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Hey everyone,
Was told like many of your my upper/lower control arms on my 07 Ls460L with air suspension needed replacement....to the tune of 3k..by my independent mechanic,,,,obviously more from the dealer. My question is this...for those of you that have had this work performed by and independent mechanic what is a reasonable cost for the labor if I provide the parts? I have read some of you indicating it was a full day job for someone with tools and generally mechanically inclined....but even at $100 an hour at a labor cost of $2500 from my mechanic ( i am rounding shop rate to make the math easy as this is just an esimate) that is 25 hours of labor for the repair and that seems excessive. Thoughts? Anyone in the Phoenix Area have a suspension shop they have used for this?
UPDATE: Based upon other CL members experiences I went ahead and purchased the upper and lower control arms with pre-installed bushings through ebay...$152 for uppers (4) seller name: sochi98 and $386 for the lowers (4) seller name: buyautoparts. I found a local shop that quoted me $850 for all labor so if everything goes correctly I should be at $1388 all in. Much cheaper than dealer repair or my own mechanic bid. I will update again after work is completed to share my experience.
Update: New aftermarket upper and lower control arms now installed. I now have a new issue. The repair shop could not get the car to align properly so they ended up taking it to a local Lexus dealer and even then the car now has a slight pull left. Apparently the aftermarket control arms are vary slightly from the oems and this is why the car doesn't align perfectly. I am being told I need something called caster plates to remedy the situation (to the tune of $700 for parts and labor). The pull is only noticeable driving at highway speeds and it is pretty subtle, I am at least as concerned that I will end up burning through my new Michelin Tires if this thing doesn't drive straight....Even with the additional repair costs I would be well under original bid of 3k....likely about $2200 after caster install and new alignment....but the aggravation continues....thoughts? advise? not sure how to proceed
2019 Update: So I have driven my vehicle a grant total of 12k miles since my first post back in 2016. Front end vibrates a bit over non even road services so took car in to see what is happening. Guess what? Aftermarket upper and lower control arms (told by 2 different shops and I inspected myself the uppers myself so I can confirm) are toast. So my advise would be to NOT buy the aftermarket control arms I mentioned. I am now looking at the possibility of doing a bushing swap on my original arms assuming the ball joints still work. If not I will have to replace the arms with bad ball joints and push new bushings in to the original arms that have functioning ball joints. Still getting quoted outrageous fees to install so will look to this forum to find posts on how to perform work myself.
So reading all the posts going back to 2014, made me think...
A) I purchased Mevotech aftermarket arms due to the lifetime warranty, since I didn't buy local parts store, I will have to mail them back when they fail. Time consuming.
B) I kept my old OEM arms, and wondering about pressing in bushings, but haven't found ball joint replacements for the arms. This would at least let me at my own pace replace and wait for warranty repair, and considering a fight with RockAuto over the replacement.
C) If I did decide to put in Poly Bushings, then could do them on next changeout, which varies between 10K-50K miles depending on use, climate, road surface, etc...
So basically creating a swapable set. I assume I could coat them with silicon paste to extend the life of the rubber/poly while sitting in a box on the shelf. At the very least, order the bushings as the ones on the car start to decay and once I have them pressed, then do a swap, and keep the car running.
Questions:
1) Has anyone seen ball joints for the arms? I can't seem to find any. I've found ball joints for the front steering knuckle (PITA to replace, but did it), but not the arms.
2) Can anyone confirm that the life of the Armstrong PSB 460 bushing kit is worth the price. I think I would be OK with a stiffer ride and spraying some WD-40 in there occasionally for the squeak (I think).
Right now, I spent $658 on Mevotech arms (Lifetime warranty) and $68 on a pair of NIST ball joints. Bushing replacement looks to be as low as $53-$78, with $275 for Armstrong PSB 460. This is still much cheaper than new arms, but a lot of hassle to press them out. Leaning towards buying a set of the cheap bushings and try the press method, but only if I can get my hands on the ball joints also.
After my first replacement of the original oem arms with aftermarket arms only got me about 12 k miles I opted to purchase a new set of 4 oem upper and 2 lower control arms ( replaced the long steel ones..the other lowers seem to be okay)... After lots of research and help from this site I obtained the 6 oem arms for roughly $1550 from various eBay sellers and then installed them myself..I have limited mechanical experience but was able to install them myself over the course of a few days...lots of time spent making trips to Harbor Freight to get tools needed. Even after install my car was still making low vibrating rumbling noises over uneven surfaces. Was advised both my front air struts were toast ( which I was afraid was the case)... I sourced two new OEM air struts from an international seller on eBay for $1600 ( for both...not each) and had my local trusted mechanic install..I was concerned that the struts would actually work because they were so much chrchea then purchasing via dealer that they may be fakes..(i. .e. counterfeit oem) but they went right in...no codes...now then off to the local discount tire shop for new tires...just had those installed two days ago...car already drives straighter and I haven't had it aligned yet...so all in with me doing most of the labor and parts sourcing I am about 5k into the project but that is less than half what the dealer would have taken me for...and now if arms fail again I know how to replace them...I kept my old arms as an option if I decide to push new bushings in vs buy all new arms...not sure I will do that as the old ball joints on the arms seemed pretty floppy and if I goto the effort of installing I want the repair to last
So reading all the posts going back to 2014, made me think...
