Johnhav430

in PA today, uneventful. I think the car is in tip top shape @ 97k, but of course can't help but wonder when it will get its first fail. For my wife's SUV, it's a 2011 and it failed this year, at age 6. BMW is coming up on 11, no fails yet. My Nissan which is a '98, it had no trouble until about year 15. Point is, the LS is 12 y.o., so at some point it's going to need something...but I do think this car is superiorly constructed when compared to the Nissan, so it may pass 15 and have no inspection issues?

p.s for those in PA I just paid $46 out the door, Toyota got me for $73 last year, when I had a coupon for a free safety inspection (they charge $60 for emissions hahahahahahahahahaha NO What a feeling!). BMW dealer gets $68, but that's with a free loaner car and then you know they lifted the vehicle properly with adapters....it is a rip-off in PA but at the end of the day, it makes it very hard for people to drive junk cars legally....

jayclapp

I owned and drove a 1992 SC400 until 2013 when it was totaled by a blindside. Had 205,000 miles and it never failed an emission test or had any repair regarding emission parts. My current 04 LS430 has 128,000 miles and I don't ever anticipate having an emission problem.

bradland

So in Pa you take your car to a dealer for emissions testing ?!? That just sounds slippery.
In Arizona we take the car to a State facility and the cost is $20. I didn't realize how good we have it...

jayclapp

I also live in Arizona and I can't believe how bad we have it! I have personally spent nearly $1000 on emission tests with not a single failure! How does that benefit me? It doesn't. It benefits the emission test industry and the government. When emission tests were first implemented in late 1970's or early 80's, Arizona installed extensive emission tests. Arizona legislatures cried that the Feds were perched on the state borders and would come in and take control of everything. The result of their inital emission regulations resulted in the original emission test costing nearly $50. The legislature new the public was be in an outrage, so they passed $27 of the fee to vehicle owners and subsidized the outsourced emission tests to privately owned companies. The tests themselves did very little in decreasing emissions. This caused a severe financial pain on older cars when they had to spend needless money in an effort to reduce emissions to meet the new standards. After a few attempts the state would give them an exemption and let them license the car.

Only EPA regulations on future vehicles were gradually responsible for reducing the emissions. But, the state of Arizona refused to recognize that and allowed the tests to become even more restrictive, even including a simulated drive test on dynamometers!

This resulted in car owners waiting in emission test lines that reached an hour or more, creating even more emissions than would otherwise be omitted. The emission testing stations generated tons of data which they sold to other states and emission test companies.

By 1990 the auto manufactureres had reduced the emissions to a level in new cars that made the emission testing having little effect on cars manufactured since then. The state actually recognized this was the case. But they told no one, just started in making newer cars only having to test every other year. And they then let the emission test just resulting in checking whether the car had thrown a code or not. No test required. But the cost of the test remained!

The EPA did a study of predicted emission levels as the EPA standards were being put in place in the 1980'. They showed that overall emission levels would continue to rise until around 1992 where the newer cars were replacing older cars and that would start bringing the total emissions down. I was privy of seeing that report and then noticed that the emission level in Arizona followed the same curve. They have continued to go down. Only federal EPA standards were responsible of reduction of vehicle emissions.

CONCLUSION: Arizonans are not the luckiest people in the U.S. They are run by radical conversatives who are only concerned in profiting corporations while stripping the citizens of money to educate and keep the people healthy and prosperous.

campisi

Gawdam I hates me some "radical conversatives"! In California we are hamstrung by radical liberals. Similar story ... newer cars just have a check for codes or check engine light. That's it, and only once every other year (but of course the price is still about $40 or so depending on the place that does it). Older cars have to go on the dyno with a tailpipe sniffer and do some other checks like gas tank pressurization etc. Super expensive, and inconvenient because there are very few place that can do this test, for the older cars and the reason they do it is to get those cars off the road. Unfortunately the people who drive those older cars are poor people (not the rich f'ing liberal aholes in Frisco and LA) and can't afford the $100 per test EVERY year.

jayclapp

Older cars are no longer a threat to total emissions. They have diminished in number (what a surprise) and the total emissions are now within the federal requirements. Our legislature claims they want to get the federal government out of our lives and in turn they are the ones that are not trying to control our lives with moronic restrictions that they don't even understand.!

