Is the LFA the Best Car to Ever Come Out of Japan?
05-20-16, 04:08 PM
#1
Is the LFA the Best Car to Ever Come Out of Japan?
True or False: "... in terms of heart, soul, engineering and raw excitement, the Lexus LFA is the best car Japan has ever produced. No exceptions."
Read the rest on the Club Lexus homepage. >>
05-20-16, 10:03 PM
#2
Lexus Test Driver
"
in terms of heart, soul, engineering and raw excitement, the Lexus LFA is the best car Japan has ever produced. No exceptions."
Sums it all up...
It is the greatest car ever out of Japan. It has been said many times by almost all of the publications like Top Gear (the only Japanese car in the top 50 greatest cars ever), Evo UK (Top 5 greatest cars in the last 25 years), Car magazine, Jeremy Clarkson etc.
I am sure the LFA owners who have owned other exotics concur with these accolades LFA received.
in terms of heart, soul, engineering and raw excitement, the Lexus LFA is the best car Japan has ever produced. No exceptions."
Sums it all up...
It is the greatest car ever out of Japan. It has been said many times by almost all of the publications like Top Gear (the only Japanese car in the top 50 greatest cars ever), Evo UK (Top 5 greatest cars in the last 25 years), Car magazine, Jeremy Clarkson etc.
I am sure the LFA owners who have owned other exotics concur with these accolades LFA received.
Last edited by 05RollaXRS; 05-21-16 at 12:12 PM.
05-20-16, 11:20 PM
#4
Lexus Test Driver
From a pioneer of reliability at exotic car price level and daily drivability (Gordon Murray used NSX as an example for daily drivability for the Mclaren F1), you are right. It is the benchmark when it comes to those two factors are considered. It put Ferrari on notice in those respects and did well in handling against the rivals with less rowdy behavior in terms of oversteer.
However, it is not generally considered that over the LFA (by people who drove both cars in their respective times) mostly from pushing the boundaries perspective in its own time (which is what the article eludes to), NSX did not go much further. Except the aluminum construction of the body, the interior did not look much different than an Acura Vigor of the time, the engine was average at best with nothing cutting edge with a SOHC V6 making 270 HP with specific output of 90 HP/Liter, did not sound great, made little torque and was not particularly very quick and fast even for the early 90s standards.
No wonder they depreciated so badly that a decent NSX could be had at a fraction of its original price since there was very little about the driving experience that made it memorable.
However, it is not generally considered that over the LFA (by people who drove both cars in their respective times) mostly from pushing the boundaries perspective in its own time (which is what the article eludes to), NSX did not go much further. Except the aluminum construction of the body, the interior did not look much different than an Acura Vigor of the time, the engine was average at best with nothing cutting edge with a SOHC V6 making 270 HP with specific output of 90 HP/Liter, did not sound great, made little torque and was not particularly very quick and fast even for the early 90s standards.
No wonder they depreciated so badly that a decent NSX could be had at a fraction of its original price since there was very little about the driving experience that made it memorable.
Last edited by 05RollaXRS; 05-21-16 at 11:11 AM.
05-21-16, 12:55 PM
#6
Lexus Fanatic
The best sports car to come out of Japan is definitely the original NSX. Nothing comes close aside from maybe the original 240Z. The NSX changed the way supercars were made, put all supercar makers on notice and changed what most buyers expect from super cars. It had so many firsts at the time and was so capable without a huge engine or huge price tag and it did it being as reliable and easy to maintain as a common Honda or Acura. To this day the original NSX is very relevant and very sought after, value's are going up, even on higher mileage ones and its design is timeless, it gets better with age.
The 240Z changed the sports car market when it came out too, adding more reliability, less compromises, and really put Japan on the map as makers of fun exciting cars and not just economy cars and sensible sedans. The Miata is pretty close for what it did and its relevance.
