Jabberwock

Just a clarification some seem to have missed. I never said the ML system does not sound really good in the LS. It was designed and configured for the LS so it had better sound pretty darn special. But it was also designed and configured to be relatively low cost. This is not some evil conspiracy, it is just what modern manufactures of any consumer product do - they design to a goal of very good performance at lowest possible cost.

So I accept that ML system sound greats in the LS - no debate there. What I assert is that the modern ML car audio components are far from super high quality, especially the speakers. Anyone examining the speakers can see they are relatively low manufacture cost speakers (like all car makers (even high end) use for "hidden" components). But that does not mean the system as a whole has anything but excellent sound performance in the LS, especially when the speakers are new.

And btw the actually person - Mark Levinson hasn't worked for or owned the brand name and company Mark Levinson since the 70s - He has owned and been involved in several other companies - and his latest venture is a company called Red Rose systems. A company called Madrigal has owned the ML brand since the late 70s for home audio systems and they still build very high end gear for Home audio under that name. The ML car audio name and gear is owned and built by a completely different company called Harman, primarily Asia based manufacturer of consumer grade audio, Harman owns a whole bunch of old line audio brands that it markets and sells its gear under.

So what I assert is that the LS430 ML system would sound even mo' better (and last a lot longer at top performance) if Lexus had spent some extra $ to get Harmon to spec in some actual higher quality speakers. But they did not do that, and they never will - instead they spend the extra $ on marketing to brand and use an old line shell company and esoteric name like ML. Brochures, press releases, and trade rag reviews and interviews with Lexus and ML execs and reps are nothing but bald faced marketing BS - do the research and educate yourselves. In the end Toyota/Lexus is going to operate just like any other large corporation. That doesn't make them bad, its just modern day business practices at even the best companies.

motohide

Exactly, that's what the old Nakamichi logo was as well.
Yes, its leaps and bounds over the 4 channel radios of the 80's, but Nakamichi name was bought and sold, and by the mid 90's it was more famous as Lexus OEM audio system, than the small studio grade tape player maker, who was defunct and making desktop home mini-compo by the time Lexus equipped it in cars with the name.

Gone were the technical products of the 80's like the Nakamichi Dragon player which was once among the highest accolade studio cassette tape decks which were manufactured by highest standards in a small factory in Kodaira, Japan.

Jabberwock

Yep and Toyota also stopped using Nakamichi systems in Lexus vehicles in late 90s, instead choosing Mark Levinson when Toyota made a deal with Harman International to provide premium audio systems in its vehicles in 2000. Bob Carter, Lexus general manager, also cited a lack of "resonance" with intended consumers as reasons for the switch. In other words some Lexus marketing exec decided the Mark Levinson brand name had more "pull" than the Nakamichi name with the desired buyer demographic in the US. So Toyota bagged Nakamichi and switch to ML (aka Harman).

Anybody who thinks Lexus made this switch in audio brand names for audio quality reasons... I have a nice bridge to sell you in upstate Wisconsin : )

motohide

That goes for the JBL and Clarion Super Live systems in Japan too for Toyota.

Aside from sonic qualities, at least some of the Nissan and GM "BOSE" systems featured their signature "acoustimass enclusure" in doors and rear decks.
So there was something actually BOSE about it all.
Although, it was still a fancy plastic tuned box with passive crossover and bunch of paper drivers on tiny magnets though...

HiloDB1

iTrader: (3)

Probably EQ'd out the wazoo too knowing Bose.

motohide

My buddy used to say "Of course there's good separation, they equalized "out" all the lower mid-ranges that blends the channels in your ears!!"

LOL

PRSUIT460

iTrader: (3)

The ML system in my 430 is not great at all. I'd say it's the worst part of the car, if I had to pick something. I would love to yank it all out and put in something decent..

MeryLexmas

I thought the Nakamichi system in my old 1991 LS400 sounded great for a factory system. It had great imaging, the sound didn't sound like it was coming from the speakers, but filled the "room" giving a sort of "stage" presence. The balance was great, and me being a Recording/Mix Engineer, it was a good "car test" system. I Can't say anything about the ML system as I have not heard it.

lotus

My 2004 LS430 ML system has gone through a Sub woofer and both front speakers, it was a quality issue in my opinion, as they lasted for 3 years and have all been dying in sequence since passing 5 years, maybe that is just the time they should fail, I don't know.
But I will mention that I was happy with the system until a friend driving my car, started it and didn't know there was a delay with the volume **** as the stereo takes a moment to become fully responsive and turned it ALL the way up.

Though it was only for a second, it has sounded like crap since then. The speakers generally sound fine, but the mid/low bass has all but vanished. The sub is working fine and in certain ranges it comes to life, but mostly stays quiet now.

Is it possible something in the amp was damaged during the blast?

I have heard the ML system in a couple different LS430's using the same media and track. Oddly, they all exhibit a different depth of bass and clarity. I leveled the EQ and Balance/Fader before I sampled them.

Like the other poster pointed out, its too expensive to just replace the parts and I am also out of warranty.

Mind you I know nothing about audio systems, so be gentle.

kmaracing

I was running into the same situation. As soon as I got the car the sub woofer broke, then a the front speakers were falling apart. Then the tape deck was not working and it seems like everything in the stereo was starting to break. Then someone told me the ML systems were all matched and to purchase the oem replacement parts. After looking at the subs and the front speaker there was no way in hell I was going to purchase those crappy looking ML speakers for those prices.

After thinking about it, I wanted my I-pod and video work in the car. Luckily the Beat Sonic kit allowed us to put a aftermarket head unit what played my Ipod and DVDs and it works with the factory nav and a/c controls. The next step is to replace the speakers and amps before anymore of those ML parts break. So JT Audio is going to replace the rest of the stereo system next month. The guys at JT Audio made a suggestion with running Tru Tech. amps, Hybrid Audio speakers and Image Dynamics subs. From what JT said these companies use high quality parts when they manufacture their products and pay attention to details. So the plan next month is to have a high quality stereo system that plays my Ipod and have it work with the fully functioning oem navigation and climate controls. Hopefully JT will post some pics of the install. My *** is going to be out of town! lol.

leibow11

Wow, some of you guys are really drinking the cool aid and spending way too much time discussing technical details.

What matters here is one thing. How does the sound system sound to the listener. I have a 96 LS400 that my 18 year old son drives with a NAK. I drive an LS430 with ML. I hate the ML but still love the NAK. I think it sounds so much better. My car, my ears, my opinion. Isn't that what really counts? You guys that are trying to tell us how smart you are by rattling off technical details. Who cares what the technical details are? I care what it sounds like. And to each his own.

KaiserSea1

I agree. I have both the LS and SC 430, the SC has an upgraded ML. Both sound subpar IMO

kmaracing

there is another issue. these cars are getting older and things breaking in the ml systems. the sub woofer, the front mids and part of the head unit broke in my ml system. replacing these parts with ml replacement parts are expensive and not worth the money in my opinion. people are just paying for the name.

Oldguys

Wow. Didn't want to start a battle over sound quality. I just hate the navigation system. However, I did add a VAIS MultimedialinQ which greatly enhanced the sound of the overall system. Clearly the radio signal was crappy and the system just exacerbated the problem. Not the fault of ML. Garbage in = Garbage out. Of course if you have crappy recordings on the flash drive it will highlight that, but if the recordings are good the sound is quite nice. My 2006 has gone 104,000 miles without any problems so I can't complain. Hope it goes another 100K.

Bdragon007

That's a nice and clean install, did you custom made the face kit for the head unit or is that some thing we can buy? Thanks!