4.6L V8 1UR-FSE analysis
#1
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: A better place
Posts: 7,285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
4.6L V8 1UR-FSE analysis
This is just a simple analysis I am doing of the new 4.6L V8 compared to the old 4.3L 3UZ-FE.
As an aside, Lexus Japan lists the specs for the 4.6L V8 as being 283kW and 500Nm, which equates to 385HP and 369 lb-ft torque. Now, the Lexus Europe site lists specs at 280kW and 493Nm, which equates to 380HP and 363 lb-ft torque. Perhaps different tuning or slightly different standards, but it will be interesting to see final specs for US model.
Now, at 2000 RPM, the 4.6L is making about 116HP and about 310 lb-ft torque already. It's funny that some previews of the new LS mentioned the new engine had "lack of torque". At 2000RPM, this engine is already making about as much torque as the old 4.3L 3UZ-FE made in peak torque output at 3400 RPM. To compare, at 2000RPM, the old 4.3L makes about 108HP and 276 lb-ft torque at 2000RPM.
At 3000RPM, the 4.6L makes about 197HP and about 340 lb-ft torque. Meanwhile, at 3000RPM, the 4.3L is making about 163HP and about 302 lb-ft torque. Just as a curiousity, at 3400RPM, the 4.6L makes about 355 lb-ft torque. So compared with the 4.3L, the 4.6L makes about 14% more torque at the same RPM.
At 4000RPM, the gap only widens. The 4.6L at this point makes about 285HP and has virtually reached it's peak torque at this point, so torque is about 365- 368 lb-ft. The 4.3L makes about 217HP and by this point torque has already dropped to about 305 lb-ft.
Finally, lets compare the output of both engines at 6400RPM, and see how much "juice" each engine still has at such a high RPM. At 6400RPM, the 4.6L reaches peak HP of about 380-385HP. It also, incredibly, is still making about 310 lb-ft of torque at this point. The 4.3L on the other hand, is just about running out of breath, making about 250HP and a lowly 240 lb-ft torque. It's also quite evident how much racing technology and inspiration went into this new 4.6L V8.
Also, if you look at the accompanying 2GR-FSE graph, you'll see that it's HP curve is very similar to the 1UR-FSE's curve. That means Lexus designed this new engine to be more sporty, with a high HP increase as revs increased, yet maintain strong torque. Also we can see that the new 1UR-FSE was tuned a bit more towards HP than torque, again for increased sportiness. Whereas the 2GR-FSE has a very flat torque curve though, the 4.6L V8 has a "mountain" of torque, typical of a V8, designed to give that big torquey "punch".
The upcoming 5.0L V8 which will be first seen in the LS hybrid is for all intents and purposes a bored-out version of the 4.6L V8. This 5.0L unit is already being used in the Rolex Sports Car Series in race form. The torque curve for this engine should be even more impressive. I also personally think that in a few years this engine will be offered in the standard LS as an option, or possibly replace the 4.6L V8. Also latest rumours are that the upcoming Lexus supercar will use a high performance version of this 5.0L V8. If this is the case, it will be the perfect opportunity to showcase what the new 5.0L V8 can do, outside of racing of course.
Finally, here are some pics of the 1UR-FSE along with the accompanying 8 speed tranny:
EDIT: Speculation on upcoming 5.0L V8, and made a few spelling corrections.
As an aside, Lexus Japan lists the specs for the 4.6L V8 as being 283kW and 500Nm, which equates to 385HP and 369 lb-ft torque. Now, the Lexus Europe site lists specs at 280kW and 493Nm, which equates to 380HP and 363 lb-ft torque. Perhaps different tuning or slightly different standards, but it will be interesting to see final specs for US model.
Now, at 2000 RPM, the 4.6L is making about 116HP and about 310 lb-ft torque already. It's funny that some previews of the new LS mentioned the new engine had "lack of torque". At 2000RPM, this engine is already making about as much torque as the old 4.3L 3UZ-FE made in peak torque output at 3400 RPM. To compare, at 2000RPM, the old 4.3L makes about 108HP and 276 lb-ft torque at 2000RPM.
At 3000RPM, the 4.6L makes about 197HP and about 340 lb-ft torque. Meanwhile, at 3000RPM, the 4.3L is making about 163HP and about 302 lb-ft torque. Just as a curiousity, at 3400RPM, the 4.6L makes about 355 lb-ft torque. So compared with the 4.3L, the 4.6L makes about 14% more torque at the same RPM.
At 4000RPM, the gap only widens. The 4.6L at this point makes about 285HP and has virtually reached it's peak torque at this point, so torque is about 365- 368 lb-ft. The 4.3L makes about 217HP and by this point torque has already dropped to about 305 lb-ft.
