Doublebase

Honda does not seem to be what it used to be, I have a friend who worked for Honda, he said once the "old man died" Hinda changed.

My wife has an 08 Honda CRV...pretty bullet proof thus far (105k), but the thing just feels cheap. Tin sounding. Doors are cheap. Materials aren't holding up...lots of road noise. I can't keep the thing aligned properly, tires get chewed easily. No power. Not great in the snow and surprisingly not too great on fuel (I actually average better with my ls460 by 2 mpg's).

I owned a 1999 Honda Accord 4cyl auto. The thing was great for the first 150k. At that point I had only done calipers, tie rods, sway bar links, gas tank (design flaw they rot out), engine mounts, charcoal canister. All that and I still considered it great. That carried me into 200k (might have done a couple control arms along the way...more front engine mounts and brake lines). Then after 200k, EGR valve, transmission switches, another charcoal canister, O2 sensor, v-tec switch, rack, engine cradle replaced because of a design flaw and rot, radiator...the cradle was a real biggy (probably would have just junked the car but I had one available laying around). It developed an idle problem and I had been dealing with a vibration at 60mph for a long long time. I gave it to my daughter, the thing kept stalling on her so I sold it. I also replaced the knock sensor during that time. So lots of repairs but honestly at 287,000 miles the thing still ran reasonable. No major component failure...engine used oil, but tranny was fine. Original alternator and starter. No AC issues ever. Probably went through five mufflers and countless bushings that I didn't even mention. Plus two timing belts (but I do all repairs myself), I'd love to know what all this would have cost me if I had someone else do it.

But Homda has/had serious transmission problems and now ring issues/oil consumption. The air bag recall hasn't won them any friends either (big inconvenience waiting for parts to come in). But what's great with Honda is that the parts are so cheap and readily available. They're relatively easy to work on. Information is easy to come by. There is no magic formula. But still...they are not what they used to be.

vfr700f2

A dealer got together with a statistician and did a study of reliability to figure out which cars are least likely to cause him hassles. Here's an article that includes a link to the whole study. https://www.yahoo.com/news/bp/car-de...181842236.html

I want a reliable car, which is one reason I like the Lexus, but I also like a simple, cheap car. In the unlikely event the Lexus breaks, there may be expensive, hard-to-get or hard-to-replace parts involved. A Toyota pickup truck of the same age, for example, is less likely to be expensive or complex, and sometimes I feel like I want one of those instead.

Doublebase

Excellent article, what I took most away from it is that the LS is driven the most (out of high end vehicles). And that the 3.5 Toyota V6 and drive train is very reliable - as they listed the ES350, Camry and Avalon as a top vehicle on that list. Not surprised that Honda has taken a hit along with Nissan.

Can't argue with that list, they even mentioned the GM trucks (super longevity out of the LS motor). And some Ford trucks as well (another high mileage maker).

Johnhav430

I get the distinct feeling having driven the LS for just over 6 mos. now and 8400 miles, that the things that will break are all the over the top luxury things, like tilt/telescope, door actuators, mirror switches, gel in the mirror face (crazy expensive), rear sunshade, stereo amp, headrest motors, blah blah blah, all things that either a 1998 Maxima doesn't have, or it wouldn't break if it did. But none of these are the so-called "mission critical" items, they are the luxury items. The only crippling thing I've seen here in a while was the steering lock failure. Having the old port fuel injection imho is a blessing on a car this age, not gonna need to be touched. So as long as gasoline stays reasonably priced, we're all still in the game. None of the cars on the list surprise me. Reliability can be boring, but not to the pocketbook! It can't be deemed unwise, either. But sometimes, we need to let down our hair, like Rapunzel, hopefully on someone else's dime (car events), or keep a garage queen....

edit: Lexus LS is 100/100? Should we all be taking a bow and patting ourselves on the back? Oddly, Nissan Maxima is 12.9 out of 100?

BradTank

I feel like you can use and abuse statistics anyway you want to make a case.

I agree with parts of that list, but not with others. The fact that they ranked GMC 3rd behind Toyota and Lexus as the "most reliable manufacturer" doesn't make sense to me.

Or that they rated Ford E-series commercial vans #2 in the top 10 of vehicles you can buy.

I don't know all the criteria they used, but something in their ranking makes it skew towards commercial vehicles. Maybe because these vehicles get a crazy amount of mileage put on them, but that doesn't tell the whole story.

We could easily figure out exactly which cars were reliable if the manufacturers released their warranty repair history by model, but they won't ever do that.

