Trans Fluid Change? "NO"
#16
What is known and quite conclusive is the tried and true longevity of the ls400 models. Many examples exist of 300 - 400k miles transmissions. The way this is done has been proven over and over. The only reason Lexus calls it lifetime, in the United States alone, is to keep the owner cost ratings down. Also, the manufacturer, Aisin, does recommend it be serviced. The procedure on the 460 is almost exactly like the 430. It was designed to be serviced. Don't skip over the metal content in the analysis. Very important and revealing. It's all about the clutch pack additives to reduce wear. My dealer does the drain and refill for $99
This is a double edged sword that I have wrestled with but in the end nothing last forever and for all you know an accident that may total the car completely will take whatever expectations of longevity out the window in an instant.
#17
Another thing to maybe consider is (maybe old school) that transmission shops recommend changing the fluid to unsuspecting customers. They know that putting new vital fluid in a used transmission works actively and the stronger fluid promotes further decay and failure of already used and weak clutch pads. A new or rebuilt transmission needed!
#18
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (1)
I won't beat a dead horse but the general rule of thumb is that you avoid flushing all together. If you have your transmission flushed early, like every 30k, it should not be a problem but overall it's a more risky procedure. You mention gunk or sludge possibly dislodged that would clog something. Gunk is built up in the transmission how? By not changing the fluid. This is why a drain and refill is the safest and preferred method. Anyway, I only let Lexus service my transmission. Anyone care to comment on why Lexus says to not change the transmission fluid in the United States alone? It's the same transmission in every other 460 around the world....
Last edited by Lavrishevo; 08-13-14 at 04:53 AM.
#19
I won't beat a dead horse but the general rule of thumb is that you avoid flushing all together. If you have your transmission flushed early, like every 30k, it should not be a problem but overall it's a more risky procedure. You mention gunk or sludge possibly dislodged that would clog something. Gunk is built up in the transmission how? By not changing the fluid. This is why a drain and refill is the safest and preferred method. Anyway, I only let Lexus service my transmission. Anyone care to comment on why Lexus says to not change the transmission fluid in the United States alone? It's the same transmission in every other 460 around the world....
Like many modern automatics, our trannys are very sensitive to fluid level, fluid type and technique used to service them.
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DrQuality (07-26-21)
#20
I won't beat a dead horse but the general rule of thumb is that you avoid flushing all together. If you have your transmission flushed early, like every 30k, it should not be a problem but overall it's a more risky procedure. You mention gunk or sludge possibly dislodged that would clog something. Gunk is built up in the transmission how? By not changing the fluid. This is why a drain and refill is the safest and preferred method. Anyway, I only let Lexus service my transmission. Anyone care to comment on why Lexus says to not change the transmission fluid in the United States alone? It's the same transmission in every other 460 around the world....
Some transmissions like the BMW has a transmission filter that is replaced with the pan assembly when it has to be serviced which is a good idea but it may not be as effective given the age of the transmission.
I will agree that if you feel the need to change your transmission fluid regularly you need to do it every 40k miles otherwise it's risky. Even then as I said before if the job is not done right and you miss the mark of how much fluid to add as Robert has stated you can goof the transmission.
I don't even blindly trust the Lexus mechanic for this kind of work.
The bigger question is why do it at all if transmissions are not failing left in right because the fluid was not changed. You are more likely to have something else go majorly wrong with the car in the long run of plus 200K miles like worn out piston rings that it makes the car not worth the cost to fix anyway.
#21
Lexus Fanatic
Still.........why only US market cars are exempt from this service? Canada and everywhere else requires this service at 60k AND diff fluid at 110k miles.
I knew a guy who NEVER (EVER EVER) changed his oil......not once. He just topped up when required. even the oil filter was in the car for years. He sold that car with 80k miles or so and never dropped a penny in the motor. No blue smoke....nothing. Still, I'm not prepared to take thjat chance with my car. So I change the oil....because it's a good thing. Same for the trans IMHO.
I knew a guy who NEVER (EVER EVER) changed his oil......not once. He just topped up when required. even the oil filter was in the car for years. He sold that car with 80k miles or so and never dropped a penny in the motor. No blue smoke....nothing. Still, I'm not prepared to take thjat chance with my car. So I change the oil....because it's a good thing. Same for the trans IMHO.
#22
Still.........why only US market cars are exempt from this service? Canada and everywhere else requires this service at 60k AND diff fluid at 110k miles.
I knew a guy who NEVER (EVER EVER) changed his oil......not once. He just topped up when required. even the oil filter was in the car for years. He sold that car with 80k miles or so and never dropped a penny in the motor. No blue smoke....nothing. Still, I'm not prepared to take thjat chance with my car. So I change the oil....because it's a good thing. Same for the trans IMHO.
I knew a guy who NEVER (EVER EVER) changed his oil......not once. He just topped up when required. even the oil filter was in the car for years. He sold that car with 80k miles or so and never dropped a penny in the motor. No blue smoke....nothing. Still, I'm not prepared to take thjat chance with my car. So I change the oil....because it's a good thing. Same for the trans IMHO.
People including myself had a hard time at the turn of the century excepting longer then 3k mile oil changes, 0W oils and Toyota long life coolant but the engineers have been proven right.
There are still some people who insist on changing their timing chains at 60k like the timing belt.