I am sorry but the LFA just does not come close, it is just not very relevant, did nothing to change or shakeup the supercar market, it was made in so little numbers and cost so much that most people will never see one on the road or anywhere and some were not sold or are being sold on ebay, a shame. It just kind of came and went without much attention. If you love Lexus then you of course will likely know about and love the LFA but not many people outside of Japanese car enthusiasts even know it exists. When it came out its styling did not look much like the beautiful concept cars, it was heavier then expected, cost much more then expected, and its numbers and performance was not all that special considering the cost of it, now it is just outclassed by so many cars costing so much less. It was pretty disappointing in my opinion. I wish they would have made a couple thousand and charged around 165K-180K for them, then it might have been a much bigger deal and its performance and specs would have been more impressive for the price and it would have done so much more for the Lexus brand and F sport/F cars. Some might say the LFA outperformed the original NSX so it must be better and the best car to come out of Japan but for 375K it should clearly outperform the much older much less expensive NSX and also the Ferrari 458 and McLaren MP4-12 which it did not outperform the Ferrari or McLaren while costing much more. The new NSX outperforms the LFA in pretty much every category, looks better, while costing less then half as much and there will be plenty on the road but even then the original NSX is still the best most relevant car, especially sports car to come out Japan considering what it did to the sports car world, the influence it had, and how it beat Ferrari on its first try.
I would have to say the original Acura Legend, Lexus LS400, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Honda civic, Lexus RX as better in many ways and certainly more significant and relevant then the LFA considering what they did to the automotive landscape and the relevance they have and will have in the future.
The 240Z changed the sports car market when it came out too, adding more reliability, less compromises, and really put Japan on the map as makers of fun exciting cars and not just economy cars and sensible sedans. The Miata is pretty close for what it did and its relevance.
I am sorry but the LFA just does not come close, it is just not very relevant, did nothing to change or shakeup the supercar market, it was made in so little numbers and cost so much that most people will never see one on the road or anywhere and some were not sold or are being sold on ebay, a shame. It just kind of came and went without much attention. If you love Lexus then you of course will likely know about and love the LFA but not many people outside of Japanese car enthusiasts even know it exists. When it came out its styling did not look much like the beautiful concept cars, it was heavier then expected, cost much more then expected, and its numbers and performance was not all that special considering the cost of it, now it is just outclassed by so many cars costing so much less. It was pretty disappointing in my opinion. I wish they would have made a couple thousand and charged around 165K-180K for them, then it might have been a much bigger deal and its performance and specs would have been more impressive for the price and it would have done so much more for the Lexus brand and F sport/F cars. Some might say the LFA outperformed the original NSX so it must be better and the best car to come out of Japan but for 375K it should clearly outperform the much older much less expensive NSX and also the Ferrari 458 and McLaren MP4-12 which it did not outperform the Ferrari or McLaren while costing much more. The new NSX outperforms the LFA in pretty much every category, looks better, while costing less then half as much and there will be plenty on the road but even then the original NSX is still the best most relevant car, especially sports car to come out Japan considering what it did to the sports car world, the influence it had, and how it beat Ferrari on its first try.
I would have to say the original Acura Legend, Lexus LS400, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Honda civic, Lexus RX as better in many ways and certainly more significant and relevant then the LFA considering what they did to the automotive landscape and the relevance they have and will have in the future.
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05-21-16, 02:06 PM
#8
Lexus Test Driver
The best sports car to come out of Japan is definitely the original NSX. Nothing comes close aside from maybe the original 240Z. The NSX changed the way supercars were made, put all supercar makers on notice and changed what most buyers expect from super cars. It had so many firsts at the time and was so capable without a huge engine or huge price tag and it did it being as reliable and easy to maintain as a common Honda or Acura. To this day the original NSX is very relevant and very sought after, value's are going up, even on higher mileage ones and its design is timeless, it gets better with age.
Using your own analogy, adjusted for inflation, NSX cost more than double compared to a Toyota Supra RZ (with smaller ceramic turbos) and the Supra RZ outperformed the NSX around Tsukuba in Best Motoring head to head beating it while costing half as much and being just as reliable, luxurious and smooth. The R32 GTR was also quicker in all respects.
