Finally drove an LS460 SWB. I heard there's an early bird special at the Sizzler!
07-09-07, 06:51 PM
#1
Rookie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Finally drove an LS460 SWB. I heard there's an early bird special at the Sizzler!
What gets me all hot and bothered over a car (aside from two blond supermodels wearing bikinis in the front seat)? Well for starters, I appreciate a nice sound system where I can listen to Beethoven, Bach, Guns and Roses and the Ramones. I like a luxurious interior with comfortable seats, soft leather and gorgeous wood trim. I like a quiet driving position, and a whole host of intelligently designed options that go a long way toward simplifying my daily driving existence.
There’s one thing that is even more important than all of these other things combined. I want the car to handle in a controllable fashion. What do I mean by this vague term? Since I’m not an Mech E, I can’t describe this concept using scientific or engineering terminology. Nor can I provide intelligent discourse from the vantage point of an autocross, or high performance driver. Instead, I can try to describe this idea using things that the average schmuck (like me) can understand.
Do you remember when you bought your first car? If you’re a middle-class slob like me, it’s likely that you brought home a very-well used car that registered over 100,000 miles on the odometer. In my case, it was a 1996 Chevy Caprice Classic Wagon that successfully hauled my life back and forth to college and to my first job over an eight year period. I remember my first trip out to school after spring break. I was traveling down the highway doing about 70 mph, and hit a collection of frost heaves in the road. Even though the shocks had recently been replaced on this car, the “body by Fisher” bounced in the air, taking flight like the mechanical bull in “Urban Cowboy”. The car seemed to jump in all directions, and even though the tires were flat on the ground, I felt as if I had no control over the movement of the car. The bouncing finally subsided a couple of yards beyond the heaves, but the experience left me completely out of sorts. Cornering the car offered up the same, vague, imprecise feeling. Even at speeds as low as forty MPH, the car gave the impression that it was about to either tip, or slide off the sharp off ramp. If you asked me at the time, I felt that something else was in control of the car, rather than my own driving skills.
These kinds of driving experiences continued for a number of years until I nailed my first job as a sales rep for a high-end electronics company. During one national sales meeting in Oregon, I went to rent a car from Hertz, and discovered that the rest of the sales force had cleaned out the inventory of cars at this particular office. After scrounging the inventory, the clerk presented me with the keys to a brand new Audi 5000 sedan. I have to say that I wasn’t particularly impressed with the car. The interior was decidedly Spartan, at least compared to the Cadillacs and Lincolns supplied to the other sales reps. The car was much smaller, and had a much less impressive engine. I politely argued with the girl for at least fifteen minutes, but there was nothing else available to rent (unless I wanted a Ford Escort wagon. Getting into the car, I bucked my seatbelt, and headed into downtown Portland. I fully expected that Japanese econobox feeling. Instead, by the time I exited the airport property, I had fallen in love with the car. I can’t say that the car could have been characterized as a sports car. It wasn’t a Porsche, a Lotus or a Ferrari. Even so, something was decidedly different about the car compared to anything else I had ever driven. First off, regardless of the road surface, I always felt like I was in control of the vehicle. When the car bounced, it bounced in a predictable fashion. I could soon tell exactly how high the car was going to bounce, and how long it was going to take to stabilize. When the car bounced up, it bounced in a single plane – up and down. There was no wobble, side-to-side motion, or wallow. The car reacted in a perfectly predictable fashion. Even big bumps failed to disturb the suspension. The car stayed glued to the pavement, and kept the motion under control.
Cornering was even better. When I entered a freeway offramp at 55 mph, the car cornered as if it had been glued to a banked set of railroad tracks. The body didn’t roll toward the outside of the curve. Instead, the body stayed flat, and the wheels tracked around the corner with little squealing of rubber. Instead of feeling like the car was going to tip, the car instead followed my steering wheel input. The car was so stable, and so responsive, that I felt this strange urge that I wanted to drive for the entire night. While the rest of the sales reps were hanging around the bars after meetings, I took my Audi, and spent most of the evening and early morning driving around the streets of Oregon with my boss discussing sales training materials and having an absolute blast. Whenever the opportunity arose to drive anywhere, I made sure the Audi went along, with me as Le Chauffeur. That trip occurred almost 20 years ago, and I still remember the experience as if it were yesterday.
