Doublebase

Honda, Subaru, and Audi have made an effort to replace their oil rings...as far as I know BMW has not. I know with Honda they have extended the warranties on their 6 cylinders found in the Ridgline, Accord, Vans and 4 cylinders in the CRV. These aren't the only companies out there fixing their ring problem, I believe GM has some issues going on as well.

Until manufactures find a way to make a reliable vehicle in their never ending quest to improve fuel economy and meet CAFE regulations, people should be careful about what they purchase during this time period. These are major issues. And I know BMW hasn't stepped up and fixed their problem, their solution was to cut the recommended oil change intervals in half, and reprogram the computer. Neither is fixing the problem, obviously.

roadfrog

After some research and thinking, I've decided to give 5W30 a shot and see what happens with consumption. Not sure if I can get a synthetic TGMO 5w30 or not. I'll check with my dealer this coming week. If not, I may try an off the shelf 5w30 syn from Walmart. This is more of an exoperiment than anything else, since I'm not actually cioncerned about the consumption, but rather, curious on whether it will be remedied with a higher vis oil.

Oro

If your OCI accomodates it (before winter), or you live in coastal BC, consider a 10w-30. This will give some boost to your burning experiment.

The difference in HTHS and NOACK between the 5ws and 10ws is substantial in some brands. The more robsut base stock and fewer VIIs make a huge difference. I think the NOACK of PP 10w-30 is 5%, which is remarkable. We have a 4gen ES and I run 7.5k mile OCIs. I went from using 1/2 to 3/4 qt in that interval with 5w-30, to a barely noticeable amount 5k miles into my current OCI. The engine currently has just over 250k miles on it and has had no engine work other than TB changes.

Doublebase

I think when you have an engine that spaces for 0w20/5w20, you might be pushing it a little bit by putting 10w30 in it. There's a lot going on in these engines...lots of valves, timing chain, variable valve timing, etc.

Doublebase

It's funny you mention that, tomorrow I'm changing my oil, I'm right at the 5k mile mark, and I'm going with a heavier weight. What I'm going to try is sort of a blend/cocktail...I'm mixing 6 quarts of 5w30 with 3.1 quarts of 5w20. It's the same brand of synthetic.

It's not that I consider burning a quart of oil in 6k miles bad or extreme, it's just that I don't want it to get worse and I'm starting to think it could. A heavier weight oil offers more protection, with the way I drive I don't think I'll lose any fuel advantages with the heavier weight (mostly highway). What I'm concerned about is engine protection because I'm planning on going way over 200k miles on this thing...most likely 300k.

roadfrog

Yeah, I won't go 10W. Definitely 5W for cold start protection. It doesn't get cold here, but I want to be sure the engine gets good oil flow when first starting up.

Like you Doublebase, I'm not remotely concerned about adding a qt every 3 or 4k miles. As I said, I'm more interested in what a change in oil weight will do.

superdenso

5w30-> Go 4 it!

roadfrog

Yeah....I'm gonna. I went to my Toyota dealer yesterday to check on availability and price of TGMO 5W30. They do stock it, but they don't stock it in bulk, which doubles the price. I pay 6 bucks per liter for 0W20 and the 5W30 is 12 per bottle (no 1 gal jugs). So, this leaves me with only Mobil 1 etc. I'm currently reviewing high moly oils, and Mobil 1 seems to have at least double the moly of most others (112ppm). Chevron and Redline also has high moly, as does Amsoil (but way too expensive). Many of Royal Purple's products have ZERO, so that's out. I'm leaning towards Mobil1 which I can find everywhere, for a good price. I also considered Rotella 5W40.

Doublebase

Mobil 1 has a rebate deal going on with their oil right now, it's a pretty good deal. I think you can save around $13 on their 5 quart jugs.

Penzoil has a decent moly count and it's on sale at Walmart right now too.

Oro

Understandable, but with freezing+ temps, that's not going to help you. IT's not as simple as "5w is always thinner." In fact, there are temps where the 5w is actually THICKER than the 10w (because of base differences in formulation).

