seanl

After a 2 year absence, I'm back on Club Lexus....

I sold my '97 LS400 right before moving overseas and when I got back I bought a new 2008 BMW 335i Sedan--which is an amazing sports sedan. However, now that I'm living downtown and commuting all over the Bay Area for work, I feel the need for another LS400 given that my 335 is a manual trans. sport package car that has very stiff 18" RFTs. Ride quality ain't it's strong point.

I have tried to find a clean '98-'00 LS but after a few months of looking at junky high mileage 'used up' cars I finally gave up. I settled on a very clean 100K mile 2 owner '97 LS400 Coach Edition, same color as my old LS. The only problem (which is really an opportunity) is that the original owner ditched the '98-'00 wheels at time of purchase in favor of some hideous chrome '97 stockers. They're horrible. Since the car actually needs tires, it's the perfect time to upgrade.

Given that I live downtown, I was thinking about just going with the LS430 16incher (ones that came on the '00 Plat Ed.). But then I see there's also 17s and 18s from the LS430.

While the 18" sport wheels look great, I'm really concerned about ride quality and the more vulnerable shorter sidewalls. Would switching to 17s with 225/55s really impact ride quality and have *that* much shorter of a sidewall?
Would the 17s be a good compromise?

I'd like to hear any thoughts and impressions from those of you who have done the upgrade to 17s or 18. I'm not interested in going with a 19 or 20" VIP treatment no matter how good it looks. It's all about the ride quality for me with this car.

Thanks

BTW, if you have some nice OEM wheels for sale hit me with a PM, I'm lookin!

PureDrifter

iTrader: (10)

245/45-18 on a factory 18" wheel at stock height with GOOD tires
willl feel just fine.

Schnitz

iTrader: (5)

I think most overlook the seats in regards to ride quality. They are just as integral as the suspension and wheels/tires.
All I can say is I noticed very little difference in ride quality going from 16s to 20s with the stock suspension.

BLKonBLK98

if i had to over-generalize i'd say 18" is the breaking point of ride quality (when you can start to feel the difference).

what's way more important than wheel size is tire size as that's what determines the sidewall height and comfort in turn.

for example, you could buy the ls430 18" (which loook great btw) and since they are a 7.5" wide wheel you would be limited to more narrow tires. i'm going to use 245/45-18 since that seems to be the common size for those wheels. if you went aftermarket and bought something like a 19x9.5 and threw on some 275/40-19 you would have nearly identical sidewall and ride quality would be relatively unaffected in turn. of course this also changes overall diameter (i personally couldn't care less, i run small everytime) so that is something to consider.

i'm not trying to talk you into anything, only pointing out that ride quality can not be consistently evaluated by wheel size.

seanl

Thanks Guys, I appreciate your input. I wholeheartedly agree about the seats. I have test driven many cars recently, including the RX300, BMW 740, and Jag XJ8. The LS4's seats *are* extremely comfortable.

Regarding wheel choice, I also agree that sidewall height plays a major role. I'm trying to approach this with an open mind--I do like the hyper silver 18" sport wheels.

But in the end ANYTHING I do will look better than the attached pic (chrome with gold L). I'll also be ditching that 'gold package' immediately for chrome or black pearl.

BLKonBLK98

i actually like that wheel design but i have "unique" taste. stripped down and painted/powdercoted silver with the outer lip polished out would be nice (of course it would cost more than it's worth).

Kansas

I'm always amazed when people say they can't detect differences between ride quality between wheel and tire sizes. I could tell a difference a few days ago when I increased the tire pressures on the standard size 225/60-16 tires on my 00 LS by just 2 psi.

Apparently it is a highly subjective matter. Some people like me are hypersensitive to the differences and others don't feel anything at all.

If you have to increase tire and wheel size, going with the 225/55-17 size used on the LS430 will do the least damage to the ride. Wider 245/45-18 tires put a lot more rubber on the road -- an extra 3/4 inch of tire width can pick up a lot of extra vibrations from pavement irregularity and road debris. It's not just shorter sidewalls that affect the ride quality. Been there, done that.

IMO, the "big wheel" trend is mainly a fashion statement that you can choose to embrace or ignor.

The price differences on these three tire sizes are also something to consider:
225/60-16: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSe...60&diameter=16
225/55-17: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSe...55&diameter=17
245/45-18: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSe...45&diameter=18

Personally, I'd rather pay $115 each for 225/60-16 Michelin Primacy MXV4 than $216 for the 245/45-18 version of the same tire. I'll spend the $404 saved on something else.

seanl

Point taken Jim. I already have a car that wears very expensive runflats so I totally hear you...the LS4 is going to be a cheap(er) daily driver!