Fast forward to 2003 when a close friend purchased a black on black LS430 with a European handling package, and invited me up for a test drive. Having driven lots of luxury land yachts since the beginning of my career, I fully expected the LS to be nothing more than a heavy-duty Avalon with a soft ride, lots of body roll, and a complete lack of control over the vehicle’s suspension. Instead, I was amazed. That “I wanna drive for the rest of my life” feeling that I last felt in an Audi returned in spades. Sure the LS wasn’t an Audi, but the car reacted predictably in bumps, and cornered remarkably well for a heavy luxuro-cruiser. I always felt as if I was in complete control regardless of the road terrain. It was a wonderful feeling, and it caused me to immediately begin the search for an LS of my own. It was that wonderful. Correspondingly, the stock LS was a disappointment. The suspension was Cadillac-like soft, and the car wallowed around like an ocean-going cruise ship. Sure the ride was soft, quiet, and comfortable, but driving the car was like driving with gallons of novacaine floating around your bloodstream.
Fast forward to April 2007. I just returned from a two year travel trip, and decided to re-initiate the process to pick up a Lexus. I visited my local dealer, and took out a SWB LS460 for a spin. I wanted to take out a touring package car, but the dealer told me that Lexus wasn’t shipping that particular option in anything other than a special order vehicle. Research on the Internet suggested that Lexus had drastically improved the suspension on the car, thus negating the need for a Euro handling package on the SWB car. Other Lexus owners promised that I was going to love the new design. After the usual introduction to the car, the salesman and I headed off.
Within a minute, I hated the car. OK, I didn’t hate it, but I found myself incredibly bored. I honestly felt as if I was driving my Aunt’s Avalon. The suspension was much tighter than the stock LS 430. You could feel most road imperfections, and body roll was much reduced around corners. Gone was the mushy, soft Cadillac ride that so characterized the older LS. Even so, the car did not react predictably when riding on anything other than a perfectly flat, perfectly smooth road. It bounced like an Avalon. It rolled like an Avalon. It did everything like an Avalon, including boring me to tears. The car wasn’t dead quiet, on account of the tire noise as well as wind noise coming from the front window. It didn’t change lanes with instantaneous reactivity, and it sure as hell didn’t encourage me to drive the car with an attitude. I couldn’t stop asking myself the question “why would I spend $70k for an Avalon” every time the car hit a bump. The final evidence that something was wrong showed itself when I pulled into the parking lot of the dealership after the test drive. When I drove the LS with the Euro package, I never wanted the driving trip to end. Even when we pulled into my friend’s garage, I wanted to take the car out for another spin. With the 460, I couldn’t have cared less. I couldn’t hop out of the car fast enough. I wanted to get back to the office to bill some consulting time.
People tell me that the touring package on the 460L addresses most of these issues. I’ve yet to test drive one, so I can’t say. The dealership claims that Lexus is not shipping any touring package cars for stock, so there aren’t any to test drive. None-the-less, I’m not thrilled about having to spend $10,000 for a long wheelbased car over its shorter brother in order to get the touring package. Why don’t I buy an Audi? One word: reliability. I’ve yet to talk to an Audi owner who doesn’t spend huge amounts of expensive, lengthy time at the local Audi service shop. I spend most of my time visiting customer sites, and can’t afford to waste time ferrying my car back and forth for service. As much fun as the A6 or A8 is to drive, I can’t justify the time to cope with the service issues. Mercedes Benz? I’ve heard that the reliability problems are gone, but I’m not happy about the price, nor the message that a new S class would send to my decidedly less-ostentatious neighborhood. Plus I find Mercedes dealerships even snottier than those in the Lexus stable. BMW? I’ve heard that these are LESS reliable than the Audis. It also seems as if only *******s drive BMW, and I’m not enough of a ***** to qualify.
