Jabberwock

Sojah - no prob at all - and btw I wasn't calling foul, I was just suggesting folks chill in responding too personally to a person's posts as it is just written opinions on this board, and everyone has the right the share their opinion even when we strongly disagree. If someone doesn't like an opinion they can stop reading and just skip that post. I don't get bent about what folks say on forums like this.


This board is very cool and useful so I'd like to encourage positive respect and calm appreciation for others points of view - if at all possible.

In my case in this specific issue I do have a closer connection than avg, but I hope I did not make it too melodramatic, so just wanted to post that even one death is too many if caused by a mechanical avoidable defect, any defect that is this dangerous is something to be taken deadly serious (no pun intended).

But I do agree with the excellent point to maintain perspective as there are many other more serious car and cultural related issues that cause fatalities - besides just plain old fashioned stupidity : )

AlexusAnja

I'm either on the wrong thread, or the moderators have taken some posts away. Anyway, my 2c on the subject is that no one should ever die in an automobile (or for that matter, boat, house, bike, etc.) because of the fault of design or negligence of a manufacturer. PERIOD !

With this said, I'm not saying that Toyota as a single entity is totally at fault either (not right now atleast). To be honest, I don't think Toyota or anyone else has any real concrete idea of that "ONE THING" that is wrong with the vehicle and that doing "this or that" will correct it. With the 15 deaths, all very sad for sure, that is unfortunately (or fortunate depending on how you look at it) a very small sampling because of the volume of recalled vehicles that are affected and isolating the root cause right now if probably hit and miss. They've gone from replacing (cutting) the gas pedal, to now replacing some module???, to putting some metal flange or something on vehicles already on the road.

Now, I don't know how many were caused by the bad floor mats, how many were caused by actual stuck accelerators, or how many were caused by another problem that no one even knows about yet. Whatever the reason, Toyota better get to the bottom of this, stop dragging their feet, and get to fixing the issue on hand. If they think a lawsuit, or directing blame at the pedal assembly manufacturer (CTS) will shift blame from them, they are dead wrong. The badge on that vehicle is Toyota, not CTS. I think for the health and sanity of the consumer, Toyota better go full force and just replace what they "suspect" may be the cause and get it done fast.

I can definitely see this problem being the little rock that brings goliath down. Just like all of the almost endless recall and quality issues of GM back in the 80s. Once a customer jumps ship, and the "other guy's" product is just as good, if not better than yours, then it's going to take a very long and hard time to get that customer back, if ever. Just look at all the customers that jumped to Japanese when the domestics were rolling out mailbox on wheels, they never went back, or have gone back in very minimal numbers. This recall could be the spark that makes those converts jump back to domestic and I think Ford will have the most to gain of the domestics. With Honda being the Japanese gainer if the Toyota customer stays Japanese.

I think Toyota PR is smart enough, just like with the LS400 rollout when they discovered some issues, they immediately requested vehicles to be brought back for fixes. Whatever happens from here on, Toyota is going to have a lot of PR spinning to do to get them back to that high level of "esteem" that consumers held them at.

sojah

iTrader: (1)

heavy is the head that wears the crown,, toyota in this regard ^ ^ ^

a lot of responsibility comes with being #1 as well and i think they are doing the right thing thus far unless some new info comes out and there are new variables to work into the equation.

LS430inDE.

ARE U FREGGIN KIDDING ME? I think you are 100% completely wrong with your thoughts.

How are DEATHS (documented by the media), via FAULTY automobiles, a media gone mad, as you say? Would you not agree it's a HUGE STORY??? And how do you mention drunk driving when talking about this subject? Drunk driving is a personal JUDGEMENT mistake. Nothing defective except the drunk drivers BRAIN. You continue to say people aren't alarmed by deaths from drunk driving? How often do YOU drive DRUNK? Why NOT?

On topic---whether Toyota is responsible for 2 deaths, 22 deaths, or 200 deaths......the FACT is the CAR CAUSED FATALITIES by BEING DEFECTIVE. A car is not supposed to be defective----TO THE TUNE OF CAUSING DEATH! How can anyone dispute that?

What would happen if someone was driving their LS, and their right rear air strut failed, causing the LS430 to RUN HEAD-ON, into opposing traffic???

Would people would say...EH---they should have just gripped the steering wheel tighter! Or would people say...EH---Duh, come on, it was their own fault since they the driver wasn't holding the wheel with both hands at the 9 and 3 positions! Or would people say....Oh well...the air strut falling off while moving is JUST considered to be a part of LIFE?

You said there were ONLY 15 deaths by the defective cars? LOL! What does THAT mean?

In life, according to Jayclapp, what would be YOUR threshold for concern for this type of catastrophe? 25 deaths? 35 deaths? 200? Curious your answer as YOU cited a specific #? What is your #?.....

Actually, your post includes a lot of distractions and distortions, I believe, in an attempt to bolster your opinion..none of which are ON TOPIC: Toyota's fatal defects and it's relation to the LS430.

