Where are the 600h's ?
08-04-15, 01:35 AM
#16
Pit Crew
Thread Starter
Thanks for all the replies guys 
My 600h "Executive" is registered 07-2009, so it's the first model. It's a SWB, no leather on the dash, no entertainment in the back. I do have as standard: LED headlights, motorized trunk opener/closer, soft door close thingy, heated and ventilated chairs with three memory's and adaptive cruise control. So nothing special.
My 600h "Executive" is registered 07-2009, so it's the first model. It's a SWB, no leather on the dash, no entertainment in the back. I do have as standard: LED headlights, motorized trunk opener/closer, soft door close thingy, heated and ventilated chairs with three memory's and adaptive cruise control. So nothing special.
08-04-15, 05:17 AM
#17
Pole Position
two reasons:
a) except for 2008 and 2009 model years the LSh never sold well in the US. Blame the economic collapse and the price of oil dropping at that time. This also affects their availability on the used market. I looked for almost 2 years for my LSh and was about to give up.
b) Lexus kind of misjudged the hybrid market in the US for this car.
To be sure the LSh is an amazing car (even today 8 years after it went on sale) but in the US hybrid means fuel economy. The slightly better FE of the hybrid didn't cut it for most people; nor did the USD 30K price differential. Nobody is impressed when I tell them what my mileage is; after they figure out it's a hybrid.
Cars here are taxed on price; not CO2 emissions so there was no way to recover that offset. I think the thinking among most people in that price range was that the cost of fuel is inconsequential compared to the car; so those dollars might be better spent with something that had an AMG stapled to the back of it. Or something with a bunch of turbos bolted onto it at least.
The whole 'performance hybrid' thing never really caught on; and people were kind of horrified at the fact that the EPA rates the LSh mileage as seemingly lower than the RWD SWB car. And the 0-60 time is also slower.
At least on paper. On the road this car feels much much faster than the numbers give it credit for. Midrange pickup is almost Tesla-like in it's speed and intensity. I've gotten 27-28 mpg on long drives and 21-23 mpg consistently in town (so long as it's not a 2 minute drive to the corner). Name one other 438hp AWD car with this much luxury and speed that can do that. But alas it's lost on some people.
a) except for 2008 and 2009 model years the LSh never sold well in the US. Blame the economic collapse and the price of oil dropping at that time. This also affects their availability on the used market. I looked for almost 2 years for my LSh and was about to give up.
b) Lexus kind of misjudged the hybrid market in the US for this car.
To be sure the LSh is an amazing car (even today 8 years after it went on sale) but in the US hybrid means fuel economy. The slightly better FE of the hybrid didn't cut it for most people; nor did the USD 30K price differential. Nobody is impressed when I tell them what my mileage is; after they figure out it's a hybrid.
Cars here are taxed on price; not CO2 emissions so there was no way to recover that offset. I think the thinking among most people in that price range was that the cost of fuel is inconsequential compared to the car; so those dollars might be better spent with something that had an AMG stapled to the back of it. Or something with a bunch of turbos bolted onto it at least.
The whole 'performance hybrid' thing never really caught on; and people were kind of horrified at the fact that the EPA rates the LSh mileage as seemingly lower than the RWD SWB car. And the 0-60 time is also slower.
At least on paper. On the road this car feels much much faster than the numbers give it credit for. Midrange pickup is almost Tesla-like in it's speed and intensity. I've gotten 27-28 mpg on long drives and 21-23 mpg consistently in town (so long as it's not a 2 minute drive to the corner). Name one other 438hp AWD car with this much luxury and speed that can do that. But alas it's lost on some people.
08-04-15, 05:21 AM
#18
Pole Position
I just love the way this car looks. Went to the Boston car show back in February and that car was probably the most impressive one I saw, just beautiful. If money was no object and I didn't have to worry about reliability or practicality, I'd buy that car. It's why all the sports stars around Boston own them and why I saw about 50 of them around Wall Street last week.
08-04-15, 01:33 PM
#20
Lexus Fanatic
I just love the way this car looks. Went to the Boston car show back in February and that car was probably the most impressive one I saw, just beautiful. If money was no object and I didn't have to worry about reliability or practicality, I'd buy that car. It's why all the sports stars around Boston own them and why I saw about 50 of them around Wall Street last week.
They are also are proof that people will and can pay for an outstanding product of outstanding quality. Base price is about $93k, and its rare to see one sticker below $100k. But...they're everywhere here. Sales leader in the segment, averaging nearly 1700 units a month. Just for comparisons sake, thats about what the GS sells...and 2-3 times what the LS460 currently sells. They don't have any kind of cheap or subsidized leases either...the lease deals are actually pretty bad.
08-04-15, 05:48 PM
#21
On the road this car feels much much faster than the numbers give it credit for. Midrange pickup is almost Tesla-like in it's speed and intensity. I've gotten 27-28 mpg on long drives and 21-23 mpg consistently in town (so long as it's not a 2 minute drive to the corner). Name one other 438hp AWD car with this much luxury and speed that can do that. But alas it's lost on some people.
Coming from a Mercedes, I'd only buy the 550 if I only planned to keep it during the warranty period and I had a dealer who would pick it up & drop off another when it needed to go in for service. Doesn't matter if I'm not paying for the service if I have to be inconvenienced and my Benz has not been nearly as trouble free as either of my Lexuses or even my Toyota.