If you were talking -10C, -20C, the 5w would have a slight edge. At around freezing or above, there's no real difference in how fast it will get through the galleries and to the internals. Your real start-up protection is the oil that clings to parts, and there the edge goes to (most) synthetic 10w-30. The fact is a lot of them are made of 30 base stock that flows so well, it has little or no VII polymers. 5w-30 on the other hand starts as a 5w and then has VIIs added to it to make it thicken. And these are what shear and cause loss of thickness with use; base oil does not. It also helps explain why NOACK, HTHS, etc. can be so different between 5w-30 and 10w-30, and the latter be such a more robust, durable oil and burn less with use.

5w can have an edge in cars really abused with high use at high rpms; the VIIs will thicken it more there vs. an unadelterated 30 weight. But, it won't last as long and thin out much faster. So for a tracked car, a 5w-30 could have and edge there. But then, if that is the case there are better oils with better film strength to offer than even the very best 5w-30.

Among the M1 oils, the HMs have a lot better add pac and HTH than the non - check those out. There is a great rebate now until the end of May, but I don't know if it applies in Canada and don't think so.

Rhambler

I was going to request an oil change @ 5k miles, but after reading Bob the oil guy's website, they actually don't recommend that?

I can't find the link, but one of their well-known members said that the oil cleaning process/detergents in oil needs a certain mileage to work, or something to that effect, and recommends doing oil changes once per year based on basic driving.

Any thoughts?

Doublebase

What most people will tell you is to get an oil analysis done by blackstone labs, but that will cost you $25. Also there are some people that claim that those tests don't tell the entire story; I've read that the larger particles don't register on their tests and because of that it's difficult to determine how accurate, or how much "engine wear" you are experiencing.

I want to say I've read that there is a point during an oil's life that the additive pack becomes less abrasive to the engine - which might be what you're referring to in terms of oil change intervals - but keep in mind that as soon as you start your car after an oil change, there is soot and carbon deposits being forced into your oil...those are abrasive as well. The longer they're in there, the more wear occurs. An additive pack will try to combat that with dispersants but sooner than later it will become saturated. Yes there are detergents in an oil that clean your engine, but going longer on oil change intervals can lead to the varnish that those detergents are responsible to clean. Then there are the people that believe in the "sweet spots of their oil and filters", but I don't believe the mileage you do is measurable in terms of conditions...there's too many variables in each day, never mind over the course of 5,000...to even 10,000 miles. No one really knows...not Blackstone...not the Bob Is The Oil Guy crowd...not me. But I'd be willing to guess you certainly won't be harming your engine by changing the oil at 5,000 miles. And keep in mind that half the guys on Bob is the oil guy, know little to nothing about cars. In fact there's a lot of people running around on car message boards that aren't all that knowledgable about cars, but they've become "experts" because of the things they've written, read and argued over. It's probably the same on all the medical message boards, but the consequences are much greater when you listen to some of the Internet "doctors".

roadfrog

No rebates in my area, but Canadian Tire has a special on this week on their Castrol Edge Synthetic. It's 40% off right now. Think I'll go for it. here's the info:http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/ca...7#.VuRUUeYg-f4

Doublebase

I'm about 1200 miles into my oil change interval using Napa Full Synthetic 5w30. So far there's been no oil loss - I wasn't expecting any this soon anyway - but I have noticed a slight drop in fuel economy.

Usually on a tank of gas with the driving I do, I can average 26.2 mpg. With the 5w30 its dropped a bit to around 25.7 on three tank fills. And I have also changed over to my summer tires since then, which normally helps me out a little in fuel economy, plus the weather has been warmer around here (which always helps out my fuel economy).

I'll check back in a couple thousand miles to report if oil usage has improved and if fuel economy goes back up. Still I'm only talking about a half a mile per gallon difference.

roadfrog

I bought the Castrol. Still have another 1500 miles or so to go before I change my current oil with it. Looks like Doublebase and I are the guinea pigs on this one.