Lavrishevo

iTrader: (1)

Check out this thread. Techron is actually not very effective. I have used Lucas and it is decent in my opinion. I currently use the large bottle of Dura Lube Severe System Cleaner. I like it because it is meant to treat large fuel tanks. Walmart sells it for about $11 Certain chemicals can damage nylon components which is not a good thing.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...&Number=261713

NickTee

You're just wasting your money.

roadfrog

I think you guys are missing the point. These cleaners are not about cleaning the injectors. They are cleaning the throttle body, carbon from the valves, air induction system, combustion chamber and pistons. If you don't think there's any carbon in your engine (especially for those of you who have to suffer from ethanol fuels), you're kidding yourself. Carbon build up is causing grief for many newer vehicle owners (ask me how I know - 4.4 liter equipped BMW's).

Yes, modern FI systems don't really need the cleaning, but again, some of your other components do. THAT is where the Techron shines.

On edit: Also, Lucas is more of an upper cylinder lubricant (which is why they recommend using on every tank fill up), while Techron is a cleaner that uses Polyether Amine(PEA). Same chemical used by Redline and other reputable companies.

Lavrishevo

iTrader: (1)

Carbon builds up in every engine. It is the natural process of combustion. On the valves, tops of the piston, and all over the place. As Roadfrog mentioned, it's not just about dirty injectors. I don't worry about it but I do run a bottle through every 5k miles. The less carbon that build up the more efficient the engine will be. I clean my throttle body and MAF sensor every 10k miles or so because it is very easy. Just good practices.

bsl888

I occasionally use the Chevron Techron, I buy a box from Costco. I have also seen a Toyota brand fuel injector cleaner at the parts dept of a Toyota dealer, has anyone seen, or used it before?

Nospinzone

I used to use the stuff regularly and then for some reason (probably CRS) I stopped. Next time I'm at Costco I'll pick some up. Thanks for the reminder.

antonios32

I use the Chevron Tech Fuel System Cleaner once every 3 months.

NickTee

You're kidding yourself if you think that these cleaners are actually breaking down carbon deposits in the engine during the combustion process. Perhaps you have never taken apart an engine before and cleaned off the carbon, but simply adding a bit of a solvent into the combustion process isn't cleaning it. Even with carb cleaner and the heads off, you need to spray it, let it soak, spray it again or scrape the carbon off. And this was a light layer of carbon.

No matter what you do, that carbon build-up is going to occur. Even with Sea Foam use. GASP! You want to clean carbon off stuff, pull the heads. You can even pull a plug and spray it on the cylinders to let them soak, then run the engine.

7milesout

The first couple guys to dredge this back up are correct, in my opinion. NickTee is correct also.

There are people who tend to discuss things about engine internals as if what they are imagining is fact, when it is just unknown and conjecture. And I'm not talking about roadfrog. The only way to know what is going on for sure on the inside of an engine is to tear it down.

I spent 15 years as an engineer in automotive engineering. And if you're a car guy working in automotive engineering, you tend to learn a lot. Believe it or not, most automotive engineers are NOT car guys. I consider every person on this thread a "car guy" or they would not be in here in the first place. In my time in automotive, one of the things I learned struck a chord with me.

I have to share this story: I very close buddy of mine bought a Firebird for his son. It was well used, and a V6. So it was more like a Firechicken ... which is the way to go with a teenager. He got it cheap because it wasn't working right. This guy was a car guy too, and his son and him worked this car over this way and that to make it work right. They finally boiled the problem down to it having to be the injectors. So they ran fuel injector cleaner in the car. They ran it at suggested concentration and all it ever seem to do was get worse. Finally they bit the bullet and removed the injectors and sent them to a shop.

My buddy hoped that would do the trick. He talked to the shop owner after a day or so to find out the progress. The owner said that he'd gotten 5 of them cleaned up, but didn't know if he could even get the 6th to unclog or not (eventually he did get it cleaned). My buddy asked the shop owner, "I've ran a lot of injector cleaner in it. What do you think about injector cleaner?"

My buddy told me the shop owner smiled and said, "I love injector cleaner! It has been the single most profitable crap for me, to enter the automotive retail market ever! Ever since injector cleaner I have boomed with fuel injector work." My buddy asked why, and the shop owner explained that fuel injector cleaner goes to work as soon as it enters the tank. It gets to the bottom of the tank and loosens the crap out of the bottom, and sends the crap down the fuel lines. It then clogs filters if they're there, and what makes it past the filters stands a great chance of clogging injectors. It does a great job of that.