Johnhav430

Another interesting thing is there doesn't seem to be any model year distinction.....does an Audi A4 really deserve a 0? That's pretty harsh. But a Maxima at 12.9 is pretty bizarre, something go wrong with the formula? lol

2KHarrier

Bottom line to me is any car that someone has owned for a LONG time, and has not had to spend much money on it would be considered a very reliable car, right? I bought my 2001 GMC Sonoma when it was 6 months old and have 16 years of driving on it. Outside of a couple batteries, 2 sets of tires, brakes, an alternator and a starter, that truck has been one of the most reliable vehicles I've ever owned. Unfortunately the rust is getting the best of it.. Now, someone else may have owned a similar truck and had horrible ownership experience with it. So, really how can reliability be measured outside of looking at warranty repair history as Bradtank stated. Also, I agree with the bias toward commercial vehicles in that list. I will point out that the #1 pick (LX) was the same vehicle that I suggested back in post #8

vfr700f2

Part of the point of their work is to go beyond the 6-7 years Consumer Reports covers, or the 3 years JD Powers useless stuff tells you. So warranty data wouldn't necessarily tell you much.

My own anecdotal experience: my wife wanted an 02 Olds Aurora, back in 05. Bought it with 9K miles. That thing started breaking the day we bought it, and broke something pretty regularly, right up until the warranty ran out. Never broke again. My stepson drive it til 160K and sold it to someone who got plenty more good use out of it.

BradTank

I still think it could be very illuminating.

If a car had to go to the dealer for a repair 15 times while under warranty for one brand/model vs. only 1 time for another brand/model, I could pretty confidently say one car will likely be more reliable than the other for future use beyond the warranty.

The manufacturers absolutely keep track of all of this as it costs them money every time it comes in for a warranty repair. But they will not want to release it for a variety of reasons.

Johnhav430

My godfather has a 2009 Rav4, asked him if it ever had any repairs under warranty, he said no, actually no repairs in 7 years on the road, just maintenance. Then he said that Lexus you got, when it came out, it won every award for reliability. I notice that on this forum, we seem to be quite different than the general car area. I see members have M cars, Lambos, talk about Benzes, etc. Quite interesting that we're only a sub-section and not really representative of the entire forum....we probably place a higher importance on reliability than the general population...I'd be curious to know how many 3rd gen active members, are original owners? No clue, but I would guess a small %....

Doublebase

They specifically mentioned GMC because of it's trucks and SUVs. Both have the reliable 5.3 liter V8 in them...it is a very reliable drivetrain that has become legendary in its reliability/durability. The same for the Ford E vans...simple, basic, reliable drive trains. They are not crowning GM or Ford, just those specific segments of the brand.

BradTank

And Consumer Reports rated the GMC Denali/Chevrolet Tahoe in their Top 10 "Must Unreliable List.
Also in the Top 10 was the Chevrolet Suburban/GMC Yukon XL.

All of them have the LS series V8.

http://www.cheatsheet.com/automobile...tml/?a=viewall

So someone is "wrong" on this. I tend to be on the side that the Big 3 still have major quality problems.

Have you seen the guys website that came up with this ranking system we're discussing? Just sayin', it's not exactly a well funded operation. More like a hobby blog.

So I take it with a grain of salt.

The good news is that Lexus/Toyota come out on top for both, but the other models, the surveys seem to be polar opposites.

Aron9000

Toyota knows how to build a car that lasts. Bought my 1992 SC300 in 2012 with 60k miles on it, its about to roll over to 100k in a few hundred miles. In that time I've had to fix:

1. Clutch hydraulics went out. $200
2. A/C quit blowing cold, recharged and resealed with R134a, $200
3. New brakes, new pads front and rear, resurfaced factory rotors, pumped out OEM brake fluid and replaced with new stuff, $400. Pretty sure those were the factory brakes.
4. Driver's side window regulator, pretty easy fix, did it myself, part was expensive at $90 from Lexus dealer. Fixed the blown front door speakers at the same time to the tune of $100 for new speakers.
5. Power antenna broke, but there's another radio antenna intergrated into the rear defog grid. Still get radio reception in town, but heck I always use Napster/Rhapsody anyways.
6. Rear trunk struts went bad, $30 and did it myself.

Overall this has been the best built, most reliable car I've ever owned. Granted it guzzles premium fuel at about the same rate as my old 1999 Camaro Z28 with the LS1 V8(that car had double the horsepower and was 2 seconds quicker through the quarter mile). That's my only gripe really.

Johnhav430

Even talking to my mom last night comparing here Acura TSX to her Volvo 244 and reliability, she said, "Well my Camry..." meaning nothing got repaired (outside of maintenance) its entire 12 yr. life. imho the paradigm is shifting, where reliability is old school, maybe even when financing was a no-no. Seems like millenials are starting to not want a car, and folks are more concerned with 4G LTE advanced built in hotspots, streaming Pandora, displays, etc. over reliability, esp. given many only keep cars 36 mos. a pop....again I wonder if reliable cars were built somewhere around 1996-2006, and the tipping point was somewhere around 2007-2010.

cerberusM5

My 06 LS430 has been stellar for the 75k miles I have owned it. Only basic maintenance. Plan to keep it for many years.


With that said, what do you think is most reliable compact Sedan for under $15k? I'd like to find a compact beater that will run forever if maintained properly to park in those risky congested parking lots and not worry about dings and dents. Cannot be a Camry or ES, since I find those cars ugly and bland



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