#23
Lexus Fanatic
I also have heard of stories like this in regard to not changing the engine oil. That is not wise or even remotely the same thing as it goes way outside the bounds of what is normal and it's not recommended by the manufacture.
People including myself had a hard time at the turn of the century excepting longer then 3k mile oil changes, 0W oils and Toyota long life coolant but the engineers have been proven right.
People including myself had a hard time at the turn of the century excepting longer then 3k mile oil changes, 0W oils and Toyota long life coolant but the engineers have been proven right.
Still...I wonder how Lexus "USA" would explain why their requirements are lifetime and Lexus "everywhere else" is not. If they were honest, they would respond, "marketing", to compete with the claims made by the other manufacturers. When the warranty runs out, they don't care that you never changed the fluid.
#24
Fair enough. However, unlike some companies EXTENDING oil change intervals, some are shying away from the "lifetime" label on transmissions. Some are calling "lifetime" 60k miles. My BMW e65 (with no dipstick to check levels), WAS lifetime, but BMW then stated that fluid chould be changed (I forget what intervals). MB did the same as did VW. In fact ZF, who manufacture the trans in BMW, Corvette, and others, deny that their trans are "lifetime" and reccommend 60k mile changes.
Still...I wonder how Lexus "USA" would explain why their requirements are lifetime and Lexus "everywhere else" is not. If they were honest, they would respond, "marketing", to compete with the claims made by the other manufacturers. When the warranty runs out, they don't care that you never changed the fluid.
Still...I wonder how Lexus "USA" would explain why their requirements are lifetime and Lexus "everywhere else" is not. If they were honest, they would respond, "marketing", to compete with the claims made by the other manufacturers. When the warranty runs out, they don't care that you never changed the fluid.
Toyotas philosophy and strategy is keeping their customer base and except for the sludge monsters engines they made in the past they are heavily invested in keeping their reputation.
Toyota transmission on the whole has always had a great reputation for durability even in the absence of recommended service intervals which many people have abused.
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CamelKool (01-31-21)
#27
Pole Position
I cannot speak to Lexus vehicles, but the scare tactics about flushing a transmission seems ridiculous. I was in fleet maintenance for a number of years, and I never EVER saw any transmission problems exhibited by a properly done (and refilled) flush. That doesn't mean just dropping the pan & R&R'ing the filter, but to flush the system entirely.
One thing to remember that in general, automatic transmission fluid is a VERY high-detergent fluid; so much so that one of the tricks to freeing a stuck (by varnish or other crud) hydraulic lifter in an engine is to put a bit of ATF in the crankcase, drive it for about 30-50 miles (or less) so the lifter unsticks and then do an oil change. I've never, ever, no matter how cruddy the transmission fluid, ever saw varnish in a valve body.
IMHO, the ones telling you NOT to flush the trans, want to sell you a replacement transmission.
Today, there are additives that you can add to your AT before a flush that will pretty much eliminate any potential crud gumming up a valve body. No fear here. I can attest to the longevity of transmissions that have the fluid changed. YMMV.
One thing to remember that in general, automatic transmission fluid is a VERY high-detergent fluid; so much so that one of the tricks to freeing a stuck (by varnish or other crud) hydraulic lifter in an engine is to put a bit of ATF in the crankcase, drive it for about 30-50 miles (or less) so the lifter unsticks and then do an oil change. I've never, ever, no matter how cruddy the transmission fluid, ever saw varnish in a valve body.
IMHO, the ones telling you NOT to flush the trans, want to sell you a replacement transmission.
Today, there are additives that you can add to your AT before a flush that will pretty much eliminate any potential crud gumming up a valve body. No fear here. I can attest to the longevity of transmissions that have the fluid changed. YMMV.
#28
Lexus Fanatic
FWIW....I just booked an appointment with Toyota for a trans fluid change on Wednesday. They quoted 148 dollars. They also explained that the car will be hooked up to Techstream for proper operating temperature drainage/refill just like it's supposed to be done. When I explained to them that my U.S. brothers here at CL have "lifetime" fluids according to Lexus Corp, he was aghast. He was sure I was making stuff up to avoid getting the service done. He could not explain why only Lexus' in America have lifetime fluid.
#29
Another thing to maybe consider is (maybe old school) that transmission shops recommend changing the fluid to unsuspecting customers. They know that putting new vital fluid in a used transmission works actively and the stronger fluid promotes further decay and failure of already used and weak clutch pads.
Clean fluid is especially important on the newer Toyotas because it helps prevent the electronic shift control solenoids from getting sticky and/or failing.
#30
Absolutely not true. New fluid extends the life of all internal parts and seals of an Aisin. I have two 41 year old Toyota automatics that are still running fine because I put fresh fluid in them when they were about 25 years old and have kept fresh fluid in them ever since.
Clean fluid is especially important on the newer Toyotas because it helps prevent the electronic shift control solenoids from getting sticky and/or failing.
Clean fluid is especially important on the newer Toyotas because it helps prevent the electronic shift control solenoids from getting sticky and/or failing.
I had mine changed at 60k on my 08 GS and will have it done every 30 there after. And I have done the same on my 11' Infiniti QX56 and that was dealer recommended even though it also has lifetime fluids. Both transmissions were shifting smoother after the changes....
And I'm not going to mention the amount of water pumps that are failing with the LLC around 60k...all the manufactures want is to get you out the warranty period...I don't mind paying for services if I'm going to shell out 60k+ for a vehicle...its called peace of mind....