Including depreciation , how much is it costing you to enjoy your LS?
11-03-17, 03:39 PM
#1
Including depreciation , how much is it costing you to enjoy your LS?
I don't know if I'm the only one who gives this topic any thought, but I have been on a very good run for the 10 years or so that I have been owning cars.
Meaning ive been driving them for very little cost and losing very little on resale as well. (sometimes even turning a profit) , so my "cost to own" per year has been very low, and in some cases free or better.
This is mainly because I try to buy lower mileage vehicles , at close to wholesale price as possible, and try not to keep them for longer then 2 years. But it looks like my 460 will be the first car I may take a noticeable loss on upon resale, and I'm wondering how others are doing on their purchases and how they feel about it.
If I sell my car now, after approx. 1 year of ownership, because of the mileage I'm putting on , I can come out of it with approx. a $2500 loss , year two would be approx $5000, year three $7500 etc... (not including maintenance or repair costs)
So it looks like my cost to own will be approx. $2500 per year on average, which in the big picture isn't that bad at all for the kind of vehicle it is, but If I would of purchased an 07 SWB I know I could of brought that price down by quite a bit.
Anyways just wondering what its costing you guys per year to own.
Thanks
Meaning ive been driving them for very little cost and losing very little on resale as well. (sometimes even turning a profit) , so my "cost to own" per year has been very low, and in some cases free or better.
This is mainly because I try to buy lower mileage vehicles , at close to wholesale price as possible, and try not to keep them for longer then 2 years. But it looks like my 460 will be the first car I may take a noticeable loss on upon resale, and I'm wondering how others are doing on their purchases and how they feel about it.
If I sell my car now, after approx. 1 year of ownership, because of the mileage I'm putting on , I can come out of it with approx. a $2500 loss , year two would be approx $5000, year three $7500 etc... (not including maintenance or repair costs)
So it looks like my cost to own will be approx. $2500 per year on average, which in the big picture isn't that bad at all for the kind of vehicle it is, but If I would of purchased an 07 SWB I know I could of brought that price down by quite a bit.
Anyways just wondering what its costing you guys per year to own.
Thanks
11-04-17, 07:49 PM
#2
Pole Position
I'd probably say I'm somewhere close to the numbers you listed, maybe a little less because I have an 07 and only paid $23,000 for it four years ago. If it weren't for the amount of mileage I've put on (nearly a 100,000 since then), it'd probably be worth more. So I'd say $2500 is about right for depreciation per year - at some point it will level off before depreciating again.
I think its tough to "win" with cars today unless you are buying something that has already depreciated a great deal (and is still in great shape). Or you get something as a great deal that needs some work, and then you can flip it and stay ahead of the game.
Or you can just buy and hold for a long term ownership...way past the duration of the loan and go years without payments. If you can hold onto a dependable car for 15 years?? You'll go a good ten years without payments and if you figure you're saving $350 a month on payments...you'll save $42,000. Then you can't really lose. Even if you're throwing a grand a year into repairs, you're still way ahead of the game, plus you can reduce your insurance way down because the bank doesn't own it...you can drop collision, fire and theft, raise your deductibles...and save another $500 a year or more. Of course at that point you really don't care much about the car...and of course at that point you're wishing you had something newer with all that money you saved.
Aside from collectable cars that aren't actually driven, they all end up costing you...and they all end up in the junkyard, stacked on top of each other in puddles of rust. But I actually think collectibles are a decent investment, maybe not at prices I've seen the last few years, but I don't think you're going to actually lose much. But prices for muscle cars have gone through the roof, you can't touch anything decent for less than 40 grand, it's crazy. At those prices I'd worry they're a bit overvalued but then again maybe they're not because they seemed over priced ten years ago and yet they still climbed.
I think its tough to "win" with cars today unless you are buying something that has already depreciated a great deal (and is still in great shape). Or you get something as a great deal that needs some work, and then you can flip it and stay ahead of the game.
Or you can just buy and hold for a long term ownership...way past the duration of the loan and go years without payments. If you can hold onto a dependable car for 15 years?? You'll go a good ten years without payments and if you figure you're saving $350 a month on payments...you'll save $42,000. Then you can't really lose. Even if you're throwing a grand a year into repairs, you're still way ahead of the game, plus you can reduce your insurance way down because the bank doesn't own it...you can drop collision, fire and theft, raise your deductibles...and save another $500 a year or more. Of course at that point you really don't care much about the car...and of course at that point you're wishing you had something newer with all that money you saved.
