DROD2045

Well, Im pissed im typing this again since my post was deleted but here goes:

It might not be deleted this time around because of this statement, the LS is the better car of the two. But I like the Q more.

The quoted post above had some incorrect info, so all i tried to do was correct it.

a difference of 8.1hp per liter is a huge difference. Its not 8.1hp more total, its per liter. However, the Qs drivetain needs to take advantage of this much more than it is. The 03 gear change might help some.

CD clocked the Q at 0-60 in 6 seconds flat. CD was the only mag to test a production version Q, not a pre pro car. THis time of 6 flat is, obviously, faster than the LS.

Dead last in every multi car comparo? RT- Q vs LS- the Q beat the LS- one on one. CD vs the GS, 5, A6, S type and Seville, it was 4th (respectable since the Q isnt directly targeting such sport sedans). MT- it wasnt last. The DTS got last. Not sure where the Q was. So not once did it finish last.


The Q maxes out at 60k, not 70k. In this class, you need all attributes to succeed. The Q needs to up the ante more in both lluxury and sport to truly standout. This is why the S and 7 are successful. Even the LS has a dose of sport.

The M45s dash is nearly identical to the Qs dash but its not. The Qs dash is much softer and luxurious feeling (than the Ms). Much better quality.

The 03 changes will not decrese the Qs value. These chnges are improving the Q so its value will not continue to decrease.

People do care about Infiniti. There are enthusiasts websites out there. The Q is a great car for a great value in a field of many. Although it may not sell well, that doesnt mean its not a successful vehicle in itself (just the sales are successful). The Q, G35 and G35c clearly show that Infiniti can make very good cars. The M45 is here for now only to make a priceing bridge between the Q and G. itll be redone in a few years. The FX45/35 is also very promising. Mags have taken notice, as have I. Why people ere dont is beyond me. You may not care, but you may also be worried (which you shouldnt). Competition is great IMO.

LexFather

Infiniti does not understand yet they have no brand and for a 60k car you HAVE to have a BRAND for buyers to buy or even consider you car. Lexus has less brand than Benz or BMW, but it has 3rd. Not sure if the luxury market can support any more (i.e. Audi, Jaguar, Infiniti).

wwest

IMMHO the only thing likely to be wrong with the Q45 is the "mental holdover" from the dislike of the early models.

A really BAD start, that.

SharpLS-96

Lexus is #1 thats all that counts, not 3rd!

LOTC

Q45 or LS400 or better yet infiniti or Lexus its not a tuff choice just look around on the roads. They both are good cars,but hey the sales per year dont lie.

jimxo

The LS is a better car but the Q45 is a better value.

At age 35 I can feel ok driving a Q45, I cant say pulling up in a LS430 is going to look right in front of my pears. The Q appeals to a younger segment of the luxury car market.

Having the same car as my Grand parents bothers me.

DROD2045

Caddy and Lincoln sell more than Lexus. To get brand, you need a vehicle that can get it for you. You will not get recogniton if you dont have a car to compete with. Theres plenty of room, each luxury brand is successful. TO be successful doesnt mean selling in the highest quantities. Being successful is making good product, profiting and making more good product for years down the road. Right now, Infiniti is being successful due to the g35. Luxury car sales keep going up every month. It is the new trend to buy a car with luxury status, or nameplate. Infinitis sales continue to rise as well. So clearly, there is room. If sales was the only indication of success, than RR, Bentley, Ferrari, etc... would not be successful.

ST430

Ummm...are you a part of the Benzo / Bimmer snob crowd or something? If you base your decisions on how you look around your supposed friends, you have issues to resolve.

But back on topic. The Q45 is synonymous with second rate and has a bullfrog styling about it. Although the LS430 is rather sedate (i look C&D's apt term "fine vanilla"), I took it over a comparable GS430 (which most ppl in my 26 year old demographic would do) based on the premise of: 1) outstanding quality 2) availability of a sports edition 3) lexus tradtiion 4) classic saloon styling. Yes, most ppl that drive my car are probably 2X-3X my age, but it makes it all the more fun to trip out ppl and keep them guessing. As you said yourself, the LS430 is the better car, that's enough for most ppl, period.

