Thanks, Devh.

So, I'm in the midst of negotiating on a 2009 LS460 SWB RWD CPO with 51K miles, Mark Levinson, Comfort Plus, Advanced Parking Guidance (I don't care about this per se, but I believe it prevents a Vaistech after-market modification (to restore the built-in streaming options the 2010-2010 has built-in, if I'm understnding correctly) from blocking use of the backup camera), and preferred accessory package (not that big of a deal to me).

Reportedly, the Mark Levinson in the 2097-2009 MY's has better sound quality than 2010-2012 MY's -- and also more reliability issues, but the CPO warranty covers that, right?

I'm trying to come up with a good price for this car. I'm thinking $33K OTD with a little upward movement would be a good deal. I'd aporeciate any thoughts about this, thanks!

 

I am a fan of the CPO cars as the dealer has treated me right while under warranty. As for the stereo, I have been in both model year cars and could not tell the difference. Both cars were in excellent shape. According to lexus, all stereo components are the same, but that doesn't mean quality hasn't changed. But I still suggest same. Price to me seems right for 51k and CPO. if you were to by a similar warranty as with what you get from the CPO, it will cost $4-5k for that 49,000 mile coverage. BUT, is this the car you want? If it was me, I would find. 2010 or new model year that is CPO and pay lightly more. Or find a not certified newer model and pay the same. I think you are paying for the CPO model here, so hopefully you see the value. I would continue the search. But I haven't seen the car first hand, and that is the biggest thing it condition. All CPO cars are in good condition, but not all are in excellent condition.

 

Thanks for the thought! You're right, it's the CPO factor that makes me to be willing to pay a slight premium for the car.

It's hard to find a 2009 - 2010 CPO with even just the Mark Levinson at a (to me) reasonable price. I believe from reading this forum that the Mark Levinson head unit has a different part number in 2010 compared with 2009. Nonetheless, I agree with the general principle that one should get the most recent model year one can afford. There are exceptions, I sppose.

 

Don't forget to check the build/in service date as well - I had the choice between a 2010 (build date August 2010) and a 2011 (build date September 2010). The 2011 had more miles and was much more expensive...

 

If timing isn't urgent I would agree with earlier sentiments to keep looking. 2010 onwards have a decent number of changes, not just cosmetic, that may make it worthwhile to wait out for. You should be able to find a 2010 in the mid $30s with ML, and with the refreshed LS rumored to be out soon prices will only go down.

 

Thanks for the suggestion for looking at the build/in-service date.

As to the differences between 2009 and 2010 LS460's, I've been looking in this forum and here:

2009 LS460 Product Information
http://pressroom.lexus.com/article_d...rticle_id=2576

2010 LS460 Product Information:
http://pressroom.lexus.com/article_d...rticle_id=2656

So, what are the differences, besides cosmetic ones between a 2009 and 2010 RWD, SWB, no air suspension, no sport option/appearance package?

What I've come up with so far as the differences/advantages of a 2010:

Newer generation, supposedly better navigation system. Regardless, I think Google Maps on my Smartphone is much superior.

More reliable Mark Levinson. Some say they prefer the sound, especially the bass response, in the earlier version.

Seats:
Auto slide-away driver's seat.

Instrumentation and Controls:
Eco Drive indicator.

Lexus Premium Audio:
Integrated XM Satellite receiver.
USB/iPod input plugs.
Streaming audio using Bluetooth.
After-market solutions exist for the last 2 items, but I agree it's better to have them built-in.

Safety:
Active front headrests.
Turn signals integrated into side mirrors.

Security:
Safety ConnectTM with Automatic Collision Notification, Stolen Vehicle Location, Emergency Assist Button, and Enhanced Roadside Assistance (complimentary one-year trial subscription included)

Comfort Plus:
Semi-aniline trim.
Lumbar massage rear seats.
Butterfly rear headrests.

Please let me know if I've missed anything significant. Thanks!

 

I would get a 2010 just for the improvements in the navigation/infotainment system. The streaming audio, etc.

 

Understood. Thanks.