I don’t expect miracles here. I don’t expect for the car to felate me, rub my feet, serve me a fresh Kir Royale, or lead me to that backwoods BBQ joint in southern Alabama. I do want the car to tickle my toes such that I have goosebumps while getting behind the wheel. The stock LS didn’t give me goosebumps. It made me want to check into the nearest assisted living facility for an afternoon of naps, shuffleboard and chicken fingers. It made me want to find the nearest early-bird special in and around Naples Florida. It made me want to locate a full bottle of Geritol, so that I could stay up to watch the Lawrence Welk program.
I’m hoping that the touring package on the L series causes this car to drive like the LS430 that my friend bought four years ago. Once I test drive one, I’ll post the results on this board. In my opinion though, I could never bring myself to spend $70k on a car like the 460 SWB.
ZZZzzzzz.
There’s one thing that is even more important than all of these other things combined. I want the car to handle in a controllable fashion. What do I mean by this vague term? Since I’m not an Mech E, I can’t describe this concept using scientific or engineering terminology. Nor can I provide intelligent discourse from the vantage point of an autocross, or high performance driver. Instead, I can try to describe this idea using things that the average schmuck (like me) can understand.
Do you remember when you bought your first car? If you’re a middle-class slob like me, it’s likely that you brought home a very-well used car that registered over 100,000 miles on the odometer. In my case, it was a 1996 Chevy Caprice Classic Wagon that successfully hauled my life back and forth to college and to my first job over an eight year period. I remember my first trip out to school after spring break. I was traveling down the highway doing about 70 mph, and hit a collection of frost heaves in the road. Even though the shocks had recently been replaced on this car, the “body by Fisher” bounced in the air, taking flight like the mechanical bull in “Urban Cowboy”. The car seemed to jump in all directions, and even though the tires were flat on the ground, I felt as if I had no control over the movement of the car. The bouncing finally subsided a couple of yards beyond the heaves, but the experience left me completely out of sorts. Cornering the car offered up the same, vague, imprecise feeling. Even at speeds as low as forty MPH, the car gave the impression that it was about to either tip, or slide off the sharp off ramp. If you asked me at the time, I felt that something else was in control of the car, rather than my own driving skills.
These kinds of driving experiences continued for a number of years until I nailed my first job as a sales rep for a high-end electronics company. During one national sales meeting in Oregon, I went to rent a car from Hertz, and discovered that the rest of the sales force had cleaned out the inventory of cars at this particular office. After scrounging the inventory, the clerk presented me with the keys to a brand new Audi 5000 sedan. I have to say that I wasn’t particularly impressed with the car. The interior was decidedly Spartan, at least compared to the Cadillacs and Lincolns supplied to the other sales reps. The car was much smaller, and had a much less impressive engine. I politely argued with the girl for at least fifteen minutes, but there was nothing else available to rent (unless I wanted a Ford Escort wagon. Getting into the car, I bucked my seatbelt, and headed into downtown Portland. I fully expected that Japanese econobox feeling. Instead, by the time I exited the airport property, I had fallen in love with the car. I can’t say that the car could have been characterized as a sports car. It wasn’t a Porsche, a Lotus or a Ferrari. Even so, something was decidedly different about the car compared to anything else I had ever driven. First off, regardless of the road surface, I always felt like I was in control of the vehicle. When the car bounced, it bounced in a predictable fashion. I could soon tell exactly how high the car was going to bounce, and how long it was going to take to stabilize. When the car bounced up, it bounced in a single plane – up and down. There was no wobble, side-to-side motion, or wallow. The car reacted in a perfectly predictable fashion. Even big bumps failed to disturb the suspension. The car stayed glued to the pavement, and kept the motion under control.
Cornering was even better. When I entered a freeway offramp at 55 mph, the car cornered as if it had been glued to a banked set of railroad tracks. The body didn’t roll toward the outside of the curve. Instead, the body stayed flat, and the wheels tracked around the corner with little squealing of rubber. Instead of feeling like the car was going to tip, the car instead followed my steering wheel input. The car was so stable, and so responsive, that I felt this strange urge that I wanted to drive for the entire night. While the rest of the sales reps were hanging around the bars after meetings, I took my Audi, and spent most of the evening and early morning driving around the streets of Oregon with my boss discussing sales training materials and having an absolute blast. Whenever the opportunity arose to drive anywhere, I made sure the Audi went along, with me as Le Chauffeur. That trip occurred almost 20 years ago, and I still remember the experience as if it were yesterday.
