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does anyone out there know how to change the transmission fluid. I know the tranny is sealed but Lexus changes it at 120k (recommended). I want to change it now. my car has 110k miles on it. does anyone out there know how to change that fluid, or where is a Lexus service manual that tells the tech how to change the fluid?
For the price my Toyota dealer charges, I let them do mine. I paid about 149 dollars. Just not worth the effort and time to do it myself (and I'm a hardcore DIY'er). There's lots more to it than just draining and filling. Certain transmission temperatures have to be met while doing the procedure.
I asked the toyota dealer here and they wanted $200 or $300 if it uses WS fluid (which it does).
I don't see how any dealer could charge $149 as the WS fluid sells for over $9/quart. At 14+ quarts they'd barely cover their cost of fluid and we know dealers are not charitable organizations.
You won't be changing out 9 qts. Same with the dealer. Unless you do several drain and flushes, you'll only be replacing 3-4 qts of World Standard (WS) fluid, in one service. Hence, the 149 dollars charge. This is done with Techstream and meets Toyota/Lexus' service requirements.
OK, I just finished mine. My car is just under 100K miles, like by 300 miles or so.
I also dropped the pan and changed the filter, which was pretty easy. The filter I bought from Rock Auto, it was a Beck Arnley brand for about $27. It comes with a new pan gasket. The pan has 3 small magnets...when you clean the pan be sure to put these back in place as they are there to catch and hold metallic particles.
On the fluid change, I did things a little differently....
1) I used Valvoline MaxLife fluid. It's currently on sale at Autozone for $16/gallon. I bought, and used, 4 gallons.
Why did I use non-OEM fluid? It's far less money ($37/gallon for WS), it says on the bottle it is a substitute for Toyota WS, and I am confident Valvoline knows their oils. Moreover, there is a long thread (or rather several threads) on the Toyota board where many guys are using MaxLife with no issues in place of WS. There's probably some truth to the idea that Toyota specifies WS to bolster their parts sales.
2) I didn't see myself pumping 16 quarts of fluid into the trans through a 16 ounce suction pump gun, all through a hole that's hard to access on the side of the trans.
Instead, I made my own 'fluid changing machine' similar to the dealer's. I removed the driver's side cooler line at the radiator. I attached a length of 3/8" fuel hose (Autozone) with a 1/4 turn valve at the end (Home Depot) to the metal pipe that comes out of the radiator. This allows me to flow fluid out of the transmission's pressure side in a regulated manner. Next, I used a 3/8" union to attach a hose to the cooler line that runs back to the trans. I also used a 1/4 turn valve so I could control any backflow.
By running the engine, and opening the pressure side valve, I let 2 quarts dump into a graduated 5 gallon bucket (Lowes $4). Then I shut the valve, and opened the other valve, and pumped 2 quarts back into the trans. With the engine running the whole time, I repeated this procedure until I had gone through all 16 quarts, and of course by then the fluid was new looking. I pumped in about 1 quart more than came out to make the fluid level check easier.
To pump the fluid, I used a Small Block Chrysler oil pump Autozone $36 (like from a 318/340/360) and drove it with a 1/2" electric drill. In an aside, I'll tell you that it is incredible how fast an engine oil pump can pump.....even spinning the drill slowly (maybe 50RPM), I could pump 2 quarts in 10-15 seconds.
I'll reiterate that my 'home-brew' method is basically the same as the fancy machines the dealer uses, just less pretty.
3) I read the procedure others were kind enough to post on how to check the oil level based on temperature accessed through a lot of gearshift lever moving. I figured I would get off easy by using my scanner but I was wrong as my scanner did not read trans temp. Faced with the hassle of 'the procedure' and the fact that I am inherently lazy, I decided to try something different.... I used my infrared temp gun to shoot the bottom of the trans pan. I read 115F. Since we are allowed a window of 115F - 130F, and I figured the oil inside had to be at least a little hotter, I went ahead and pulled the overflow plug and let the fluid drain to a thin flow. As a backup, I shot the oil that came out and it read 124F so I feel I was OK in that regard. Frankly, using a wire to jumper pins on the OBD port sounds like a miserable pain in my back and with my eyesight I was afraid I'd take forever to get the right ports.
Final comments:
1) If I didn't have a lift in my garage, I wouldn't have done, or recommend, this as a DIY job. When I turned 35 I promised myself I was done lying on my back under cars and I've never looked back. The hassle of getting a car up in the air on all four corners using ramps or jackstands would tip it in favor of paying a shop to do it.
2) I spent around $150 in fluid,filter, and the valves/oil pump. This is about a $150 savings over the dealer's quote of $300. Not a lot of money, but I have the pump/valves/hoses left over in case I want to do another vehicle. Plus the filter change, I'm sure, would have been another $100. So anyway I'm probably $200 give or take fatter in the wallet for about 4 hours of work. Plus I didn't have to waste time dropping/picking up the car at the dealer.
I like how innovative you were in doing this, I know you said you didn't want to use a pump, but for $7 bucks you could have used this...
And easily pumped it in...takes 5 minutes...the tube fits right in. They sell it at Harbor Freight, Walmart, tractor supply companies, auto part stores.
And that is a great idea using your temp gun to measure the transmission pan, I'll do that next time and save myself the hassle of jumping the pins at the DLC.