 

If you like streaming audio, then the Bluetooth connection is very convenient. The other thing is I think some 2009s still had issues with control arms, wind noise, and hard seat cushion.

 

I don't know much about how prevalent the hard seat cushion was, nor the MY's affected. I think there was a fix for it, though.

From looking at TSB's, I think there's evidence that it wasn't until 2011 when there was a design change to the control arms.

It seems there are a variety of fixes for the wind noise -- if it becomes an issue.

All in all, I'd prefer a 2010, but I'd still consider a 2009 with the features I want at the right price. Regarding the CPO 2009 LS I was considering, the used car manager did't call me as the salesperson promised and they didn't meet my OTD required price, so I sent an e-mail to the salesperson, thanking her for her time and saying I was moving on.

 

Well, the dealer for the 2010 LS460 dropped their asking price by $1K today. I texted them an offer for which I would accept the car as is, but they insist on staying at the price they previously offered and was agreed to in writing (texting) that was based on their promise (again, texted) to fix the ding. Too bad they refused to honor their promise or accepted one of several alternatives I gave them, including today's.

My travel and expenses incurred for that travel were predicated on a promise they didn't keep. I had hoped to avoid further issues with today's offer. As the salesman texted me, he wants to get the best deal and won't relent on the OTD price. I suspect others won't be surprised at this lack of ethics, given the overall depiction of car dealers.. I'm simply disappointed. Edit: Regarding ethics, I can't speak for the dealer treats other customers, just my experience.

I've decided to confine my search for a 2010 or perhaps 2011 LS460, and have decided that the only option I require is the Mark Levinson upgrade -- at least, for the moment, LOL! Inventory is a bit slow now at my price/mileage point, but something will come along eventually.

 

You're a bigger man than I. After all you've been through (travel, emails, back and forth, etc), I would have come to some agreement and just bought the car and be done with it. Time is money as they say.

Hope you find what you're after. When you do, you'll be a happy man. I agree on the ML. That option is a non-negotiable.

 

I know you're CA and you guys have stupid emission rules, but have you tried expanding your search beyond the state? You're having as bad of a time as I did until I expanded beyond state lines and things became easier. I'm pretty sure you could also negotiate with the out of state seller to cover your emissions testing or deduct x amount from agreed on price to cover testing when the car gets back to CA. Another thing is if you can find a CPO anywhere else in the US at a Lexus dealer, talk with your local Lexus dealer and you might be able to work a deal with them to buy that car through them. It might cost you slightly more due to acquiring/shipping costs and stuff, but it might be worth it.
Also, you could try and expand your search beyond just CPO cars and look for non CPO vehicles and get an extended warranty. This option might also be cheaper than going CPO and depending on what kind of warranty you get it's as good as the CPO warranty and usually with longer terms.

 

I have never used an auto broker. But many dealerships do offer something like that. Tell them exactly what you are looking for, and they will keep their eye out for you. That is how I got my car. Went to a dealership and they didnt have exactly what I wanted. The car they has was a 2009 LWB. Price was great, but I wanted 2010 or newer. Told them I was looking for something off lease many. A few months went by, got a call that they pick up a car from the lexus dealership. Went down and made the deal on a 2011 SWB with 60K just off lease.

 

Thanks, all, for the great suggestions and feedback. Despite preferring a California car, I have searched and will continue to search nation-wide, looking at Cargurus, Autotrader, and Carsdotcom daily. I've also set alerts at all 3 sites. I left my purchase preferences at a number of Lexus dealerships, both in and out of state. For the fun of it, I also look on eBay and local Craigslist entries. I've been in touch with s few local auto brokers and told them my search parameters.

The most promising possibilities have come from the three web sites I mentioned above. Part of the reason this search has taken so long is that I'm a picky buyer with specific option requirements (which I recently scaled back on), self imposed budget restraints and looking for a great deal. The 2009 CPO deal fell apart because of price and my desire for the 2010 refresh.

Frankly, if I put a monetary value on the time I've spent to far, I would have purchased a vehicle like this at close to its asking price:

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