Johnhav430

Yep, in PA we have safety and emissions annually, performed by private garages. One year I asked, where's the report, and said dealer stated, that's no longer done. Bold faced lie. So where I am unclear is what happens if a person is issued a sticker, yet no report was ever uploaded to the Commonwealth...I get it, the dealer saved a fee yet charged me. But what happens to me, apparently the system is not smart enough to determine this plate required emissions testing, and it was never performed i.e. no report was uploaded to the state system.

But the price range out the door is about $46 to $110. A coupon may say $34.95, but there is tax, shop fees (hahahahahahaha simply another tax and legal), plus sticker fees. I've always thought the least they could do is to stick them on straight, but that's often not the case.

So in that range, if BMW charges $68 but gives you a brand new loaner, it's worth it to me. Toyota is a joke at $73, you just get stale coffee and nowhere to sit in the lounge. Not sure about Lexus, they never answer the phone.

And no kidding, the place yesterday said your car's perfect there's nothing wrong with it. We're not looking to find reasons to fail you, our business model is to perform inspections by volume. I hate to say this, I am almost certain they did not pull all 4 wheels which is required by law. Why I think they didn't is they can peek through the wheel openings to view the condition of the rotors/pads. But it is inaccurate. Last year Toyota had my rears at 2/32 less than the fronts. This year they reported all 4 as being new.

edit again why I don't think they pulled the wheels--the wheel lock key was not touched. I retorqued the lug nuts and they were not overtightened, which is usually the case if a shop has removed the wheels and put them back

Kweigel

Thank God I live in Ohio. We ain't got none of that. What a racket.

Johnhav430

How about this one....for most of its life, my BMW has been exempt from emissions, due to not meeting a mileage condition. But when you present a shop with a coupon, it's cheaper for them to simply actually do the test, than it is to give you an exempt sticker...lol

Truth be told, most cars nowadays come from the factory with Calif. emissions, most. The likelihood of it not passing is slim to none, unless tampered with. This is PA, not Cali., where people are removing smog stuff etc. So, it really makes little sense and yes we're getting ripped off...even NJ has given up from what I hear...they used to fail cars for poor headlight aim, no longer....

At any rate, why should the price vary depending on what coupon you have, or where you go? I think my over/under is 17 years on the LS430, I hope....again all cars need repairs at some point...

edit I am, however, fascinated. that VA has some automated process by which you exit a highway and your emissions is checked in < 1 min., and you get a bill in the mail for the test. This seems to imply a record of the inspection is required to renew the reggie, and that does not seem to be the case in PA because we're so far behind (for pete's sake, when the annual sticker was supposed to be placed in the upper left corner of the plate, we have folks that randomly stuck them all over the place, maybe 10+ sticker plastering the face of the plate)

http://www.deq.virginia.gov/Portals/...nia_sample.pdf

2KHarrier

Wisconsin is every other year (Bi-annual?) and it's free. Well, there's no cost to me, but the repair shops and dealerships that do emission testing charge 1 hour of shop labor to the state to accomplish this stupidity...
When I lived in Georgia, I had to pay 20 bucks to have the test done, every year. I think it's now 25. I'll have to look this weekend when I'm out driving around the ATL...

Wisconsin vehicle registration is better than Illinois, however...

Jabberwock

I know I'm in the minority but I think a mandatory yearly auto inspection is a very good thing. I recently moved to a state with no required vehicle inspections and sad to say there are a lot of bozos around here driving cars and trucks with 2 of their 3 brake lights burned out, bald mismatched tires, and likely barely functioning brakes. I bet most folks on this board take great care of their cars so mandatory yearly inspections seem like a hassle but the inspections are also there to protect you from other drivers that are a lot less responsible. When you crash into someone because they have no brake lights, or they rear-end you in bad weather because of completely bald tires, inadequate brakes, etc., maybe yearly inspections may seem like a better idea.