The C4 ZR1 cost less than half of what an NSX did and it was far quicker than the NSX.
The myth was greatly hyped up by Honda fans that no other sports car was reliable in that era, which was clearly false.
Lexus LS400 was the first car that really raised it to new levels when Lexus did the 70 champaign glass demo and gave it the reliability, durability, luxury that no other car could match from Europe.
The 240Z changed the sports car market when it came out too, adding more reliability, less compromises, and really put Japan on the map as makers of fun exciting cars and not just economy cars and sensible sedans. The Miata is pretty close for what it did and its relevance.
I am sorry but the LFA just does not come close, it is just not very relevant, did nothing to change or shakeup the supercar market,
Also, Ralph Guillies who is a Viper chief engineer also cited Lexus LFA as being one of the cars they tested the new Viper against as a benchmark for driving dynamics alongside the Porsche Turbo S.
Many other elements of LFA are still unmatched such as a V10 that has packaging that is smaller than a V6. The piston speeds of LFA at 9500 rpm is also very close to F1 mean piston speeds.
Back in 2010, Lexus LFA V10 was given the best engine of the year beating out 458, GT2 RS, LP570-4, R35, SLS AMG etc, because of the reasons given above. In simple words, they said it is the most exciting engine they had ever driven.
There is simply no other power train from Japan that has accomplished so much in such a short amount of time.
it was made in so little numbers and cost so much that most people will never see one on the road or anywhere and some were not sold or are being sold on ebay, a shame. It just kind of came and went without much attention.
Do you seriously want me to post all of those? Evo magazine just ran a feature 6 months ago in which they gave LFA one of the top 5 greatest cars in the last 25 years. That is a full 3 year after it went out of production.
Sunday Times UK just put a feature out 2 weeks ago and put LFA in the top greatest cars of all times.
Recently, an exotic supercar owner ran a feature of another LFA owner who owns Porsche Carrera GT and various other supercars and he stated his case of how LFA is the best car he has owned.
If you love Lexus then you of course will likely know about and love the LFA but not many people outside of Japanese car enthusiasts even know it exists.
When it came out its styling did not look much like the beautiful concept cars, it was heavier then expected, cost much more then expected, and its numbers and performance was not all that special considering the cost of it, now it is just outclassed by so many cars costing so much less.
Production was finalized late in 2008 and it was first revealed back in 2009. That is more than 7 years ago. Back in 2009, a 0-60 mph in 3.6 seconds, slalom speed of nearly 76 mph and a skidpad of 1.10g and 0-163 mph in 21 seconds was considered one of the top numbers.
LFAs number were all over the place because of traction issues off the line. Simply put, there is no car on this earth that would trap at 124 - 126 mph and run a 4.0 - 4.2 seconds 0-60 mph unless it was struggling off the line to put the power down. Once LFA hooked up, all reviews agreed, it was a rocket and went up to 150 - 160 mph insanely fast doing 60 - 163 mph in only 16.6 seconds.
All without racing slick tires (which nearly all supercars have been wearing for the last several years).
Then there was the 7:14 Nurburgring record in 2011 (for non-racing slick tires supercar), which it still holds and overall it is still one of the top 10 quickest cars ever to have lapped Nurburgring. It was the single greatest accomplishment of the LFA from a numbers stand point.
Some might say the LFA outperformed the original NSX so it must be better and the best car to come out of Japan but for 375K it should clearly outperform the much older much less expensive NSX and also the Ferrari 458 and McLaren MP4-12 which it did not outperform the Ferrari or McLaren while costing much more.
You are calling the NSX the best when a 0-60 mph in 5.5 seconds the greatest car based on its reliability and durability while complete disregarding the LFA's dynamics prowess it showed against its competitor.
So you are not willing to put any weight on how LFA mesmerized anyone who drove the LFA to the point where they simply went bonkers after it.
The Nurburgring lap of 7:14 is one of the highlights it accomplished. Mclaren MP4 was a much newer car that came out 3 - 4 years after LFA, which is considered an eternity in supercar world.