Aside from collectable cars that aren't actually driven, they all end up costing you...and they all end up in the junkyard, stacked on top of each other in puddles of rust. But I actually think collectibles are a decent investment, maybe not at prices I've seen the last few years, but I don't think you're going to actually lose much. But prices for muscle cars have gone through the roof, you can't touch anything decent for less than 40 grand, it's crazy. At those prices I'd worry they're a bit overvalued but then again maybe they're not because they seemed over priced ten years ago and yet they still climbed.
11-04-17, 09:54 PM
#4
I'd probably say I'm somewhere close to the numbers you listed, maybe a little less because I have an 07 and only paid $23,000 for it four years ago. If it weren't for the amount of mileage I've put on (nearly a 100,000 since then), it'd probably be worth more. So I'd say $2500 is about right for depreciation per year - at some point it will level off before depreciating again.
I think its tough to "win" with cars today unless you are buying something that has already depreciated a great deal (and is still in great shape). Or you get something as a great deal that needs some work, and then you can flip it and stay ahead of the game.
Or you can just buy and hold for a long term ownership...way past the duration of the loan and go years without payments. If you can hold onto a dependable car for 15 years?? You'll go a good ten years without payments and if you figure you're saving $350 a month on payments...you'll save $42,000. Then you can't really lose. Even if you're throwing a grand a year into repairs, you're still way ahead of the game, plus you can reduce your insurance way down because the bank doesn't own it...you can drop collision, fire and theft, raise your deductibles...and save another $500 a year or more. Of course at that point you really don't care much about the car...and of course at that point you're wishing you had something newer with all that money you saved.
Aside from collectable cars that aren't actually driven, they all end up costing you...and they all end up in the junkyard, stacked on top of each other in puddles of rust. But I actually think collectibles are a decent investment, maybe not at prices I've seen the last few years, but I don't think you're going to actually lose much. But prices for muscle cars have gone through the roof, you can't touch anything decent for less than 40 grand, it's crazy. At those prices I'd worry they're a bit overvalued but then again maybe they're not because they seemed over priced ten years ago and yet they still climbed.
I think its tough to "win" with cars today unless you are buying something that has already depreciated a great deal (and is still in great shape). Or you get something as a great deal that needs some work, and then you can flip it and stay ahead of the game.
Or you can just buy and hold for a long term ownership...way past the duration of the loan and go years without payments. If you can hold onto a dependable car for 15 years?? You'll go a good ten years without payments and if you figure you're saving $350 a month on payments...you'll save $42,000. Then you can't really lose. Even if you're throwing a grand a year into repairs, you're still way ahead of the game, plus you can reduce your insurance way down because the bank doesn't own it...you can drop collision, fire and theft, raise your deductibles...and save another $500 a year or more. Of course at that point you really don't care much about the car...and of course at that point you're wishing you had something newer with all that money you saved.
Aside from collectable cars that aren't actually driven, they all end up costing you...and they all end up in the junkyard, stacked on top of each other in puddles of rust. But I actually think collectibles are a decent investment, maybe not at prices I've seen the last few years, but I don't think you're going to actually lose much. But prices for muscle cars have gone through the roof, you can't touch anything decent for less than 40 grand, it's crazy. At those prices I'd worry they're a bit overvalued but then again maybe they're not because they seemed over priced ten years ago and yet they still climbed.
I passed up a few great deals on some 07 swb's and paid the premium for the low mileage L that I ended up with. The L was a bucket list item for me and I'm glad I got to own one.
It is tough to win but I found the best way to keep your costs down would be to buy cars close to the ten year old age, they have already depreciated drastically but they are still new enough to enjoy, and if you buy the right car you can usually get 1-2-3 years of very little cost/depreciation out of them, which is what ive been doing.
The guys who buy new really pay a big price , but they got the money to play that kind of game so maybe it doesn't bother them.
And yes the muscle car market is a little weird, it goes up and down. Right now its up but I don't see many of them actually selling, ive done very well with the two vettes ive owned, I'm hoping to find a third one soon.
