HiPatrick

Thinking of getting rid of my 430. It's sort of clapped out, on coilovers, exhaust etc. now I find my self trying to dodge every imperfection in the roads. Then again it's high'ish mileage, around 186,000 miles, and it is not perfect interior/exterior wise. There's a just a lot of smaller cosmetic blemishes and a noticeable hood panel gap. The car was always in a average condition.

Now, at least in Australia, we can import a Toyota Celsior, which everyone here knows is essentially the LS400. Looking at the 98-00 year models. The listings that I have seen for these are amazing. As low mileage as 25,000 km's (like 16,000 miles?). Exterior and interior look just about flawless on these examples that I have seen. It makes me really want to own one now. In fact, I originally wanted the 400 before I got the 430, and I can't remember as to why I picked the 430 instead at the time.

Has anyone owned both before? Something that I definitely love about the 430, is despite the age, it still has a reverse camera and parking sensors. Something a big body car needs. That will be the only con that I can think of with this transition, if I was to make it happen. I believe the 98-00 models have HID Xenon lights? Which is good, because the halogen set would be a massive downgrade to the 430's headlights. I will also note, I've briefly sat in a 400 once, but I definitely felt like the 430 interior felt more premium because of how much wood-grain comes in the 430. Not overly concerned about that comparison. The Celsior models that I am interested in have the wool seats, which look super modest and cool.

Something I don't really have the much information on is the sound-system in these 98-00 Celsior's? Is it the Nakamichi system? And is it as unreliable as the Mark Levinson in the 430?, I say unreliable because the amplifier is one of the most common things to fail on the 430. I remember ALL of my speaker foams had deteriorated, especially the subwoofer. I had to get a full sound system replacement. How well does the 400/Celsior speakers hold up? I probably would get a headunit installed on a Celsior, one that has a backup camera offered especially.

I plan to NOT do anything to this car that involves making it look different. I want it to be completely stock. Replace whatever suspension components need to be replaced (I think these Celsior's come on air-suspension, argh), do preventative maintenance like timing belt/water pump kit etc.

Losiracer2

you might not get as many creature comforts on the 400 but it is way more reliable. Have no radio issues, factory radio is made by Pioneer (have this in my 99 w/ NAV, Lexus Premium they call it) and Nakamichi is the upgraded system. Just avoid models with the Air suspension and NAV. I have NAV and have had no issues though, i leave my screen off when not in use so it doesn't burn out or how I think those fail from people that have reported issues. 99+ had auto leveling HIDs, so you really want 99-00 models to avoid the first year facelift features that were carried over from 95-97 models like the older style tilt/telescope wheel with the noisy motors vs. ultrasonic motors of 99-00. but i've taken my 97' I had before to 300k before selling and only issue I had was a torque converter lockup solenoid not unlocking when coming to a stop, which I solved but was too late so it caused some wear on the trans prematurely, hence my reason to move into my 99'

400fanboy

My 98 has auto-leveling HID's.

I've never owned a 430. Or driven one yet actually.

It's amazing how well the car will drive if you refresh the suspension bushes. I've had incredible gains from replacing motor\trans mount, lower ball joints and shocks on all 4 corners. I'm about to replace the entire rear end because it's become quite loose with a lot of 2ndary vibrations. Just because the car has a lot of miles doesn't mean it needs to drive like ****. Though if you're slammed on coils... it will never ride properly IMO. It's not a sports car, I personally don't see the point in trying to make it handle like one.



The HID bulbs are perfectly acceptable. It's not quite 2020 modern laser headlight level, but they are totally suitable and you cannot out-drive them. The light throw is reasonably average, with only minimal hot spots. And pretty good side-to-side coverage. And the color is quite nice too - very white with the ever slightest hint of blue. Far better than the full blue HID aftermarket stuff you often see. The LS400 has optional wood trim on the steering wheel and gear shifter, and I think in 99 the gear shifter was made standard. I really like the wood on the wheel. I think it fits the cars period perfectly.

