RickyGee

Yes, the paint covers the tip, but only for show. It looks like the manufacturer of the tube masked a strip that's about 0.050" down the length of the face, and that's where the light is emitted. The rest of the needle is covered first with a conductive film that appears silverish/copperish, then topcoated with gloss black for a nice look, except for the small band where the outer metal clip clamps the tube, and it stops short of the end with the electrode (left side in the picture).

I have to apologize to fencera about the voltage. You were right and I should have known better than to use an analog VOM to measure it. The analog voltage is about 45vac. When I put my oscilloscope on it, riding on top of this is about 600vac digital pulses at about 240Hz (take this as rough since my O'Scope is very old and not too reliable). That makes more sense.

Knowing that, I jury rigged a chunk of EL wire into the reassembled system and it's actually pretty close. I took a picture, below, without flash and with. I think it may still be worth trying to make a needle and see how it goes. I have foil arriving Tuesday, and will give it a go. -Rick

RickyGee

Here's the picture with flash. There's much more testing to be done, but at present, this appears viable. -Rick

drewkaree

Rick, this is STELLAR information! (to me, anyways!)

I had been looking for black conductive paint, but it was looking like black/dark colors were more expensive than regular old conductive paint, which is apparently commonly available in either silver or copper. I had figured I'd have to go with the silver, and follow up with black as a topcoat. From your description, that's EXACTLY the original procedure Lexus took!

I've got to hammer out some finances and if all goes well, I'm hoping to order 2 different types of paint later this week, one black, and one silver (a pen, in the case of the silver). Doesn't seem like $50 should be holding me up on this, but right now, I can deal with the needle as is, so that rinky-dink amount indeed IS a back-burner priority for me right now.

Thanks for the info though, to me, that's affirmation of my original idea!

RickyGee

After chasing suppliers around the world, I finally found a source for a 2.2mm X 61mm ccfl and ordered one tonight, for $11. Naturally, it's backordered but the wholesaler is in California fairly close to the retailer, so I hope to get it soon. 61mm is about 3/8" shorter, so balance is going to be a bit of a challenge, but I think the tube can be fabbed into a needle (copper foil, black paint, and an electrode can) that will resemble the original very closely. It's a bright, 20,000hr unit and is rigid glass just like the original, so I'm getting excited (but then, I'm easily amused...) -Rick

turbosix

keep us posted rick!

fencera

That's great. Good luck! I've been really busy recently with school, thanks for keeping us posted on how it's coming.

Can't resist but... are these what you picked up?
http://www.mouser.com/Search/Product...boQjWORg%3d%3d

I also found it incredibly frustrating before to locate the little buggers. What I think may make sense is trying out what you get to see if the product type, voltage, width etc are feasible and then try contacting one of the manufacturers directly to see if they have the correct length. Who knows...

Thanks again.

RickyGee

Yeah, that's what I ordered from Mouser, but it's backordered. I talked with a sales rep from JKL, the wholesale importers for these and they only sell in lots of a thousand, so I don't know if Mouser will replenish just to fill my order. On the advice of the rep who was very nice, I placed an order from DigiKey for a 2.6mm X 61mm that they had in stock. It's a tad larger in diameter, but we're talking several thousandths, so I don't think it will be an issue until you get to 3.0mm or so, because of the plastic needle base molded as part of the axle assembly. That's too bad, because they stock 3.0mmX50mm and 3.0mmX75mm, which would do all 4 needles.

fencera

Haha, yeah the fact that we'd need to be ordering in the thousands is why I doubt that this company would be any help...

http://www.j-right.com/html/ccfl_lcd_backlighting.htm

Clearly they could make them, but it'd need to be one hell of a group buy!

Samples anyone?

RickyGee

Well, Digikey was fast and the 2.6X61mm needle arrived today and I fired it up. I think it's too short and too bright, but I attached a couple of pictures, and you can judge for yourself. I contacted Mouser and had them change the backorder from the 2.3X61mm to a 3.0X75mm that they have in stock. It is also rated for a higher voltage and is slightly dimmer in luminescence, so I think it will be a closer match, if I can fit 3.0mm into the needle base. Should be here in a couple of days. In the meantime I'm going to fab a needle from the 61mm to test my fab techniques, but it won't be good enough for my Lexy. Close, but no cigar.