DROD2045

if the LS was more stylish, I think it would be the best car in the class. To me, the front struck me as too tall, much like a truck. Although in dark blue it is still classy. Persoanlity is big to me. I appreciate its interior greatly, but not the exterior. But thats just my 2 cents.
edit: do you have inteiror photos of your car?

Toog4me

Sharp- you do realize that the survey you posted is from 2000, right? Is there one for 2001???

And as far as service goes, we got beat by Saturn, so that alone should say somethin about the survey.

LexFather

No Lexus is the top selling luxury brand. And who considers Lincoln and Caddy Luxury anyway? They at least do have a Brand of attracting older buyers, which they are GREAT at, yet they are ignoring these people to compete with BMW by making "sporty" cars recently.

G35 selling 3,000 cars a month is okay but even Acura sells 5k TLs a month. Lexus is selling 7,000 ES 300s a month.

Nothing seriously wrong with the Q (outside of styling) but for that kinda money, people want a car that says they have ARRIVED and the Q does not do that.

A SKYLINE yes, Q45 no.

Sad thing is I LOVED the grilless 1st gen Q45, LOVED IT! When they came out with the 2nd gen Q41 (don't forget it was a 4.1 liter) I was puzzled. Now I am even more so.

Toog4me

Sick,
you like the 91' more than the 95? I hate the look of no-grill. The 95's were an option for me, but I couldnt get such an old car.


The amount of cars a dealer sells has nothing to do with wether the car is good or not. The IS sells more than the G35, but that does not mean its a better car.


Cadillac IS a luxury car. But like you said, its luxury for older people. They are not marketing the younger consumer, and they have not even really tried to step into making a sportier car. They tried with the CTS, but like Bob Lutz said, their target age is above 35.

And lets not forget the original question:
Which is better in your opinion? and why? Is it b/c of loyaty, quality, prestige, etc.?

There is no wrong answer. There is no right answer. It is pure opinion!!!

SharpLS-96

Yeah I realized that. Saturn had us by 2 in August 2000
Saturn scored 143 out of a maximum 182 points in J.D. Power's Sales Satisfaction Index, while Cadillac and Lexus each scored 141 points. Saturn was the only small-car seller in the top 10.

Here's how the above-average brands scored out of a maximum of 182 points.


1. Saturn, 143


2. Cadillac, 141


3. Lexus, 141


4. Infiniti, 139


5. Buick, 138


6. Land Rover, 138


7. Mercedes-Benz, 138


8. Volvo, 138


9. Jaguar, 137


10. Oldsmobile, 137


11. BMW, 134


12. Lincoln, 134


13. Porsche, 134


14. Saab, 134


15. Chrysler, 133


16. GMC, 131


17. Mercury, 129


18. Jeep, 128


19. Pontiac, 127


20. Audi, 126


21. Chevrolet, 126


22. Acura, 125


23. Plymouth, 125


INDUSTRY AVG. 124


Below average, in alphabetical order: Daewoo, Dodge, Ford, Honda, Hyundai, Isuzu, Kia, Mazda, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Subaru, Suzuki, Toyota, Volkswagen.

rsg

Have you ever sat in a Caddy??? Just because it is American doesn't mean it can't be a luxury car. My old Caddy is more comfortable than my Lexus.

DROD2045

I thought Lexus was the best selling import last year? Maybe not, not sure. Year to date sales, MB, BMW and Caddy are in the front.

G35 is targeting TL and ES. THe IS actually sells les than the G35, so what does that mean about the IS? To me, nothing. It just means it sells less. That doesnt make it any less of a car in my eyes. Sales do NOT indicate success. A company can still be profitable with a car even if it sells less than a competitor.

The CTS sells more than the G35 (by about 100-300). Do you think the CTS is better than the G35? Or IS? The 325 and 330 together only marginaly outsell the g35. Thats combined...


But like someone said, the topic is the Q and LS, which would you choose. My choice was the Q. My reason, style and to be different. I would take both cars in a heartbeat.