in the towel yet. Toyota took their merry time and found out too late that having both a TT6 and V8 required a UR replacement. Trying to go sportier on top of that, versus emphasizing traditional LS tenets, resulted in much more limited appeal.

I love my spouse's new Panamera GT, but Lexus had no business targeting this vehicle or its sedan counterpart as it's alleged competition.

During Supra A90 development, BMW sources mentioned seeing in January-Feb 2014 at Toyota HQ, a bunch of brand new JP-spec W222 S-Classes lined up. It's almost as if they abandoned that as a benchmark and dropped the ball.

​​​​The future of this nameplate has to either follow BMWs 7/i7 formula as a stop-gap to BEV only and serve both ICE/BEV segments. Or introduce more competitive powertrains. Whether that's new Dynamic Force engines to the LS lineup on GA-L or dropping ICE GA-L altogether, for a BEV only solution.

 

5th LS prob being designed by two different groups of ppl, one of which wanted it to be sporty, and the other one wanted traditional luxury. It ended up being something in between:
- It has somewhat sporty appearance in its segment but does not drive the sportiest
- Regressed ride quality and nvh to previous gen
- Compromised occupant space

I don't mind them going for sportiness, but that naming just doesn't follow suit. It should be LS GT or something like that, with a powertrain that competes well against competition.

 

The infotainment system is not why this car failed to sell.
To get to the message feature you press the button with the seats on it and one more step to turn it on.
The reason the car is not selling is big SUV's for 100k are all the rage.
Luxury cars are for people who don't love to drive. They are wonderful places to spend time in.
I do love to drive and rather have a car. Not truck or large tall SUV. But others think differently.

 

I agree, but I really look forward to sharing behind the scenes development of this car. I have many development images of the LS 200B program, dated from 2011 to 2016. The many different design proposals they came up with from 2012 to 2013, tells me they had big plans that would've even made a bigger statement. Unfortunately the end result just wasn't what it should've been.

Great looking car in terms of the final mockup, but it just doesn't translate well in metal I guess (for me) and other colors. Pre-facelift car looks really good with tinted windows in silver from afar and has presence that way compared to the ES (as it should be). The final mockup Lexus designers created around 2013 was also silver, because the DI NOC material for design mockups is typically that color.

I also recall that this car was designed to be a 2017 MY for late 2016 arrival, but ended up not arriving until early 2018 instead. Both LC and LS were affected by this, in terms of being on time. The next set of changes to the LS are MY 2026, so I find myself disappointed at how Toyota did not take full advantage of an all-new modular platform. The previous LS was less bespoke, in sharing the RWD N Platform with more lowly cars that came before it. The LS 500 deserved so much more than it has gotten, for the type of flag bearer its supposed to be. It's saddening how lukewarm reception has been to it, but at least it's doing better than the A8 LOL.

 

I've owned two 2021 ES hybrids. Nice car, it's why I bought one. But it's a bit too close to the Camry for my tastes. And the Camry (for 2023. vs the 2023 ES) posts slightly superior side-crush measurements in the new IIHS Side Impact 2.0 crash. In short, the current Camry and Corolla has a stronger side structure vs. the ES. Lexus needs to do more to differentiate the ES and the Camry as they're structural and architectural twins. The only "Switch gear" the ES shares with the LS is the steering wheel, side mirrors, and interior door pulls. The rest is 99.99% Camry (aside from veneer stuff like interior panels and exterior sheet metal. The bones (body in white, axle carriers), suspension, powertrain, electronics, closing mechanisms, hinges, latches, etc. are all Camry.

 

I've removed a number of posts that were rude, accused others of lying, intentionally focused on putting down other member's personal vehicle choice, etc.

If you can't post politely and maturely, stay out of this thread.

 

Don't buy an LS500 if you dislike a rare, unique, powerful sedan that is set apart from 9 out of 10 cars on the road.

 

I don't know if it's just hype but, there are some new videos out there on YouTube that are stating that the LS500 will get a major facelift in 2024. It also shows the LS using a Maserati engine for 2024. I am really not sure about that one and they are stating the the HP and torque numbers are the same as the current gen. Just search for 2024 LS500 on YouTube.

 

The absurdity of that is so complete, I don't know where to begin. Don't believe everything you hear on Youtube. The entire ethos of Lexus is polar opposite to Maserati. A buddy of mine used to have a hand in a Maserati dealership. The stories of customer abuse were unbelievable.

 

Someone above mentioned the ES as being close to the LS interior quality, I have a 23 ES and let me tell you after living with it for a while there’s no comparison. Even my wife’s 23 IS350 F Sport has better build quality and materials and feels way more solid on the road. And I still miss my LS430 many years later.

But the visual design of the current ES is pretty darn good inside and out, it does look a lot like a baby LS and I can see them stealing sakes from the LS. But if you’ve ever owned a flagship Japanese or Euro sedan the current ES doesn’t really compete.

I like my ES but it was supposed to be a “treat” for myself and now I’m shopping for a replacement 5 months after buying it. Considering maybe a CPO Porsche Panamera or possibly an LS.

 

I wish Lexus would re-make the LS430, no I'm not joking.

Sadly the industry seems to want over-size wheels that are harsh, run-flat tires that are harsh, and hard seat padding. Who asked for the full size luxury car to be sporty? Not me.

 

Don't bother with the LS500. I had the LS500 and ES300h now. Definitely the Porsche will be a much better car, no question in my mind. I have been thinking about the Panamera hybrid lately but can't choke down the new price. Don't want to buy one without warranty.

 

You should change your handle to the Anti-LS500Fan or LS500Hater and not post in this forum any longer.

 

Yes, it is hard to believe. That is why I posted this. I am in the market for an LS and don't really want to buy a '23 only to find out that the '24 is completely updated. '25 is probably a better bet but I don't know if I want to wait that long. Thanks SpudsMcD

BTW - not to mention that Maserati's engines are not very reliable...