In the end, the shop owner said, the only way to clean injectors is in a shop like his. And that running good clean fuel is the only defense. And even at that, eventually stuff builds up. Just nothing to do about it, except clean or replace injectors.

I've never ran injector cleaner in any of my vehicles. I have yet to have any fuel system problems. Maybe I'm just lucky though.


7milesout

Devh

This is correct. I learned the hard way using actual piston soaking and a bunch of other induction cleanings to find the truth using a boroscope.

Induction cleaning was only beneficial with EGR equipped cars in the past. Induction cleaners and injector cleaners do work to a very limited extent and then it returns quickly back to it's present condition. You may feel a difference but it's only temporary.

If you have excessive carbon build up then there is a problem with the engine and no amount of cleaner is going to fix it.

The only thing that will give you an improvement is an actual injector cleaning service where they can flow test each injector, ultrasonically clean them and then balance them by swamping out injectors. This makes the idle smooth and give the car a very good power delivery.

The detergents in fuel are more then enough to keep the valves clean.

Doublebase

I'll take this a step further...removing the heads and cleaning the components with seafoam, or any other solvent, is not going to be enough. You are going to have to do some serious scraping - along with a solvent - to have any chance of getting carbon off. Carbon will laugh at "cleaners" you add to fuel. The only way these things could work is if you were to spray it onto the contaminated spot directly....every single second that engine ran...forevever.

People put the stuff in because it makes them feel good, and I'm fine with that. If it makes you feel good, do it.

NickTee

Yup, Sea foam is a joke, though it makes nice smoke clouds. You need something along the lines of carb cleaner, you need to let is soak, and you may need to scrape at it to get it off.

Bingo. You could always try using methanol/water injection to help cool your IAT and clean your engine, but it's really a waste of time. Modern fuels are designed to help prevent carbon buildup, but engines are never perfectly efficient in combusting the fuel and air, which will eventually leave deposits.
As I said, I have seen engine tear-downs of cars that used only premium fuels from reputable sources and religious Sea Foaming from day one(seven dollars a can adds up quickly when it does nothing) and they still had carbon build-up. Why? Because no injected cleaner is going to magically clean the carbon.

roadfrog

There's other tests and papers that support what I said, but here's one:

http://www.topgear.com.ph/news/techn...an-your-engine

Some here might also remember the 5th Gear epsiode where they did dyno tests after doing several different things to a vehicle's engine - the biggest change in performance was the addition of Redex (a fuel system additive).

Anyway scads of info to peruse. The consensus among the stuff I saw, was that fuel injector cleaning was a scam with modern fuel injectors (as I stated already in my previous post), but that they do work for the rest of the system as noted in that post. For 15 bucks or so per year, I don't mind taking my chances. Also, I'm not for once suggesting that a bottle of Techron will remove your carboned-up ports on your heads, but that it can help reduce the build up or at least help keep clean other components of your engine. Having been an unfortunate victim as other 7 Series owners of the Secondary Air System carbon build up issue (PO492 and 491 error codes) and the carboned up heads resulting in failed emissions testing, I am familiar with how hard it is to remove. I'm also familiar with the failed attempts by other 7 series owners in using Seafoam to correct those same issues. AGA in Escondido has made a fortune in selling their kits to remove that carbon without actually removing the heads.

Devh

There is value in the Techron only if it is an additive used in gasoline and the reason why is that you needed all the time. Once you stop using it, the car will quickly go back to the way it was which is a normal condition.
If the car is benefited greatly because of a decarbonizing agent then there is something wrong with the engine design.

I would say you are better off buying fuel from a major chain that uses their proprietary additive added to their fuel at the pump.

Devh

Agreed, that bit of carbon on the pistons head is just seasoning especially on modern engines that burn cleaner and leaner. The only carbon that is of concern is what the gas doesn't touch which is on the oil drain holes in the piston. Toyota has had problems with this in the past and the solution is using a quality synthetic oil to keep those passages from occluding.

Another thing to consider is that using fuel additives can reduce the combustibility of the fuel. I have witness this first hand when I use to monitor my fuel trims.