Fast forward to 2003 when a close friend purchased a black on black LS430 with a European handling package, and invited me up for a test drive. Having driven lots of luxury land yachts since the beginning of my career, I fully expected the LS to be nothing more than a heavy-duty Avalon with a soft ride, lots of body roll, and a complete lack of control over the vehicle’s suspension. Instead, I was amazed. That “I wanna drive for the rest of my life” feeling that I last felt in an Audi returned in spades. Sure the LS wasn’t an Audi, but the car reacted predictably in bumps, and cornered remarkably well for a heavy luxuro-cruiser. I always felt as if I was in complete control regardless of the road terrain. It was a wonderful feeling, and it caused me to immediately begin the search for an LS of my own. It was that wonderful. Correspondingly, the stock LS was a disappointment. The suspension was Cadillac-like soft, and the car wallowed around like an ocean-going cruise ship. Sure the ride was soft, quiet, and comfortable, but driving the car was like driving with gallons of novacaine floating around your bloodstream.
Fast forward to April 2007. I just returned from a two year travel trip, and decided to re-initiate the process to pick up a Lexus. I visited my local dealer, and took out a SWB LS460 for a spin. I wanted to take out a touring package car, but the dealer told me that Lexus wasn’t shipping that particular option in anything other than a special order vehicle. Research on the Internet suggested that Lexus had drastically improved the suspension on the car, thus negating the need for a Euro handling package on the SWB car. Other Lexus owners promised that I was going to love the new design. After the usual introduction to the car, the salesman and I headed off.
Within a minute, I hated the car. OK, I didn’t hate it, but I found myself incredibly bored. I honestly felt as if I was driving my Aunt’s Avalon. The suspension was much tighter than the stock LS 430. You could feel most road imperfections, and body roll was much reduced around corners. Gone was the mushy, soft Cadillac ride that so characterized the older LS. Even so, the car did not react predictably when riding on anything other than a perfectly flat, perfectly smooth road. It bounced like an Avalon. It rolled like an Avalon. It did everything like an Avalon, including boring me to tears. The car wasn’t dead quiet, on account of the tire noise as well as wind noise coming from the front window. It didn’t change lanes with instantaneous reactivity, and it sure as hell didn’t encourage me to drive the car with an attitude. I couldn’t stop asking myself the question “why would I spend $70k for an Avalon” every time the car hit a bump. The final evidence that something was wrong showed itself when I pulled into the parking lot of the dealership after the test drive. When I drove the LS with the Euro package, I never wanted the driving trip to end. Even when we pulled into my friend’s garage, I wanted to take the car out for another spin. With the 460, I couldn’t have cared less. I couldn’t hop out of the car fast enough. I wanted to get back to the office to bill some consulting time.
People tell me that the touring package on the 460L addresses most of these issues. I’ve yet to test drive one, so I can’t say. The dealership claims that Lexus is not shipping any touring package cars for stock, so there aren’t any to test drive. None-the-less, I’m not thrilled about having to spend $10,000 for a long wheelbased car over its shorter brother in order to get the touring package. Why don’t I buy an Audi? One word: reliability. I’ve yet to talk to an Audi owner who doesn’t spend huge amounts of expensive, lengthy time at the local Audi service shop. I spend most of my time visiting customer sites, and can’t afford to waste time ferrying my car back and forth for service. As much fun as the A6 or A8 is to drive, I can’t justify the time to cope with the service issues. Mercedes Benz? I’ve heard that the reliability problems are gone, but I’m not happy about the price, nor the message that a new S class would send to my decidedly less-ostentatious neighborhood. Plus I find Mercedes dealerships even snottier than those in the Lexus stable. BMW? I’ve heard that these are LESS reliable than the Audis. It also seems as if only *******s drive BMW, and I’m not enough of a ***** to qualify.
