02Legend

iTrader: (3)

The dealer did ask if the plugs were changed at the same time of the timing belt and such. But proceeded to say it was the fuel injector.

02Legend

iTrader: (3)

I was under the impression that my buddies shop had the experience at the time of when he picked up my car. However, after him having it and him needing to have a Toyota specialist come and check the timing, I am now leary. He does stand by his work (techs) and did say to let him know what the dealer finds and we will work something out (monetarily).

Johnhav430

And don't get me wrong, if the job has nothing at all to do with the tick, then I'd let them off the hook....just seems hard to imagine that if the car runs fine, is clear of errors, that they did it, unless of course they cleared any codes they're not telling you about, and the codes are coming back down the road...I don't remember from the thread, did they return the old parts to you? I am sorry but I learned this from my dad and it can't be unlearned. This is an indirect validation that the work was performed. My buddy used to say they can just give you back someone else's old parts so it really doesn't prove anything. But if they do that, it's beyond dishonest so we shouldn't go there...I hear some of those shenanigans goes on with warranty repairs, charge the mfg for work not performed, stock the replacement part. That's why some mfgs require documentation of the old parts being removed (I heard BMW does that with fuel injectors replaced under warranty)....

p.s. good they are willing to work it out--they will likely lose on this job and it's not worth it to do a 3UZFE again....

Gronemus

But did they actually check? Or did the service adviser simply forget to relay that message back to the techs? Of all of the things done to the car it seems to me that the most likely event to cause your tick would be a loose spark plug. Keep us posted. Good luck...

Tom57

Listened to your audio clip again, and it sounds a little like a Toyota/Lexus 2GR-FE (V-6) which is notorious for valve train chatter, especially at start-up.

Agree that the rear spark plug (closest to firewall on passenger side) should be checked. Some members have had trouble removing/replacing that plug so your indie may have too.

The fact that your buddy's shop installed the timing belt backwards is very disconcerting. It sounds like someone with Toyota engine experience didn't actually do the work, but was over-seeing and supervising the work done by a novice. As you are probably aware, the 3UZ-FE is an interference engine (designed so to maximize compression). If the dual OHC timing is off, there is a chance of a piston colliding with valve. One "tooth" off on the passenger side cam may be just enough to cause slight tapping of one or more valves in a cylinder.

02Legend

iTrader: (3)

They did not check the plug(s). They assured me it was the fuel injector.

02Legend

iTrader: (3)

One of the reasons I did not want to do some of the work myself, seeing how that one spark plug can be difficult and the limited amount of time I have.

From what I was told was his tech has done timing belts, just not on a Lexus. I was not told this prior to the work (I should have asked). I was lucky as he was able to pick up my car while I was out on business travel so I did not have to miss work or not have a car. He also stated that upon the first start up they did get a check engine light, cam position sensor advanced (timing advanced?) or something to the like (has me worried). This is where the tech took the belt off and realigned, rechecked and same scenario. Granted I'm finding this out afterwards and when he finally called in a Toyota specialist to make sure it was right.

Johnhav430

I missed that, what does that really mean, with the teeth facing outward? And how would this be even determined....did they button up the motor, then open it again to find the belt is not on correctly?

My old belt does not have any marks on it, so the tech did not mark it like the youtube showed, but if a person did what the youtube shows, that's being extra careful in lining everything up and matching old belt to new, tooth for tooth...

02Legend

iTrader: (3)

He told me that the belt was marked left and right (Toyota) and had the markings on it for timing. After his tech was unable to do it correctly, this is where the Toyota specialist came in and told them the the belt was on backwards and that was causing an issue. Working on vehicles I have always been taught when checking left to right, you do so as from the drive seat, not from the front of the vehicle. I am really thinking a valve issue and hoping it's not.

Johnhav430

That would seem to be a grave error, if a technician is not able to determine the left side of a car or the right, for example, the UK has right hand drive cars....

But, maybe he ignored the markings altogether, not that he doesn't know left and right.....

What the significance is, I don't know having not done the job myself. Meaning, the belt is the belt, it would seem the markings would help to make sure you haven't skipped a tooth? If your right mark is in the correct place, then your left would also, and the crank, that would be my edumacated guess...

What's more puzzling is at what point was this discovered...it's hard to figure out the sequence of events. When they got a code, did they actually open everything back up to look at the belt? Would be a tremendous amount of labor and a waste of coolant...the youtube showed the guy turning everything slowly with plugs removed to make sure things were ok...

Tom57

You're telling us more relevant details ... My original suspicion is becoming (very unfortunately) more likely. The damage to a valve may already be done when they first turned it over with the belt on wrong and the passenger side cams possibly misaligned. Don't get stressed about it while you're on travel. It can be repaired.

02Legend

iTrader: (3)

Yeah, I'm trying to be optimistic, but the more I research and chat on here, it seems like a valve issue.

I really appreciate everyones input and responses. I will update once the car is back at the dealer and it can be confirmed.

Johnhav430

decided to look at my old belt. There are 3 marks, R-CAM, L-CAM, AND CR. Each has an arrow and should point towards the radiator. I'm thinking without these marks, there would be no way to know what tooth to place the belt upon, since it is slack. Now, if it were to be put on backwards, with R and L reversed, but lined up to the center, and CR is lined up as well, I don't think it matters. Meaning the distance between the center of the arrows is still the same....







The oddity, is, that say you did not know these 3 marks exist--if you put the belt on such that Toyota reads properly when you're standing in front of the motor, the belt is on backwards. Would Toyota have even thought of this?

Mine says Toyota 13568-50020, and it looks like this. It says C118 N24 Z5187, THEN 5188, 5189, and ends with 5193. I also found a seam on the belt on the inside, which I did not know existed.

http://image.made-in-china.com/44f3j...568-59095-.jpg

To me, it boils down to if they fired up the motor and something was not right....seems like that's why the guy in the youtube went to the trouble of taking the plugs out, and then turning the motor to see if there were any resistance....hope this gets sorted out...

Tom57

It does matter. There's only one (correct) way to put the timing belt on.

Yes, of course the engineers did. That's why the belt is marked "R-CAM" and "L-CAM." The R-CAM is the passenger side, not the driver's side. That is likely where the error was made by 02Legend's tech.

Johnhav430

I know you have done the job, I have not, so I'm trying to understand. What is the difference, if the marks were lined up, but R and L were reversed? CR should still line up.

it seems like the arrows are there to count the correct number of teeth between each center, because a human cannot possibly count them manually. But if one were to draw their own arrows, say 17 teeth from each Mark, it would seem it doesn't matter. I'm probably missing something, and wondering what it is....

Also, I'm saying Toyota is upside down when the arrows are pointing forward. Intuitively, it should not be that way...if I saw it, I would say shucks is it the wrong way?

edit: what I'm driving at is it is best practice to look at how a part came out. I have seen posts on my other forum where a person cannot determine the correct path for a serpentine belt, and online pics conflict. My wife's air filter is a pita because one torx bolt can be dropped into the engine bay. I realized I did not pay attention to the orientation of the old and I reinstalled the new without thinking about it. So I emailed my cousin, could I have put the filter in upside down? He said impossible, look at the shape, it is not symmetrical, it can only be dropped in one way.....

edit 2. If the number of teeth from the L cam to CR, is inequal to the number of teeth from the R cam to CR, it would absolutely matter which way the belt goes in, provided you are using the marks...hehe I will count them, but not tonight...