Devh

I can take it a step further and say that those people who claim they got their monies worth from their warranty don't realized they over paid the dealer for the work to give them the illusion. The smoke in mirrors started at the dealership to begin with. But in regards to the German make they keep you in the system ever increasing the complexity for the DIYer that wants to save a lot of money.

roadfrog

EXACTLY! I've been around the block a million times with members here and other forums with this argument, but they just don't get it....or choose to just have their OWN version of inner peace. For me, finding parts at a quarter the price of a dealer and doing the work myself (or an independent mechanic to do the labour at half that of Toy/Lex), is MY peace of mind. I'm a cheap B*stard!

I've had friends who ask why I'm so cheap if I can afford such a nice car. I counter that I can afford a nice car BECAUSE I'm cheap. I prefer "smart shopper".

Soldier76

"Amen to that brotha"!!! My wife is an avid couponer and she inspires me to start saving money.

Devh

The newest scam by the dealership is offering so called seminars on vehicle maintenance to owners. I received an invite in the mail today from my local BMW dealership.
They really know how to make fools of so called educated people.

It's not about being cheap, its about being taken for a ride by being intimidated.
People in general do not want to appear poor or not informed on the trends. There is nothing more illusionary then fake opulence. This is the Starbucks hook, and if you look behind the counter you will find nothing more then super automatic espresso machines, not a real barista.

Lavrishevo

iTrader: (1)

When I purchased my 430 I considered the 460 but I was seriously worried about owning one without a warranty after reading about the issues. The 430 is a better vehicle overall. More comfortable, more quiet, and more reliable. One thing that really speaks to this is that when you go into a Lexus dealer and look at the cars Lexus mechanics choose - ls400s and 430s are their favorites. No offense guys but I'll trust the word of the guys servicing these cars everyday. The 430 definitely was assembled with more refinement and it's reliability has already proven itself to be better then the 460. No question about that. I like the 460 but it has proven to be a less reliable car then the 430 and it's not the technology inside the car that gives the 460 problems. It's mostly between major mechanical and the suspension. Often very expensive to fix.

SBlexus

From what I see in the 430 forum you guys have the same issues. Maybe the reason the complaints wasn't as bad with the 430 is because more older drivers bought the car and before they complain they just got rid of the car, no trying to be offensive to the older members. In my option I think the 460 is a younger crowd and in the internet computer era were they are more likely to express their opinion. To be honest I wouldn't buy a 430 without a warranty either. Still the 430 was a great car for its time.

SW17LS

You have to remember that while there may be more issues with the LS460 vs the LS430, its still rated as one of if not the most reliable cars produced. So its not like one is buying into a nest of issues with the 460, if that were the case we would see that reflected in reliability data and we don't.

My mechanic says he would buy a 430 over a 460 only because of the cost of replacing the lower control arms on the 460...other than that its as good a car. The 430 was a great car, but its just ancient at this point IMHO. Nothing lasts forever.

Soldier76

I been quizzing a few (3 to be exact) people that have the 430 with well over 100,000miles on them. When asked did they have any issues with their cars both minor or major, they all said basically the same thing which was "no" for any problems, and that they absolutely love their vehicles, and never getting rid of it (or something of that nature). The funny thing is when I ask all other Lexus owners (of different vehicles of coarse) the same questions. They all say basically the same thing as well. That they absolutely love their cars and no problems at all. I'm beginning to assume that people just love their Lexus, whether good or bad that might occur with these particular vehicles becomes a faded memory. That eventually becomes lost in a sea of forgetfulness when experiencing all the pleasurable moments (that's frozen in their minds forever) I too sometimes forget that my radio turns off once in a while and that my alignment is off, (pull to the right just a LIL) and become enchanted by the many good things about this vehicle. That cloud will eventually burst when I find all the money I have to pay to get these issues resolved, but it will be well worth it because this vehicle is an "Absolute Astonishment".

roadfrog

Probably because it's what they can afford. It's half the price. Mechanics don't usually drive upper-tier vehicles. Their wages just don't allow it. I GUARANTEE you, that if you offered them the 460 for the same price, they would jump on it in a heartbeat. You could say the same for any upper echelon dealership - Cadillac, MB, BMW, etc...the mechanics aren't driving the latest luxury vehicles on the lot. EVER. In a few years those mechanics you allegedly spoke too will be driving the 460's.