RickyGee

Here's what it looks like illuminated, with black vinyl tape covering the body except for the 0.050" stripe. Pretty bright. -Rick

Neofate

iTrader: (1)

Definitely too bright.. But I like the color. Looks like your on to something.

I do specifically remember people saying be very careful in needle removal and do not 'turn' it at all, as this will mis-calibrate it and it will be off when you turn it back on.

IE: If you coolant gauge is at 40% when you turn it off, the new needle needs to be at the same place. Or your needle that is on there OEM needs to be at that percent.

I think -- I could be wrong. But if you put it back on when the car was at cold engine,.. I would think either the needle would go down properly,.. or having it down already would be ok. I think moving the needles messes up some action in the mechanics, so it is basically a 'don't' touch scenario. Or touch as little as possible.

You are the first I've seen to come close to an inexpensive fix for needles. Keep it up.

**Btw your handwriting is super neat.

LexLS

Ricky, you're doing great, keep up the good work!

I really like the color too, looks like the newer clusters. However, I also agree that it's too bright. Is there a way to add a resister to the circuit so it doesn't get so much power? The needle you bought is really close, is the weight in line with the old one? If they're not the same it might be tough to calibrate the speed and all that.

Neofate

iTrader: (1)

You are on the same 'wavelength' I am LexLS. I was thinking of a resistor inline to drop voltage as well for 'brightness'. It wouldn't be a hard thing to do at all.

However the longer needle being somewhat dimmer would be a better/easier alternative.

I didn't think of weight affecting calibration.. But they are very sensitive. If weight would affect it, I don't really know.

I would think a 'similar' or lighter weight would work just fine, as I'm pretty sure the calibration/mechanism isn't judged by weight. Is something to take into consideration though.

I hope you are successful. Then we have a near complete DIY fix for the entire cluster issue -- Saving people from 200-450$ from others,.. and 1000$+ from the dealer.

Of course none of this is going to put people like Jim Walker out of business because alot, and I mean ALOT of people just aren't capable of doing this kind of work, and more commonly just don't trust themselves and would much rather have a professional do it.

RickyGee

The color is actually a near perfect match; the blueish bloom is from the camera exposure, and really isn't there in person. As for the weight, this is a serious issue. That's why I went with a shorter ccfl first, thinking I could add to it if necessary. As the picture shows, there is a mass balance adjustment screw in the end of the needle cap. Looking at the design of the speedo/tach gages, I don't think there is any other calibration possible or needed. Don't know about the fuel/temp gages, though. The final fix will require a needle that is precisely balanced exactly like the original, or the indicated speed will be off. Definitely have some work to do, and testing to perform. I might need to figure out how to feed a speed signal into the cluster for bench check and adjustment procedure. Anybody ever done that? -Rick

RickyGee

The needle from Mouser arrived today, so now I have 2.3mm EL wire, a 2.6mmX61mm ccfl and a 3.0X75mm ccfl to play with. I have made two needles from the EL wire, and while they will work, they look crappy compared to the original, and are too dim for my taste. I also found the enamel paint won't dry on the EL wire, either brush or spray. But, it's the right diameter and length.

The ccfls are proving to be very interesting; both are too big in diameter to be a direct fit replacement, and are too bright when hooked up with the two end electrodes. But when I ran a copper foil strip down the back and used it instead of the end electrode, it lit up almost perfectly the same as the original.

More work to do, but I'm convinced a replacement needle can be made to replace the original. I may have to breakdown and order the right size from Germany and pay the 30euros price tag for one needle and shipping (ouch!!), but it's the only place in the world with the exact right size still in stock, at least that I can find.

I'll post another picture of the 75mm unit when I can get my camera to focus. Always another project... -Rick