LFA even in a head-to-head with motor trend post the same lap time as a Ferrari 458 Italia did. There were many other tests where LFA was posting the same lap time as Ferrari 458 Italia when 458 Italia had much more stickier tires.
Also, LFA had far more bespoke engineering and far more luxurious equipment in it than almost all of the other exotic cars. That also counts for something.
Even Randy Pobst said, he would have loved to drive the LFA with the Z06 Cup slick tires and his words were "just see what happens" since LFA rear end was not hooking up around Laguna Seca. Still, it post the same lap time as a 458 Italia.
LFA was never built for just numbers, but for driving experience and driving dynamics first.
There are a couple of Mclaren MP4-12C owners on this board who own Lexus LFA as well. Did you ever try reading their reviews? This is a serious question?
The new NSX outperforms the LFA in pretty much every category, looks better, while costing less then half as much and there will be plenty on the road but even then the original NSX is still the best most relevant car, especially sports car to come out Japan considering what it did to the sports car world, the influence it had, and how it beat Ferrari on its first try.
Where did you see the tests? So far there are no test numbers available. No lap times for the car since there is still an embargo on it.
So far all of the reviews of the NSX are ho-hum. It is a rather stale driving experience from what all reviewers are saying. It is too electric and too automated for the driver to feel rewarded with the driving experience.
You criticized LFA's weight (which ranged from 3400 - 3500 lbs wet/fully equipped based on the market and safety equipment regulations), yet NSX is close to 3900 - 4000 lbs wet (about 3800 lbs dry and base) so where is the criticism for the NSX weight?
Even from a numbers stand point, Honda is saying it has a 0-60 mph in 3.0 seconds. That is with 3 electric motors and 2 turbos. Would you not say, an AWD Turbo S from 2012 did a 0-60 mph in 2.6 seconds would be a far more superior car? Where is your argument about the NSX being already outdated and too slow compared to its current competitors?
Again, there are many owners on this board who owned Ferraris, Porsches and Mclarens and if you had been in touch with how LFA is perceived by the people who actually drive the LFA (and also was willing to put some weight into the opinions of those people), you would not make so many statements that show how out of touch you are.
The common running theme you will see time and again, is a car is not immortalized based on how the numbers are, but more on how it sticks to the memory of the driver. It is pretty unanimous that the people who have driven the LFA call it one of the most (if not the most), memorable driving experience in their entire lives.
Last edited by 05RollaXRS; 05-21-16 at 05:28 PM.
05-21-16, 02:23 PM
#9
05-21-16, 09:24 PM
#11
From a pioneer of reliability at exotic car price level and daily drivability (Gordon Murray used NSX as an example for daily drivability for the Mclaren F1), you are right. It is the benchmark when it comes to those two factors are considered. It put Ferrari on notice in those respects and did well in handling against the rivals with less rowdy behavior in terms of oversteer.
However, it is not generally considered that over the LFA (by people who drove both cars in their respective times) mostly from pushing the boundaries perspective in its own time (which is what the article eludes to), NSX did not go much further. Except the aluminum construction of the body, the interior did not look much different than an Acura Vigor of the time, the engine was average at best with nothing cutting edge with a SOHC V6 making 270 HP with specific output of 90 HP/Liter, did not sound great, made little torque and was not particularly very quick and fast even for the early 90s standards.
No wonder they depreciated so badly that a decent NSX could be had at a fraction of its original price since there was very little about the driving experience that made it memorable.
However, it is not generally considered that over the LFA (by people who drove both cars in their respective times) mostly from pushing the boundaries perspective in its own time (which is what the article eludes to), NSX did not go much further. Except the aluminum construction of the body, the interior did not look much different than an Acura Vigor of the time, the engine was average at best with nothing cutting edge with a SOHC V6 making 270 HP with specific output of 90 HP/Liter, did not sound great, made little torque and was not particularly very quick and fast even for the early 90s standards.
No wonder they depreciated so badly that a decent NSX could be had at a fraction of its original price since there was very little about the driving experience that made it memorable.