Let us know how the Valvoline transmission fluid works out for you, I too have heard of people using it in their toyotas with good results. The transmission in this car is a pretty darn reliable piece of machinery, good to see someone taking the time to make sure it's maintained properly. I'm due for another transmission service - I'll be doing a simple drain and fill this time around - last time I dropped the pan, changed the filter and gasket, then did two drain and fills.
You won't be changing out 9 qts. Same with the dealer. Unless you do several drain and flushes, you'll only be replacing 3-4 qts of World Standard (WS) fluid, in one service. Hence, the 149 dollars charge. This is done with Techstream and meets Toyota/Lexus' service requirements.
Ah, OK I see. But IMO the dealer should be doing a full flush by using a 'flush machine' which gets all or most of the old fluid out. I asked the tech at the Toyota dealer if that is how they do it and he said 'yes' though I am not convinced he really knew.
In any case my trans has 'most' or its fluid fresh now so hopefully I won't have to think about it for a long time or maybe forever!
Good job. It's a pleasure to get a thorough motorhead's writeup. I just bought an LS460 and came to CL hoping to find more mechanical/fixit posts. There don't seem to be many, especially compared to the Porsche and BMW sites.
Good job. It's a pleasure to get a thorough motorhead's writeup. I just bought an LS460 and came to CL hoping to find more mechanical/fixit posts. There don't seem to be many, especially compared to the Porsche and BMW sites.
Well that's probably because compared to a BMW or Porsche, you're not going to need as many fix it, type of situations.
You'll find the usual control arm threads on here, the brake replacement threads and a few "how to do's", but the cars are pretty reliable. And for the most part the LS460 hasn't reached the modification stage yet...where a lot of people are dropping them and putting performance parts in. It's not really that type of car.
I spoke with a buddy of mine at the Lexus dealership, and he said that the tranny is sealed (which we all know), and that the reason why Lexus needs a machine to change the fluid, is because the SEAL is done by the computer or something like that. how did you get that fixed if you removed the bottom of the tranny.
Well...a seal is a mechanical item, and a computer deals in electrons. So there's no way a computer can 'seal' a transmission.
I think the term 'sealed' translates to 'we realized we could save $1 per car, and really help our service group's revenues, if we eliminate the dipstick.'
This subject has been exhausted over on the 430 forums, and the 90% consensus is that the only way to go is a DRAIN AND FILL, not a flush. Flushing could potentially "mix up" bits and pieces in the transmission and "shock" it. I've heard of a few failures from doing the full flush. The tried and true way is to slowly introduce new fluid to the transmission. It's idiot proof, and I haven't seen one reported problem from it.
Apparently the 6 and 8 spd are very similar designs, just with a 2 gear difference.
I actually was going to do the flush on mine but am glad I did some research. Absolutely not. Drain and fill. There's a mother thread over there. One fellow member has D&Fd his 3 times over 15k or so and the fluid now looks brand new. He even sent his new fluid to a lab for analysis and they said based on the fluid they'd guess it's a transmission with like 30k on it.
Just trying to help!! Our cars are older so I guess we address this subject more.
Also, I would STRONGLY ADVISE AGAINST USING ANYTHING OTHER THAN TOYOTA WS FLUID!
This subject has been exhausted over on the 430 forums, and the 90% consensus is that the only way to go is a DRAIN AND FILL, not a flush. Flushing could potentially "mix up" bits and pieces in the transmission and "shock" it. I've heard of a few failures from doing the full flush. The tried and true way is to slowly introduce new fluid to the transmission. It's idiot proof, and I haven't seen one reported problem from it.
Apparently the 6 and 8 spd are very similar designs, just with a 2 gear difference.
I actually was going to do the flush on mine but am glad I did some research. Absolutely not. Drain and fill. There's a mother thread over there. One fellow member has D&Fd his 3 times over 15k or so and the fluid now looks brand new. He even sent his new fluid to a lab for analysis and they said based on the fluid they'd guess it's a transmission with like 30k on it.
Just trying to help!! Our cars are older so I guess we address this subject more.
Also, I would STRONGLY ADVISE AGAINST USING ANYTHING OTHER THAN TOYOTA WS FLUID!
Agree 100% to your observations. A true tranny flush can potentially cause more problems than it prevents. I'm not sure t's ever been proven that flushing is risky, but it makes sense, especially in older transmissions that have weaker seals, etc. Regardless, I prefer the recommendation to simply drain and fill, as per the manufacturers requirements. That is the consensus among the "experts" out there, who also state that if you insist on doing a true flush, that you change the filter AFTER the flush. Yes, you'll end up replacing fresh fluid, but you'll be replacing a filter that has now picked up a bunch of debris and contaminants that the flush addressed. Which raises the question for me......if the flush DOES agitate any debris, what if some of that debris hangs up on a valve?
Same with the WS fluid. Just because Valvoline recommends their product as a replacement for WS, doesn't mean it actually meets Lexus/Toyota's spec. For the nominal price difference for a service you'll only do twice or maybe three times in the vehicle's life, why risk it? A good example of products that "meet spec" or are recommended by a manufacturer, is spark plugs for our cars. Everyone who has tried anything but Denso plugs in their LS has come to realize the folly in doing so. Yes the Denso's are expensive in comparison to the others, but they work, because they're specifically designed for our cars. There are other examples, (diff fluids in the AWD versions of our vehicles, and in my case, not using TGMO oil). In any case, I'm not suggesting that one will experience any issues, I'm just not prepared to risk it for the sake of a few dollars.
10-18-15, 10:44 AM
LS460 tranmission fluid change???????