When you say, "better vehicle overall"....what do you mean? It's certainly not better in many ways - technology, sound system, handling, looks (extremely dated), performance, etc. If you mean more reliable, I'll have to take your word on that. From what I've seen so far, reliability is not an issue on the 460. CR and every other publication agrees. I mean, a Corolla might be MORE reliable than a Camry but they're both reliable and the Camry is that much more a car than the Corolla. Plus it looks nicer...as does the 460 over the 400/430 which I truly think looks dated and boxy (ie ugly).

Also, what "major mechanical" issues are you referring too? If all you can refer to is suspension, big deal! Couple hundred to fix with some bushings off Ebay. and a couple hours for a mechanic to do. If owners choose to get soaked at the dealer and have them REPLACE entire suspension assemblies, that's their choosing. I will not go that route. I had my dealer inspect my suspension and the mechanic said everything was solid as new on my 80k mile LS. Transmission issues? Nope. Electronics issues? Meh....a few members had to have their Nav/Stereo fixed at United Radio for 600 dollars or so, but it's a rarity. Engine issues? Nope. Diffs? Uh... no. Steering or brakes? Again, no.

On edit: Just for *****s and giggles, I quickly went over to the 430 forums. Literally the first 6 or 7 threads were about mechanical issues - boiling over, electric seats no longer working, keyless entry stopped working, engine codes, squeaking and overheating, another that simply stated "multiple problems", navigation problems, timing belt, etc.

Tee

People need to relax and enjoy they car and not think every issue reported on this forum is going to happen to them b/c it's not. A lot issues are from one time posters who never come back with a follow up, hanging out here you may think every 460 owner has the same problems which is not the case, we are a small percentage of LS460/600H owners that hang out here on the regular. Yes there are common issues like every car but to say the 460 is so scary to own and not reliable is not true. Another thing when people post issue remember we might not be getting the entire pic far as the history of the car, prior to them owning it. It could be a flood car, been in a wreck etc, it was a great price (for a reason) and someone did not do their homework before buying b/c hey it’s a Lexus what could go wrong?! I have owned two 460's and neither has left me stranded from a mechanical stand point mind you the SWB had over 149K and she ran like new just like the previous 430 did. I love the 430 & 460 a lot IMO the 460 is the better car, some may feel different if they could spend more time with the 460 than a test drive just maybe. If some of you think the 460 is a problem child go hang out on the MB, Audi and Bimmer forums and compare apples to apples (2007-2009) for reference. See what those flagship issues are then tell me if you think the 460 is such a bad car to own.

Lavrishevo

iTrader: (1)

You know what's interesting, I wonder how sales numbers plays into this argument. Look at the tremendous drop-off in sales after 2008. I totally agree that the 460 is a great car. Just not better then the 430. This discussion really gets some of you going...


US Sales figures:

2001 -31,110
2002 - 26,261
2003 - 23,895
2004 - 32,272
2005 - 26,043
2006 - 19,546
= 159,127 LS430's sold in the US

2007 - 35,226
2008 - 20,255
2009 - 11,334
2010 - 12,275
2011 - 9,568
2012 - 8,345
= 97,003 LS460's sold in the US

roadfrog

Yep and your sagging American economy played a huge part in this equation. Luxury sales dropped uniformly across the manufacturers during the recession. People were losing their homes and the last thing anyone was thinking about was buying a luxury sedan.

Tee

You have to take in account that the US economy took an huge "L" starting either late 2006 or sometime in 2007.

Lavrishevo

iTrader: (1)

This is true but what about 9/11? That killed the economy and it did not seem to hurt 430 sales much.

roadfrog

9/11 was fleeting. The economy did not get hit until almost 2008 and continued for many years.