I was just trying to see how other people feel about their car depreciation and cost, but looks like most of them don't pay it as much thought as I do
Ty for the reply
11-05-17, 04:07 AM
#7
Pole Position
*****, I agree 100%, Corvettes are very steady in the market, especially ones that are ten years old. They reach a price point and they just stay that way for years, you can buy one...hold on to it for a few years, maybe put 10,000 miles on it, and sell it for what you bought it for (maybe more if you got a great deal on it). I did that once, and once and a while I take a look to see what the vette I sold is going for now and it's virtually the same price - and I sold it five years ago. It's still going for the same value!! Unbelievable.
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11-05-17, 06:53 AM
#8
Lexus Fanatic
Just depreciation cost, and not factoring in maintenance, repairs, fueling, etc?
So for me I suppose its the annual cost of the lease payments, so $11,400. Now, I did have it appraised a few months ago when I considered swapping out for a 2017 LWB, I was offered $45,000 essentially two years in, original MSRP was $80,000, I paid about $70,000, meaning in depreciation my annual cost would have been approximately $12,500, so I've saved a little over $1,000 a year by leasing, not taking into account the considerable tax benefits. I probably save $5,000 a year in taxes based on that ownership (just on the lease payment, more on all the other costs of operating the vehicle), so in actual vehicle cost it costs me about $6,500 a year to drive the LS.
So for me I suppose its the annual cost of the lease payments, so $11,400. Now, I did have it appraised a few months ago when I considered swapping out for a 2017 LWB, I was offered $45,000 essentially two years in, original MSRP was $80,000, I paid about $70,000, meaning in depreciation my annual cost would have been approximately $12,500, so I've saved a little over $1,000 a year by leasing, not taking into account the considerable tax benefits. I probably save $5,000 a year in taxes based on that ownership (just on the lease payment, more on all the other costs of operating the vehicle), so in actual vehicle cost it costs me about $6,500 a year to drive the LS.
11-05-17, 08:01 AM
#9
Lexus Fanatic
Every car loses money for me. I just accept it as I do with respect to putting gas in it. I love the car so I don't put any thought into it. My bigger concern would be reliability and putting money into repairs like I did with my BMW. THAT was concerning, frustrating and a pain in the butt. My LS gives me zero grief, is pretty, nice to drive and that's all I care about.
11-05-17, 02:06 PM
#10
I'm just going by the market and how its priced. One of my favorite past times is trolling the used car sites and seeing whats on the market and how much its going for etc...
I'm trying to be as realistic as I can, I'm not judging by what the cars are listed for , if i was I would be under the impression that I can turn my car over right now at a $5000+ profit after 1 year of ownership, but I know that cars rarely sell for the high retail people ask.
From my experience the only way you can find a buyer in this crowded market is by having an asking price that is lower then the other guys, so I'm basing it on that.
That's exactly correct, the C5 vettes right now are the best deal given their age, they have bottomed out and now are valued based on mileage and condition. Just find the right seller who is motivated to sell and you can do very well.
The C6's, especially the Z06's, they are still holding a high value and once that drops the owner will take a big hit, so I'm not interested in those at all. I'm looking to get another C5 z06 hopefully supercharged.
Vipers are another car that I think are a fairly safe bet , the gen 2's or early gen 3's.
That's less then I thought , $6500 annually for a brand new car is not bad actually
I'm trying to get into that mindset for the 460. I have a brand new set of kyb struts and tananbe lowering springs here in a box, if I do end up making the swap I'm pretty sure I will just keep the car for a few more years and live with whatever depreciation comes with it
I would never be able to enjoy a bmw or benz because along with the depreciation you have a very real factor of repairs and maintenance to deal with , I would never be able to relax and enjoy the car at all.
I'm trying to be as realistic as I can, I'm not judging by what the cars are listed for , if i was I would be under the impression that I can turn my car over right now at a $5000+ profit after 1 year of ownership, but I know that cars rarely sell for the high retail people ask.
From my experience the only way you can find a buyer in this crowded market is by having an asking price that is lower then the other guys, so I'm basing it on that.
*****, I agree 100%, Corvettes are very steady in the market, especially ones that are ten years old. They reach a price point and they just stay that way for years, you can buy one...hold on to it for a few years, maybe put 10,000 miles on it, and sell it for what you bought it for (maybe more if you got a great deal on it). I did that once, and once and a while I take a look to see what the vette I sold is going for now and it's virtually the same price - and I sold it five years ago. It's still going for the same value!! Unbelievable.
