"Surging" phenomenon while braking
Thread Starter
Lexus Champion
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,727
Likes: 2
From: N/A
"Surging" phenomenon while braking
Hey guys, I was driving my father's LS 460 yesterday and noticed somewhat of a "surging" phenomenon upon braking.
Applying light but steady braking resulted in oscillating braking behavior. It seemed as though the braking would oscillate in intensity/efficacy from moderate to "extremely grabby."
For example, decelerating from 60 MPH might look something like this (length along one dimension is proportional to time) -
60...57...54...51...47.44.39...36...33...30...27.22.18...15... and so on
........................."brake surge".............."brake surge".....
Is this a cause for concern?
It has not caught the attention of my father - I suppose he's either gotten used to it or hasn't noticed, but I just wanted to be sure.
Applying light but steady braking resulted in oscillating braking behavior. It seemed as though the braking would oscillate in intensity/efficacy from moderate to "extremely grabby."
For example, decelerating from 60 MPH might look something like this (length along one dimension is proportional to time) -
60...57...54...51...47.44.39...36...33...30...27.22.18...15... and so on
........................."brake surge".............."brake surge".....
Is this a cause for concern?
It has not caught the attention of my father - I suppose he's either gotten used to it or hasn't noticed, but I just wanted to be sure.
Last edited by syzygy; Apr 29, 2010 at 08:21 AM.
Pole Position
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,730
Likes: 26
From: Sakon Nakhon
Never happened to me on either the 460 or 600. The LS has big hefty discs which in my tenure did not fade or suffer any runout (warping) caused by overheating discs that are too thin to begin with - an all-too-common annoyance with most cars. Better bring it in to check for that or some play in the bearings (although rare, you never know). Another possibility would be tires (balance or uneven wear), or even caster & camber.
Last edited by Johnny; Apr 29, 2010 at 05:47 PM.
CL Community Team
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,264
Likes: 481
From: MA
What you are describing sounds like hard spots on the brake pads. This typically occurs when brakes are not properly broken in. With new brake pads the driver should stop the car with long gradual stops, as opposed to jamming on the brakes. Hard braking with new brake pads causes hard spots on the pads. This in turn causes the brakes to grab and release thus giving you that surge sensation.
The only thing you can do is get new pads and probably have the rotors turned just to be on the safe side. Then, tell your Dad to brake very gradually for the first 500 to 1000 miles. After that he can start braking hard again!
The only thing you can do is get new pads and probably have the rotors turned just to be on the safe side. Then, tell your Dad to brake very gradually for the first 500 to 1000 miles. After that he can start braking hard again!
Thread Starter
Lexus Champion
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,727
Likes: 2
From: N/A
Interesting. I appreciate the responses, all.
My dad does have a habit of braking hard at the last moment at stop lights, much to my mother's dismay. Nospinzone may have resolved the issue with his post. I will look into it.
On a slightly unrelated note, I must say it's truly a pleasure driving the LS 460 (I personally have an '09 IS350). Definitely garners plenty of looks from women on campus when they see a 21 year old driving an $80,000+ "executive-style" luxury sedan. Car has surprisingly powerful acceleration for being such a large sedan, as well. Very impressive.
My dad does have a habit of braking hard at the last moment at stop lights, much to my mother's dismay. Nospinzone may have resolved the issue with his post. I will look into it.
On a slightly unrelated note, I must say it's truly a pleasure driving the LS 460 (I personally have an '09 IS350). Definitely garners plenty of looks from women on campus when they see a 21 year old driving an $80,000+ "executive-style" luxury sedan. Car has surprisingly powerful acceleration for being such a large sedan, as well. Very impressive.
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Pole Position
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,730
Likes: 26
From: Sakon Nakhon
Interesting. I appreciate the responses, all.
My dad does have a habit of braking hard at the last moment at stop lights, much to my mother's dismay. Nospinzone may have resolved the issue with his post. I will look into it.
On a slightly unrelated note, I must say it's truly a pleasure driving the LS 460 (I personally have an '09 IS350). Definitely garners plenty of looks from women on campus when they see a 21 year old driving an $80,000+ "executive-style" luxury sedan. Car has surprisingly powerful acceleration for being such a large sedan, as well. Very impressive.
My dad does have a habit of braking hard at the last moment at stop lights, much to my mother's dismay. Nospinzone may have resolved the issue with his post. I will look into it.
On a slightly unrelated note, I must say it's truly a pleasure driving the LS 460 (I personally have an '09 IS350). Definitely garners plenty of looks from women on campus when they see a 21 year old driving an $80,000+ "executive-style" luxury sedan. Car has surprisingly powerful acceleration for being such a large sedan, as well. Very impressive.
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Joined: Oct 2008
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From: SF Bay Area, CA
Before doing this you can try to re-bed the pads to even out any uneven deposits you may already have on the rotors. If this does not work, then go for pad replacement and/or rotor resurfacing.
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
From: Florida
Mine does the same thing...
It is a barely noticable surging (good description), slightly herky-jerky stopping action. It is VERY subtle and I do not think most people will notice it. However, I just started noticing this after the last service in which they rotated the tires and checked the brakes as part of the service (all green boxes checked on the itemized maintenance list).
I will be bringing the car in to get checked out as soon as I get a free afternoon. I get the feeling I will get a "this is normal" or "buy this, this and this" routine......
I see one other poster here who notices this braking behavior. Could this really be something normal?
I will be bringing the car in to get checked out as soon as I get a free afternoon. I get the feeling I will get a "this is normal" or "buy this, this and this" routine......
I see one other poster here who notices this braking behavior. Could this really be something normal?
1st Gear
Joined: Sep 2024
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Could this be my issue as well?
I purchased a 2014 GX 460 in October 2023.I’ve recently started noticing a “surging” that I seem to only notice in a drive thru. For example, when my car is in drive but my foot is on the break, as is usual in a drive thru, maybe stopped on brake for longer than expected…. Anyways, 4 days ago this happened again but this time the car shut off completely. I put it in park and it turned right back on. I just have no clue what to do to fix this…
What you are describing sounds like hard spots on the brake pads. This typically occurs when brakes are not properly broken in. With new brake pads the driver should stop the car with long gradual stops, as opposed to jamming on the brakes. Hard braking with new brake pads causes hard spots on the pads. This in turn causes the brakes to grab and release thus giving you that surge sensation.
The only thing you can do is get new pads and probably have the rotors turned just to be on the safe side. Then, tell your Dad to brake very gradually for the first 500 to 1000 miles. After that he can start braking hard again!
The only thing you can do is get new pads and probably have the rotors turned just to be on the safe side. Then, tell your Dad to brake very gradually for the first 500 to 1000 miles. After that he can start braking hard again!
Pit Crew
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 100
Likes: 9
From: NY
Wrong car and not your issue!
I purchased a 2014 GX 460 in October 2023.I’ve recently started noticing a “surging” that I seem to only notice in a drive thru. For example, when my car is in drive but my foot is on the break, as is usual in a drive thru, maybe stopped on brake for longer than expected…. Anyways, 4 days ago this happened again but this time the car shut off completely. I put it in park and it turned right back on. I just have no clue what to do to fix this…
You now have a 10 year old GX. What you have is VERY different and needs to be taken in for service.
Pit Crew
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 182
Likes: 16
From: BC
Not sure if this is helpful but my Lexus GS350 had very similar symptoms and turned out to be a seized slid pin on one of the back brakes. The boot had a hole which eventually caused a lot of corrosion to build up. Once that was fixed the braking is now smooth as ever again.