Johnhav430

I agree with what you're saying 100%....just don't agree with the reality of PA, where the out the door cost is $46 to $110 annually, depending on where you go...and to reiterate, what I paid was the cheapest one can get, $46 (34.95 coupon, shop fees (tax allowed by law) plus sticker fees plus tax). Toyota dealer $73 with a coupon, BMW dealer $68 with a free loaner, Midas $53 with a $39.95, coupon. There are mom and pop shops who have a permanent $39.95 on their sign--bet it's $65 out the door. Also, there is an incentive to find something wrong. I had 3 guys with one of those LED 1500 lumens lights shining on my undercarriage of my Nissan at Firestone. I said whoa nelly, I jumped out of my seat and said wth are those guys doing to the guy at the cashier? (the math doesn't add up, 3 ASE certified techs on 1 car that's in for an inspection, unless they anticipate a big payday) They come back and say no worries you have a leak, you're not failing, we were just trying to determine if the leak got on the bushing or not, and it didn't.

The inspections should be done, they should be free, or the rate should be fixed, like in NYS, which I believe is $37 period.

jayclapp

Emission tests and safety tests are different things. Safety tests have been mandated for decades, back to 50,s abd 60's in some states. In Arizonna there is not a safety test, just pure emission tests. I consider both of them to be a complete waste of my time and money for my cars.
'

Gronemus

Just had to bring my LS430 in for testing even though I did last year just after I bought it. I was thinking that I wouldn't have to do it this year again.

In Wisconsin they only require you to test your car if it's registered in one of seven counties (out of 72 counties statewide). I know some people who own a second residence outside of that area and will register their cars there in order to bypass having to do this testing. I don't find it too restrictive since I only have to take the car in every 2 years and it generally only takes about 5 or 10 minutes to do the test.

2K, where did you hear that the shops charge one hour of labor to do the tests? I find that figure hard to believe...

jpv7774

Took my 04 LS430 in for inspection....2 hours later they call me to tell me my car is ready. I am a total freak about this car...its my cruiser that spends most of its time waxed and detailed in the garage. They drive the car around the front and leave it running which i didnt even give a second thought. I usually give my car a full once over after having any work done but it was dark when I picked it up. The next day was Saturday ....in the morning i told the wife I was gunna double check the car to see if the shop F'd anything up. Hop in the car and it wont start!!!! Pop the hood to see a brake fluid test strip stuck to a plastic cover. Then look to the battery to see both terminal covers in the up position....WTF???? Then I look closer to see the plastic engine covers passenger side that are in front of the battery are all scratched up...WTF????? I also notice a thick coat of dust all over my engine bay...WTF? I quickly put 2&2 together and I was pissed. Inspection guy probably turns on all lights and walks around the car......after checking all light functions he goes to tires...brakes...etc but leaving lights on. Pops my hood to check brake fluid for inspection....maybe gets called away or goes on lunch. Leaves my lights on the whole time and drains my battery. Well this guy puts his old banged up jump pack on my pristine engine covers and scratches the crap out of them....then jumps my car.......then drives it around to hand off to me ....thinking my drive home will charge the battery.
Long story short....I drove it back to the shop...called the manager out to look at my car...he did the right thing....a complete lay down. Smart man......He gave me a new battery which I wouldnt let his shop install.....and he said he would replace the plastics for me...and he gave me a shop coupon for discounts. At the time I had a brain fart.....I declined the new plastics due to his sincere apology....Later I looked up these plastic covers....$139.00!!! I have to tell u....I screwed up because those scratched pieces bother me every time I pop the hood. I talked to a few people and most say I only had 1 shot at the plastics....should have said yes

Its a shame....but bottom line is I dont trust anyone with my car....I am 52yrs old and have had countless issues with shops screwing up my cars.....

Back on subject sorry for the rant. My car has 144k miles and it past the inspection....but he was claiming my somethin somethin bushings were cracking....but would pass this time. So maybe next year she will fail her first inspection.....due to somethin somethin bushings....forgot which ones.....lets say tie rod......