05-21-16, 11:04 PM
#12
Lexus Fanatic
I know I have had arguments before and questioned your bases against the LFA. I don't want to go back and dig those up again. I was expecting you to come up with something like that.
Using your own analogy, adjusted for inflation, NSX cost more than double compared to a Toyota Supra RZ (with smaller ceramic turbos) and the Supra RZ outperformed the NSX around Tsukuba in Best Motoring head to head beating it while costing half as much and being just as reliable, luxurious and smooth. The R32 GTR was also quicker in all respects.
The C4 ZR1 cost less than half of what an NSX did and it was far quicker than the NSX.
The myth was greatly hyped up by Honda fans that no other sports car was reliable in that era, which was clearly false.
Lexus LS400 was the first car that really raised it to new levels when Lexus did the 70 champaign glass demo and gave it the reliability, durability, luxury that no other car could match from Europe.
Again, from that perspective, the 2000 GT was doing it far before those cars. Yes, it was more expensive as much as a Porsche 911, but reliability and durability back in the 60s. Again, the myth was greatly hyped when it was all being done before.
Yes, it did. Horacio Pagani was publicly seen admitting he tested Lexus LFA for its engine response (which is quicker than any other car in production), the ability to rev so high (9500 rpm is still a production record) and sound, which Audi AG/Lamborghini was also seen testing Lexus LFA with sound equipment.
Also, Ralph Guillies who is a Viper chief engineer also cited Lexus LFA as being one of the cars they tested the new Viper against as a benchmark for driving dynamics alongside the Porsche Turbo S.
Many other elements of LFA are still unmatched such as a V10 that has packaging that is smaller than a V6. The piston speeds of LFA at 9500 rpm is also very close to F1 mean piston speeds.
Back in 2010, Lexus LFA V10 was given the best engine of the year beating out 458, GT2 RS, LP570-4, R35, SLS AMG etc, because of the reasons given above. In simple words, they said it is the most exciting engine they had ever driven.
There is simply no other power train from Japan that has accomplished so much in such a short amount of time.
LOL came and went without much notice? Are you kidding me? Could it be anymore biased? All of the major publications gave it the biggest accolades. Ran many features and still run features on how it is the most exciting car they had ever driven. MT's most viral video to date is actually the LFA vs GTR drag race video from back in 2009. Do you even read the threads that are posted regularly of LFA is still being talked about by magazines especially in Europe?
Do you seriously want me to post all of those? Evo magazine just ran a feature 6 months ago in which they gave LFA one of the top 5 greatest cars in the last 25 years. That is a full 3 year after it went out of production.
Sunday Times UK just put a feature out 2 weeks ago and put LFA in the top greatest cars of all times.
Recently, an exotic supercar owner ran a feature of another LFA owner who owns Porsche Carrera GT and various other supercars and he stated his case of how LFA is the best car he has owned.
Again, that is the most laughable statement. Either you are completely out of touch or you are too biased to give LFA the credit it deserves.
Why now? It has been out of production for 4 years. Last LFA rolled out in Feb 2012. You seriously think LFA should still be outperforming all cars?
Production was finalized late in 2008 and it was first revealed back in 2009. That is more than 7 years ago. Back in 2009, a 0-60 mph in 3.6 seconds, slalom speed of nearly 76 mph and a skidpad of 1.10g and 0-163 mph in 21 seconds was considered one of the top numbers.
LFAs number were all over the place because of traction issues off the line. Simply put, there is no car on this earth that would trap at 124 - 126 mph and run a 4.0 - 4.2 seconds 0-60 mph unless it was struggling off the line to put the power down. Once LFA hooked up, all reviews agreed, it was a rocket and went up to 150 - 160 mph insanely fast doing 60 - 163 mph in only 16.6 seconds.
All without racing slick tires (which nearly all supercars have been wearing for the last several years).
Then there was the 7:14 Nurburgring record in 2011 (for non-racing slick tires supercar), which it still holds and overall it is still one of the top 10 quickest cars ever to have lapped Nurburgring. It was the single greatest accomplishment of the LFA from a numbers stand point.