The C6's, especially the Z06's, they are still holding a high value and once that drops the owner will take a big hit, so I'm not interested in those at all. I'm looking to get another C5 z06 hopefully supercharged.
Vipers are another car that I think are a fairly safe bet , the gen 2's or early gen 3's.
Just depreciation cost, and not factoring in maintenance, repairs, fueling, etc?
So for me I suppose its the annual cost of the lease payments, so $11,400. Now, I did have it appraised a few months ago when I considered swapping out for a 2017 LWB, I was offered $45,000 essentially two years in, original MSRP was $80,000, I paid about $70,000, meaning in depreciation my annual cost would have been approximately $12,500, so I've saved a little over $1,000 a year by leasing, not taking into account the considerable tax benefits. I probably save $5,000 a year in taxes based on that ownership (just on the lease payment, more on all the other costs of operating the vehicle), so in actual vehicle cost it costs me about $6,500 a year to drive the LS.
So for me I suppose its the annual cost of the lease payments, so $11,400. Now, I did have it appraised a few months ago when I considered swapping out for a 2017 LWB, I was offered $45,000 essentially two years in, original MSRP was $80,000, I paid about $70,000, meaning in depreciation my annual cost would have been approximately $12,500, so I've saved a little over $1,000 a year by leasing, not taking into account the considerable tax benefits. I probably save $5,000 a year in taxes based on that ownership (just on the lease payment, more on all the other costs of operating the vehicle), so in actual vehicle cost it costs me about $6,500 a year to drive the LS.
Every car loses money for me. I just accept it as I do with respect to putting gas in it. I love the car so I don't put any thought into it. My bigger concern would be reliability and putting money into repairs like I did with my BMW. THAT was concerning, frustrating and a pain in the butt. My LS gives me zero grief, is pretty, nice to drive and that's all I care about.
I would never be able to enjoy a bmw or benz because along with the depreciation you have a very real factor of repairs and maintenance to deal with , I would never be able to relax and enjoy the car at all.
11-05-17, 02:08 PM
#11
This is why I just took my 08 off the market. I realized what I was giving up in terms of luxury and value for an inadequate amount of money (sales price). Mine only has 90k on it and it has zero maintenance issues that are needed. It costs me $40/month full coverage and in my 2 years of ownership I haven't done anything except for oil changes. If I am going to lose on a car, I'm going to lose on one that puts a smile on my face when I drive it.
11-05-17, 02:46 PM
#12
I bought my 2007 for $25,500 from a private party in 2014 and got $15,000 for it this year, 3 years later, after I traded it in. The trade in price was about average against a CPO 2014 LS460. $10,500 over 3 years is $3500 a year. I think that is the ABSOLUTE lowest anyone will pay in depreciation of an LS460. Add to that $600 a year in insurance and $600 a year in property taxes, $500 a year in maintenance, we're at $5200 a year. Add gas ($1000 a year for 10,000 miles) and we're at $6200. (I'm not including the 3 year Lexus platinum warranty, as that was optional - $3000 but it paid for $1500 in covered repairs - you can add an extra $1000 a year if you include that).
When looking at used car prices, asking price is meaningless. You need to know what the cars actually sold for.
When looking at used car prices, asking price is meaningless. You need to know what the cars actually sold for.
Last edited by sktn77a; 11-05-17 at 02:51 PM. Reason: Selling price vs asking price.
11-05-17, 08:41 PM
#14
I bought my 2007 for $25,500 from a private party in 2014 and got $15,000 for it this year, 3 years later, after I traded it in. The trade in price was about average against a CPO 2014 LS460. $10,500 over 3 years is $3500 a year. I think that is the ABSOLUTE lowest anyone will pay in depreciation of an LS460. Add to that $600 a year in insurance and $600 a year in property taxes, $500 a year in maintenance, we're at $5200 a year. Add gas ($1000 a year for 10,000 miles) and we're at $6200. (I'm not including the 3 year Lexus platinum warranty, as that was optional - $3000 but it paid for $1500 in covered repairs - you can add an extra $1000 a year if you include that).
When looking at used car prices, asking price is meaningless. You need to know what the cars actually sold for.
When looking at used car prices, asking price is meaningless. You need to know what the cars actually sold for.
11-06-17, 04:06 AM
#15
Depends where you live. Some states, like Virginia, assess a yearly tax on all vehicles based on current value - https://taxes.arlingtonva.us/vehicles/vehicle-taxes/