LS430inDE.

I think this is ingenious!... http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1

DNC

If anyone leaves the Toyota camp for a GM product it will be a move based on money. I could never imagine leaving Toyota for a demostic brand. I cannot think of a demostic car I would walk across the street for.

jayclapp

IMO, the news medial will sensationalize any issue (either relevant or irrelevant) in order to bolster their ratings and gain an audience. They don't car is it's useful or truthful. Three days ago CNN Rick Sanchez tried to explain how a faulty Toyota gas pedal assembly worked. He held the assembly upside down! He didn't have a clue what he was saying and looked like an utter fool. But this is just the news media trying to help the public understand what a terrible problem this is. LOL.

Toyota knows a lot more about this problem that the news media wants to reveal. Today they revealed that Toyota is working with CTS (the American company that manufactured the faulty parts) to ramp up production of a replacement assembly. In fact the news media complained that new parts are actually being delivered to the Toyota factory instead of to dealers for replacement on existing customer cars. My point is that Toyota has not taken this issue lightly if they have already re-engineered the part and put it into production.

Further the news media also reported that this Toyota issue may be political in nature to harm Toyota to allow US auto manufacturers to gain sales against Toyota.

I also know that it is possible to find someone on the internet that will say (or has said) whatever you want to hear.

I'll base my judgments on facts and meaningful statistics when possible. We'll see who's right if and when the actual truth comes out.

No offense intended, just my opinion.

Slvr surfr

iTrader: (1)

Well to answer the thread starter, not sure if the LS shares the same drive by wire electronics that the other cars do being as tho the LS is made in japan and supplied with parts from a different company. Also if you look at the design of the LS gas pedal you will see that its alomst impossible for a floor mat to get lodged under it because the bottom is somewhat attached to the floor already and only the top moves. The only way for something to get stuck is for it to go around and behind the pedal and if that happends my friends then they would have other serious issues to deal with than pedal design. Just my two cents!

caddyowner

An interesting article from today's Detroit Free Press, where anti-Toyota articles sell papers:

http://www.freep.com/article/2010013...ank-on-problem

sojah

iTrader: (1)

^ ^ ^ thanks for the article,, at first i expected it to be completely bashing toyota but didn't find it to read like that, then about 3/4's the way through i just started to get scared to drive any of our 2 vehicles which are a 05 toyota and an 05 lexus. meh...

hey isn't there a war or something going on right now over in like england or switzerland or something... i vaguely remember hearing about some pirates in a swiss bay or something.

sojah

iTrader: (1)

also, i don't really read the rest of this CL sites post i mainly stick to this ls430 section,,

BUT HAVE ANY LEX OWNERS REPORTED ANY ACCELERATION ISSUES PERIOD.??? (any model, any year??)

if so i would like to read about their experiences. cuz the article above reads like it has happened quite a few times, and i am truely thinking that we have a lot of total lex owners on this CL site so i am curious if any have experienced any of these problems in real life? anyone (moderators) care to do some detective work???

encore888

Yes, the issue has been reported--the main model implicated is the ES 350. That's why the floor mat recall and brake override is being added first to the ES 350. There are also threads on the scattered reports of acceleration starting with the ES 330 in the ES forums.

Interestingly, that article caddyowner posted identifies the source of the 2,000-complaint figure, Sean Kane of Safety Research & Strategies, as a "researcher who works with attorneys pursuing cases against Toyota", whereas other news organizations have simply cited him as a "safety expert." In any case, there will continue to be scrutiny on this issue.

jayclapp

There appears to be no problem regarding LS models.

Further, developing news is beginning to show that Toyota has been all over this issue in the past and is currently producing a fix to the tune of 120,000 parts per day. In two months they will have enough parts for all the recalled models.

Here's why this issue is an overblown news media event. If all 15 reported deaths due to unintended acceleration were to have occurred in one year (they actually were spread out over several years), the odds of it happening to you if you drive one of the 6.5 million recalled vehicles would be one in 441,000.

If you live in the U.S., your chance of being struck by lightning in the past year would have been one in 500,000.

Still scared to drive your Toyota? LOL.

sojah

iTrader: (1)

only on the dc beltway...

unintended acceleration seems to be affecting about 65% of the drivers on the dc (495) beltway,, ohh wait maybe it was intended

AlexusAnja

I haven't driven domestics since '95 and didn't really think that I'd ever leave imported, but with adjustment downwards of Japanese makes through the last few generations of vehicles and probably the same upwards trend of the domestics, I can see myself driving quite a few domestics in various categories...

Compact - I'd still take a Civic over anything, best overall package to me
Midsized - really would not know what to get, but Camry and Accord would not be my choices, I'd probably look closely at a Ford Fusion.
SUV - GMC Acadia I would take a good look at because of the 3rd row
Sport Sedan - CTS without a second thought. IS too small, BMW/MB offerings not interested in.

Anyway, I've gone way off topic... sorry...