Lexus LFA was a limited edition carbon fiber car because it was all hand built. It could not have been mass produced like other supercars. Again, it was unchanged from 2009 till 2012 when production ended. With fierce competition in the supercar when cars get updated every year (unlike when NSX existed when there were far fewer), it is typical.
You are calling the NSX the best when a 0-60 mph in 5.5 seconds the greatest car based on its reliability and durability while complete disregarding the LFA's dynamics prowess it showed against its competitor.
So you are not willing to put any weight on how LFA mesmerized anyone who drove the LFA to the point where they simply went bonkers after it.
The Nurburgring lap of 7:14 is one of the highlights it accomplished. Mclaren MP4 was a much newer car that came out 3 - 4 years after LFA, which is considered an eternity in supercar world.
LFA even in a head-to-head with motor trend post the same lap time as a Ferrari 458 Italia did. There were many other tests where LFA was posting the same lap time as Ferrari 458 Italia when 458 Italia had much more stickier tires.
Also, LFA had far more bespoke engineering and far more luxurious equipment in it than almost all of the other exotic cars. That also counts for something.
Even Randy Pobst said, he would have loved to drive the LFA with the Z06 Cup slick tires and his words were "just see what happens" since LFA rear end was not hooking up around Laguna Seca. Still, it post the same lap time as a 458 Italia.
LFA was never built for just numbers, but for driving experience and driving dynamics first.
There are a couple of Mclaren MP4-12C owners on this board who own Lexus LFA as well. Did you ever try reading their reviews? This is a serious question?
I mean, really? NSX came out what? after 7 years since LFA was first put in front of the press? You seriously are comparing a car that came out almost a decade after the other and saying the performance numbers don't stack up?
Where did you see the tests? So far there are no test numbers available. No lap times for the car since there is still an embargo on it.
So far all of the reviews of the NSX are ho-hum. It is a rather stale driving experience from what all reviewers are saying. It is too electric and too automated for the driver to feel rewarded with the driving experience.
You criticized LFA's weight (which ranged from 3400 - 3500 lbs wet/fully equipped based on the market and safety equipment regulations), yet NSX is close to 3900 - 4000 lbs wet (about 3800 lbs dry and base) so where is the criticism for the NSX weight?
Even from a numbers stand point, Honda is saying it has a 0-60 mph in 3.0 seconds. That is with 3 electric motors and 2 turbos. Would you not say, an AWD Turbo S from 2012 did a 0-60 mph in 2.6 seconds would be a far more superior car? Where is your argument about the NSX being already outdated and too slow compared to its current competitors?
Again, there are many owners on this board who owned Ferraris, Porsches and Mclarens and if you had been in touch with how LFA is perceived by the people who actually drive the LFA (and also was willing to put some weight into the opinions of those people), you would not make so many statements that show how out of touch you are.
The common running theme you will see time and again, is a car is not immortalized based on how the numbers are, but more on how it sticks to the memory of the driver. It is pretty unanimous that the people who have driven the LFA call it one of the most (if not the most), memorable driving experience in their entire lives.
Using your own analogy, adjusted for inflation, NSX cost more than double compared to a Toyota Supra RZ (with smaller ceramic turbos) and the Supra RZ outperformed the NSX around Tsukuba in Best Motoring head to head beating it while costing half as much and being just as reliable, luxurious and smooth. The R32 GTR was also quicker in all respects.
The C4 ZR1 cost less than half of what an NSX did and it was far quicker than the NSX.
The myth was greatly hyped up by Honda fans that no other sports car was reliable in that era, which was clearly false.
Lexus LS400 was the first car that really raised it to new levels when Lexus did the 70 champaign glass demo and gave it the reliability, durability, luxury that no other car could match from Europe.
Again, from that perspective, the 2000 GT was doing it far before those cars. Yes, it was more expensive as much as a Porsche 911, but reliability and durability back in the 60s. Again, the myth was greatly hyped when it was all being done before.