It doesn't really matter how well made speakers are - after 25 years, the cones are tired out and they are not operating nearly as well as they were when they were new. After long enough, anything is a wear item. I'm not familiar with the durability of the solid-state electrical components especially compared to the 430. But anecdotally, both pioneer and Nak systems seem pretty reliable though - we don't see many complains about them. I personally replaced all the speakers and am running a full standalone system in my car. I had multiple dead speakers with the rear door speakers severely degrade and needed to have bluetooth functionality, so an overhaul was needed. I replaced the front speakers first and the difference moving my head throughtout the cabin was unbelievable. I'd move my head into the rear soundstage enviorment with the OG speakers and the quality difference was massive. The dropoff was huge.

​​​​​​​There is a lot more preventative maintenance than timing belt\water pump. At 25+ years, everything is a wear item. It costs probably about $3000 USD just in parts to properly refresh the stock suspension. The difference of which, for me, has always been worth it. I can't wait until I complete my rear-end rebuild.

TominPT

I have owned a 2005 LS430 Modern Luxury trim for the last 5 1/2 years and 30,000 miles and bought a 1998 LS400 six months ago. I love both cars. "05 is at 140,000. '98 is at 148,000.
The Nakamichi sound system in the LS400 is outstanding - I prefer it to the Mark Levinson.
The other downsides to the LS400 - the trunk is significantly smaller, and the headlights are not nearly as bright as the stock headlights in the LS430. The LS400 has (at least in my example) a more boaty feel at low speeds but I have done NOTHING to the suspension - its all original except for PO put on new OEM upper control arms.

If I was in AU and wanted the LS400 experience, I would probably stay away from the Japanese models with air suspension. I would still want an inspection of a 25 year old car even it had very low miles like the JDM cars often have.

On the plus side, the '98 LS400 is significantly more fuel efficient, like 10 percent or so.

as99east

The LS430 is the better car, pound for pound, I think based on my experiences driving both. (In a sense, “duh”, I guess.) Aesthetics are obviously subjective. Far more important than the distinction between 400 and 430 I think is who you are buying from. Have they been on top of maintenance. Both are old cars at this point. I would be extremely wary of any ultra low mileage example, to the extent that means it has original everything - original timing belt, original valve cover gaskets, etc. Any original rubber may be degraded and dry rotted from passage of time. I would take a 150k example almost any day where the owner has been daily driving and compulsive about maintenance vs a car that has been sitting and sitting and then when you start to drive it in earnest, Pandora’s box is opened. Just based on what I’ve seen and experienced as well as heard from others.

FWIW I have a 1995, at some point the original owner replaced the head unit, it’s new enough to have satellite radio but old enough that it can’t connect to new phones via Bluetooth because it has an older version of Bluetooth (but has an Aux input). The sound quality I find to be excellent.

400fanboy

Couldn't agree more. Neglect and sitting without being heat cycled is one of the most damaging things to a car.

I see these amazing cosmetic cars on BAT or C&B; but like... if someone starts trying to drive that 53k mile example with original everything - it's gonna be a fiesta. That was a car which sold recently - lovely black on black spec, cosmetically it was a 10\10. But this thing had been sitting for who knows how long.

https://carsandbids.com/auctions/3Lv...8-lexus-ls-400

>2013, 2011, and 2010 date codes on the tires
>The seller reports that the valve cover gaskets and the power steering hose are seeping.

And then when you visually inspect it, you see the car has green coolant in it. So if someone ****ed up so badly they put the incorrect coolant in a Toyota - they probably also put the incorrect fluid in the power steering system too. So that'll probably be grenading itself shortly.

There also is CONSIDERBALE oil accumulation across the entire side of the engine. It seems more than a seep from valve cover gaskets... and the owner didn't take any good pictures of the engine block (probably for this reason).

Then you realize the suspension is probably all original. Maybe one or two bits and bobs replaced here and there. But they didn't take any close up pictures of the bushings, or, a driving video, or any pictures of the front suspension at all.

Beautiful car cosmetically - but I have a sneaking feeling the car wasn't driven much at all post 2015 or so with those tire date codes, it sat parked for the last 5 years, and then after it was bought by the seller probably started having issues after it was "reactivated".

________

This is just one example you can break down. It'll be fine for the listing but... if you start driving them, yeah, there's gonna be a cascade from a car who spent the last decade mostly parked.

Best practice is to, if it's going to be parked for a long time, put fuel stabilizer in it then start it up and drive it for 15 minutes until everything gets up to full operating temp. Or at the very least, just start it and let it idle until it reaches temp.