Slightly off topic - why do dealers give you loaners that are not as good as the car you're bringing in? I'd rather be tempted to buy an S when bringing in my E class then drive the C and know I wouldn't ever buy one.
08-04-15, 08:01 PM
#22
Lexus Fanatic
Coming from a Mercedes, I'd only buy the 550 if I only planned to keep it during the warranty period and I had a dealer who would pick it up & drop off another when it needed to go in for service. Doesn't matter if I'm not paying for the service if I have to be inconvenienced and my Benz has not been nearly as trouble free as either of my Lexuses or even my Toyota.
The proof too is in the results. The S550 is the most expensive car in the segment, and it also outsells the second best selling car in the segment 2 to 1. Thats really astonishing. In fact, if you put the sales of the 7 Series, LS and A8 together (#2, #3 & #4 in the segment) together, they would barely equal the sales of the S Class, a car that starts ~$20,000 more expensive than any of them do. Thats over and above the market speaking.
If you compared those sales just to LS models that MSRP at $90k and above, its a enormous multiplier. If you compare it to just 600 sales, its even more enormous.
As for the pick up and drop off...every MB dealer I've ever seen will do that...as will most Lexus dealers FYI. Thats not an uncommon luxury car perk.
Slightly off topic - why do dealers give you loaners that are not as good as the car you're bringing in? I'd rather be tempted to buy an S when bringing in my E class then drive the C and know I wouldn't ever buy one.
You want to see a $200 MB oil change turn into a $500 MB oil change...have S Class loaners.
08-07-15, 06:25 AM
#23
My wife and I were in Amsterdam in June and I was surprised to see so many Teslas. There were privately owned ones, but what was really surprising was all the Tesla taxi cabs we saw. Apparently besides reduced taxes, there are other advantages/incentives to owning a zero emissions car.
08-08-15, 07:30 PM
#24
Funny, I spent the last week on a road trip with my wife & daughter looking at colleges all over the east coast. Typical day had 6-8 hours of driving. Got home and needed to take my son's car out as mine was boxed in - he inherited the E350 and I couldn't believe how harsh it seems now. Before I got the LS I thought it was sweet - now it feels like the Rav4
What I thought was quiet is not and the power just doesn't come online as fast as either my SC or LS. Pretty amazing how much the bar has been raised.
08-08-15, 07:48 PM
#25
Lexus Fanatic
Funny, I spent the last week on a road trip with my wife & daughter looking at colleges all over the east coast. Typical day had 6-8 hours of driving. Got home and needed to take my son's car out as mine was boxed in - he inherited the E350 and I couldn't believe how harsh it seems now. Before I got the LS I thought it was sweet - now it feels like the Rav4 What I thought was quiet is not and the power just doesn't come online as fast as either my SC or LS. Pretty amazing how much the bar has been raised.
What I thought was quiet is not and the power just doesn't come online as fast as either my SC or LS. Pretty amazing how much the bar has been raised.
The power difference is the V8...
08-09-15, 07:27 PM
#26
08-10-15, 07:51 AM
#27
Pit Crew
Thread Starter
Zero to speed limiter in about 35 seconds.
08-11-15, 11:48 AM
#28
Driver School Candidate
We've got an '09 600. Still runs as smoothly and quietly since the day we got it. We're gonna keep it for another 5yrs if it can make it. I'm always reminded of this when I drive other cars and have a tough time listening to the radio/music/etc.
Today, I would select a S-class over the 600. Lexus has made strides in its design but MB continues to kill it, year after year.
Today, I would select a S-class over the 600. Lexus has made strides in its design but MB continues to kill it, year after year.
08-12-15, 09:32 PM
#29
Today, I would select a S-class over the 600. Lexus has made strides in its design but MB continues to kill it, year after year.
If I'm in for the long haul or buying second hand I still pick the Lexus for its higher quality and durability. And even now it's still a really nice car.
All this will change in a year when both the new LS and new 7 series are both available.
From everything I've read I would expect the following:
LS 500: powered by the ~460 HP RCF/GSF engine with some tweaks.
LS 600h: same engine + hybrid powertrain == 510hp.
LS 500h: either a smaller V8 with hybrid or Hydrogen Fuel cell powered car
LSF?: they'd be a little crazy not to consider this; but sales volumes might not support it. An F-sport for all above trims at least.
And what else? Maybe some crazy self-driving tech? Or kick *** accident avoidance? Crazy thin and light battery for the hybrid(s)? Who knows but I'm sure they'll have something to make everybody stand up and take notice. Improve and bring back the parking system please.
Reveal could be at the Tokyo Motor Show this fall (as a thinly veiled concept car) followed by on-sale next year sometime.
Then we'll see who's top dog; the game will change again as it always does.
08-13-15, 08:36 AM
#30
LS 500: powered by the ~460 HP RCF/GSF engine with some tweaks.
LS 600h: same engine + hybrid powertrain == 510hp.
LS 500h: either a smaller V8 with hybrid or Hydrogen Fuel cell powered car
LS 600h: same engine + hybrid powertrain == 510hp.
LS 500h: either a smaller V8 with hybrid or Hydrogen Fuel cell powered car