Finally, lets compare the output of both engines at 6400RPM, and see how much "juice" each engine still has at such a high RPM. At 6400RPM, the 4.6L reaches peak HP of about 380-385HP. It also, incredibly, is still making about 310 lb-ft of torque at this point. The 4.3L on the other hand, is just about running out of breath, making about 250HP and a lowly 240 lb-ft torque. It's also quite evident how much racing technology and inspiration went into this new 4.6L V8.
Also, if you look at the accompanying 2GR-FSE graph, you'll see that it's HP curve is very similar to the 1UR-FSE's curve. That means Lexus designed this new engine to be more sporty, with a high HP increase as revs increased, yet maintain strong torque. Also we can see that the new 1UR-FSE was tuned a bit more towards HP than torque, again for increased sportiness. Whereas the 2GR-FSE has a very flat torque curve though, the 4.6L V8 has a "mountain" of torque, typical of a V8, designed to give that big torquey "punch".
The upcoming 5.0L V8 which will be first seen in the LS hybrid is for all intents and purposes a bored-out version of the 4.6L V8. This 5.0L unit is already being used in the Rolex Sports Car Series in race form. The torque curve for this engine should be even more impressive. I also personally think that in a few years this engine will be offered in the standard LS as an option, or possibly replace the 4.6L V8. Also latest rumours are that the upcoming Lexus supercar will use a high performance version of this 5.0L V8. If this is the case, it will be the perfect opportunity to showcase what the new 5.0L V8 can do, outside of racing of course.
Finally, here are some pics of the 1UR-FSE along with the accompanying 8 speed tranny:
EDIT: Speculation on upcoming 5.0L V8, and made a few spelling corrections.
Last edited by TRDFantasy; 09-21-06 at 09:39 PM.
#2
Lexus Fanatic
Excellent analysis, TRDFantasy!!
Hopefully C&D will do another performance test on a production LS460 and prove once and for all what this gem of an engine is really capable of.
Hopefully C&D will do another performance test on a production LS460 and prove once and for all what this gem of an engine is really capable of.
#3
Thanks! This seems to be an absolutely explosive power. Much better curve than M5.
Can anyone post the torque and hp bands for S-class and 7-series V8s (not V12s). I searched on google and could not find a link.
It will be an interesting comparison side-by-side. lexus may emerge to be a new lord of torque.
Steve
But Lexus needs a new diesel V8 and V12
Can anyone post the torque and hp bands for S-class and 7-series V8s (not V12s). I searched on google and could not find a link.
It will be an interesting comparison side-by-side. lexus may emerge to be a new lord of torque.
Steve
But Lexus needs a new diesel V8 and V12
Last edited by Stevekil; 09-21-06 at 09:08 PM.
#4
Lexus Connoisseur
Because of the direct injection system, the valvetrain of the 1UR-FSE sounds exactly like those found on the 2GR, 3GR and 4GR-FSE powerplants. I wish I had taken sound clips of the LS460 from the inside at idle and WOT. Analyzing it on paper is one thing, driving it and experiencing the power in person is a whole different story.
#5
Because of the direct injection system, the valvetrain of the 1UR-FSE sounds exactly like those found on the 2GR, 3GR and 4GR-FSE powerplants. I wish I had taken sound clips of the LS460 from the inside at idle and WOT. Analyzing it on paper is one thing, driving it and experiencing the power in person is a whole different story.
#6
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: A better place
Posts: 7,285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Because of the direct injection system, the valvetrain of the 1UR-FSE sounds exactly like those found on the 2GR, 3GR and 4GR-FSE powerplants. I wish I had taken sound clips of the LS460 from the inside at idle and WOT. Analyzing it on paper is one thing, driving it and experiencing the power in person is a whole different story.
Trending Topics
#8
exclusive matchup
iTrader: (4)
wow, awesome review there trd, great stuff! i love how you put together the numbers and did the comparisons, very information
about the comment on "lack of tq", i guess maybe it' has to do with the weight as well. here we are talking about engine output solely, however we shouldn't forget the fact that the new ls is about 400lb heavier than the previous one. that's pretty big difference
about the comment on "lack of tq", i guess maybe it' has to do with the weight as well. here we are talking about engine output solely, however we shouldn't forget the fact that the new ls is about 400lb heavier than the previous one. that's pretty big difference
#9
Pole Position
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Saudi Arabia-Lebanon
Posts: 261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
#13
#14
wow, awesome review there trd, great stuff! i love how you put together the numbers and did the comparisons, very information
about the comment on "lack of tq", i guess maybe it' has to do with the weight as well. here we are talking about engine output solely, however we shouldn't forget the fact that the new ls is about 400lb heavier than the previous one. that's pretty big difference
about the comment on "lack of tq", i guess maybe it' has to do with the weight as well. here we are talking about engine output solely, however we shouldn't forget the fact that the new ls is about 400lb heavier than the previous one. that's pretty big difference
I think in the case with mags, it is pretty simple - reviewer sees maximum torque at 4k, hence car does no have any torque before... which would be true if we were talking about 4cly engines and not V8's :-).
#15
Speaks French in Russian