I don’t expect miracles here. I don’t expect for the car to felate me, rub my feet, serve me a fresh Kir Royale, or lead me to that backwoods BBQ joint in southern Alabama. I do want the car to tickle my toes such that I have goosebumps while getting behind the wheel. The stock LS didn’t give me goosebumps. It made me want to check into the nearest assisted living facility for an afternoon of naps, shuffleboard and chicken fingers. It made me want to find the nearest early-bird special in and around Naples Florida. It made me want to locate a full bottle of Geritol, so that I could stay up to watch the Lawrence Welk program.
I’m hoping that the touring package on the L series causes this car to drive like the LS430 that my friend bought four years ago. Once I test drive one, I’ll post the results on this board. In my opinion though, I could never bring myself to spend $70k on a car like the 460 SWB.
ZZZzzzzz.
07-09-07, 07:02 PM
#3
So what's next for you a Kia? Sounds like you don't have the $. I really like my LS 460 and this is my 5th Lexus. I guess you didn't like the Mark Levinson sound system either LOL!
Craig
Craig
07-09-07, 07:14 PM
#5
Rookie
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: CA
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Very amusing write-up! Thanks for that. The LS is definitely not for everyone. Perhaps in the future the driving experience will be improved. For now, it seems like the target was to produce the Ultimate Riding Machine.
And there's the issue of wind noise, which detracts from the comfort of the car.
Still hoping...
And there's the issue of wind noise, which detracts from the comfort of the car.
Still hoping...
Trending Topics
07-09-07, 08:18 PM
#10
Well I'm not going to force feed myself a steak at 5 in the afternoon just to save myself a couple dollars!
07-10-07, 12:09 AM
#11
Pole Position
07-10-07, 06:00 AM
#12
If by Boring, you mean that you don't feel all of the bumps, jolts and potholes, and noise, then I agree with you, and give be boring any day.
If by Boring, you mean that it doesn't take the slalom at the same speed as a sports car, and leans while doing it, then I couldn't care less, since I have no intention of driving my luxury sedan through a slalom. In an emergency, it performs about as well as any other car in it's class, and that's all that I want.
If by Boring, you mean that while driving down a pleasant road (or even a busy highway), listening to some classical music (or whatever works for YOU) you are enfolded in a cocoon of absolute pleasure and comfort just enjoying the hedonistic bliss, then yes, this is a very boring car.
I guess, to use a vulgar '60's term, "Different strokes for different folks" or "Whatever floats your boat", and the Lexus LS definitely strokes and floats mine!
HBH
If by Boring, you mean that it doesn't take the slalom at the same speed as a sports car, and leans while doing it, then I couldn't care less, since I have no intention of driving my luxury sedan through a slalom. In an emergency, it performs about as well as any other car in it's class, and that's all that I want.
If by Boring, you mean that while driving down a pleasant road (or even a busy highway), listening to some classical music (or whatever works for YOU) you are enfolded in a cocoon of absolute pleasure and comfort just enjoying the hedonistic bliss, then yes, this is a very boring car.
I guess, to use a vulgar '60's term, "Different strokes for different folks" or "Whatever floats your boat", and the Lexus LS definitely strokes and floats mine!
HBH
Last edited by Helmar; 07-10-07 at 02:11 PM.
07-10-07, 05:23 PM
#14
Rookie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That's why there's chocolate, and vanilla ice cream. And if you're really strange, pistachio. If everyone liked the same thing, we'd all be driving the same car. Definitely different strokes for different folks.
Since I know there are some people dying for the "right" answer to the question, I drive a 1996 Ford Escort with 200,000 miles. :-) And although I didn't listen to the radio while I was test driving, my friend's Levinson was pretty impressive to say the least.
As I said, I'm withholding final judgment until I drive the touring package. I will post accolades if the touring car delivers.
Since I know there are some people dying for the "right" answer to the question, I drive a 1996 Ford Escort with 200,000 miles. :-) And although I didn't listen to the radio while I was test driving, my friend's Levinson was pretty impressive to say the least.
As I said, I'm withholding final judgment until I drive the touring package. I will post accolades if the touring car delivers.
Last edited by massshelti; 07-10-07 at 05:26 PM.
07-10-07, 05:25 PM
#15
Rookie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This actually isn't a bad idea. Is there any way to find out who owns such an automobile? Is there any way of figuring this out from the RMV? A finished up lease car would be perfect before it gets back to the dealer.