BLKonBLK98

i'd have to see proof to buy this. you're talkin about a less than 10% increase in contact area and i'd bet (literally) that the pros at least equalize the cons.

j three

I'm with Schnitz on this one. When I went from 16's to 20's there was hardly any difference. The tire choice is a big factor also. For the 18 inch tires you should check out the Hankook Ventus V12. They came in second in a Michelin PS2 shootout, and the Yokohama S.drive tires I currently have came in 6th. I will be getting the Hankook's next round. Here is the comparison http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...mparison_tests . They are a nice all around tire and good price, especially with the $50 rebate. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....omCompare1=yes

Kansas

I have no idea what kind of "proof" I could give you or which would be acceptable you. I speak from the experiences I had experimenting with tires and wheels in the early/mid 1990's on a previous LS400 and the memorable (Oh so memorable!) and loud complaints from my wife about the harsher ride of the old LS with wider tires.

BLKonBLK98

it would have to be controlled testing, more than i would expect you to present or anybody to perform honestly.

for the record, i am not trying to argue but it goes against what makes sense to me so i would need to see real data (measurments) with controlled variables (identical make/model tires, identical terrain, identical air pressure, identical conditions, etc.) to be swayed.

the complaining of women is hardly a reliable means of measurment (no offense).

fourthmeal

I'd suggest LS430 18" stockers, which look great, fit perfectly (if not a little conservatively), and look like they belong so they won't attract attention.

It just modernizes the car to have attractive larger wheels installed, simple.

I think ride quality starts with the condition of the suspension (bushings and shocks), then the size or wheel / tire assembly, then the actual tire chosen, in that order. If you have air ride, then you could probably go with a rather large jump in tire/wheel sizes and not notice much. The standard suspension without air...maybe 18". In addition to ride quality issues, however, the 18's would net you an increase in steering sharpness and predictability, a major advantage worth quite a lot in the real world.

Kansas

My experience with "plus size" tires mirrors the findings of Consumer Union expressed in the January 2004 Consumer Reports magazine article titled "Plus-Size Tires, When more is less":

"Factory size: Best for those who want well rounded performance under a variety of driving conditions. But factory tires typically compromise cornering grip for all-around versatility."

"Plus-one: Best for those who want better handling and cornering without losing much foul-weather grip. But ride still suffers, and costs for wheels and tires are significant even at this level."

"Plus-two: Best for those who value style and dry-weather grip over all-weather performance. But ride and all-weather grip decline; the risk of damage from potholes and curbs increases."

"Plus-three: Best for warm-weather drivers who want even more style and are willing to pay for it. But you'll need to be especially careful though puddles; potholes or curbs pose added risks."

---------

BLKonBLK98, if you are interested in "controlled testing" and "real data" and like to look at graphs, consider reading the full article quoted above. The tests were conducted with a Honda Accord and a BMW 5-Series.

Plus size may be fine for some people but the OP (selewis) said that "It's all about the ride quality for me with this car."

fourthmeal

<----- not a fan of CR. They tend to miss the forest for the trees, or the trees for the forest (depending on who is writing the article and/or editing it.)

Also, plus sizing dramatically differs in results from vehicle to vehicle, mostly stemming from the suspension setup and OE wheel/tire packaging of course.

There is a solid reason why Lexus upgraded from 15's to 16's, and then from 16's to 17's and 18's as the car has evolved. Aside from getting bigger brakes in there, upgrading wheel sizes gave Lexus a nice increase in overall handling. Looks are important, yes...but handling (and I'm sure the increased margin of safety that comes from improved response ability) seems to be the driving factor here. Accident avoidance from an increased margin of absolute grip as well makes it much easier. When your car actually does what you ask of it, when you ask of it, that is. That alone should help you make a smart decision.

I will say that most aftermarket wheels simply do not have the concept of a completely smooth ride down. I said wheels, not tires, here. Aftermarket wheels (and I'm talking of the typical wheel, not Weds, Work, a forged wheel, etc.) tend to have too much runout and dynamic imbalance in their design, even with today's modern technologies. It doesn't take much to create a mild steering wheel shake or a backseat vibration at 60+ mph...and all the roadforce balancing in the world can't help sometimes.

For that reason, a factory wheel originally made for a different vehicle but perfectly fitting on this vehicle might be the ultimate easy way to get what you want. And don't forget to scrub off the scale on the rotor hubs when you put your wheels on. Those tiny imperfections tend to cause issues too.