A) I purchased Mevotech aftermarket arms due to the lifetime warranty, since I didn't buy local parts store, I will have to mail them back when they fail. Time consuming.
B) I kept my old OEM arms, and wondering about pressing in bushings, but haven't found ball joint replacements for the arms. This would at least let me at my own pace replace and wait for warranty repair, and considering a fight with RockAuto over the replacement.
C) If I did decide to put in Poly Bushings, then could do them on next changeout, which varies between 10K-50K miles depending on use, climate, road surface, etc...
So basically creating a swapable set. I assume I could coat them with silicon paste to extend the life of the rubber/poly while sitting in a box on the shelf. At the very least, order the bushings as the ones on the car start to decay and once I have them pressed, then do a swap, and keep the car running.
Questions:
1) Has anyone seen ball joints for the arms? I can't seem to find any. I've found ball joints for the front steering knuckle (PITA to replace, but did it), but not the arms.
2) Can anyone confirm that the life of the Armstrong PSB 460 bushing kit is worth the price. I think I would be OK with a stiffer ride and spraying some WD-40 in there occasionally for the squeak (I think).
Right now, I spent $658 on Mevotech arms (Lifetime warranty) and $68 on a pair of NIST ball joints. Bushing replacement looks to be as low as $53-$78, with $275 for Armstrong PSB 460. This is still much cheaper than new arms, but a lot of hassle to press them out. Leaning towards buying a set of the cheap bushings and try the press method, but only if I can get my hands on the ball joints also.
Shoot me a link, as I've gone through febest and all they have is the ball joint on the front steering knuckle. I am looking for the ball joints for the upper control arms and the front lower forward control arms.
Shoot me a link, as I've gone through febest and all they have is the ball joint on the front steering knuckle. I am looking for the ball joints for the upper control arms and the front lower forward control arms.
i could be wrong but from the diagram all the ball joints look the same.. but like I said could be wrong just message febest on Facebook and ask.
The control arm ball joints are not serviceable/replaceable. If you need need ball joints they’re only available with a new control arm. The large ball joints that are pressed into the steering knuckle are available.
The control arm ball joints are not serviceable/replaceable. If you need need ball joints they’re only available with a new control arm. The large ball joints that are pressed into the steering knuckle are available.
what exactly are you talking about when it comes to steering knuckle ?
I can’t read the number on your drawing, but it’s the large vertical piece that the upper control arms connect to on the top, and the lower arms connect to the bottom. That is the steering knuckle to which the wheel bearing hub assembly is attached, as well as break components and the replaceable large ball joint is pressed in the knuckle.
I can’t read the number on your drawing, but it’s the large vertical piece that the upper control arms connect to on the top, and the lower arms connect to the bottom. That is the steering knuckle to which the wheel bearing hub assembly is attached, as well as break components and the replaceable large ball joint is pressed in the knuckle.
well as you can see febest makes ball joints for the control arms so I have no idea what you are referring to. Everything in that diagram I would consider a control arm and Is usually labelled as such
jdan - Everything in that diagram isn't a control arm. Febest does make ball joints for the LS 460, but it is only the large ball joint that presses into the knuckle. If you saw it, you'd clearly see it is far larger than the small ball joints at the end of the control arms.
The picture below is a left front knuckle from an LS 460. You can see the large ball joint pressed into the lower portion.
OutofSpec is correct. I just did the steering knuckle ball joints this weekend and it's a PITA because of the curve of that knuckle, but they were $68 for the pair vs $1100 for two new knuckles from Lexus. Big damn difference. My same logic applies to the control arms. I find it hard to believe that the ball joints on the control arms can't be pressed out. I'm exhausted from having pressed in ball joints on the steering knuckle, so not in any hurry to jump on the arms, but I intend to try it if I can find potential replacements. The ball joints are in the arm, so someone pressed them in. If the potential replacement is too expensive (don't know why), then I won't bother with it.
Lots of parts that were once serviceable, with readily available service parts are no longer that way. Wheel bearing assemblies, alternators, solenoids, PS pumps, water pumps, etc. are all sealed units. I’ve rebuilt a lot of front ends over the years and most control arms (that I’ve seen any way), mainly upper, have integrated non-replaceable ball joints. They’re pressed at the factory and not designed to be serviced. I suppose, you could find a machinist, like the ones in Cuba, that retrofit Russian pistons to small block Chevy’s to keep them running, who could cobble something together, but at what cost and risk. With all that said, I share your frustration tossing away a $400 part because a $20 ball joint failed, but I don’t see how you get around it.
11-09-18, 01:11 PM