Yes, it did. Horacio Pagani was publicly seen admitting he tested Lexus LFA for its engine response (which is quicker than any other car in production), the ability to rev so high (9500 rpm is still a production record) and sound, which Audi AG/Lamborghini was also seen testing Lexus LFA with sound equipment.
Also, Ralph Guillies who is a Viper chief engineer also cited Lexus LFA as being one of the cars they tested the new Viper against as a benchmark for driving dynamics alongside the Porsche Turbo S.
Many other elements of LFA are still unmatched such as a V10 that has packaging that is smaller than a V6. The piston speeds of LFA at 9500 rpm is also very close to F1 mean piston speeds.
Back in 2010, Lexus LFA V10 was given the best engine of the year beating out 458, GT2 RS, LP570-4, R35, SLS AMG etc, because of the reasons given above. In simple words, they said it is the most exciting engine they had ever driven.
There is simply no other power train from Japan that has accomplished so much in such a short amount of time.
LOL came and went without much notice? Are you kidding me? Could it be anymore biased? All of the major publications gave it the biggest accolades. Ran many features and still run features on how it is the most exciting car they had ever driven. MT's most viral video to date is actually the LFA vs GTR drag race video from back in 2009. Do you even read the threads that are posted regularly of LFA is still being talked about by magazines especially in Europe?
Do you seriously want me to post all of those? Evo magazine just ran a feature 6 months ago in which they gave LFA one of the top 5 greatest cars in the last 25 years. That is a full 3 year after it went out of production.
Sunday Times UK just put a feature out 2 weeks ago and put LFA in the top greatest cars of all times.
Recently, an exotic supercar owner ran a feature of another LFA owner who owns Porsche Carrera GT and various other supercars and he stated his case of how LFA is the best car he has owned.
Again, that is the most laughable statement. Either you are completely out of touch or you are too biased to give LFA the credit it deserves.
Why now? It has been out of production for 4 years. Last LFA rolled out in Feb 2012. You seriously think LFA should still be outperforming all cars?
Production was finalized late in 2008 and it was first revealed back in 2009. That is more than 7 years ago. Back in 2009, a 0-60 mph in 3.6 seconds, slalom speed of nearly 76 mph and a skidpad of 1.10g and 0-163 mph in 21 seconds was considered one of the top numbers.
LFAs number were all over the place because of traction issues off the line. Simply put, there is no car on this earth that would trap at 124 - 126 mph and run a 4.0 - 4.2 seconds 0-60 mph unless it was struggling off the line to put the power down. Once LFA hooked up, all reviews agreed, it was a rocket and went up to 150 - 160 mph insanely fast doing 60 - 163 mph in only 16.6 seconds.
All without racing slick tires (which nearly all supercars have been wearing for the last several years).
Then there was the 7:14 Nurburgring record in 2011 (for non-racing slick tires supercar), which it still holds and overall it is still one of the top 10 quickest cars ever to have lapped Nurburgring. It was the single greatest accomplishment of the LFA from a numbers stand point.
Lexus LFA was a limited edition carbon fiber car because it was all hand built. It could not have been mass produced like other supercars. Again, it was unchanged from 2009 till 2012 when production ended. With fierce competition in the supercar when cars get updated every year (unlike when NSX existed when there were far fewer), it is typical.
You are calling the NSX the best when a 0-60 mph in 5.5 seconds the greatest car based on its reliability and durability while complete disregarding the LFA's dynamics prowess it showed against its competitor.
So you are not willing to put any weight on how LFA mesmerized anyone who drove the LFA to the point where they simply went bonkers after it.
The Nurburgring lap of 7:14 is one of the highlights it accomplished. Mclaren MP4 was a much newer car that came out 3 - 4 years after LFA, which is considered an eternity in supercar world.
LFA even in a head-to-head with motor trend post the same lap time as a Ferrari 458 Italia did. There were many other tests where LFA was posting the same lap time as Ferrari 458 Italia when 458 Italia had much more stickier tires.
Also, LFA had far more bespoke engineering and far more luxurious equipment in it than almost all of the other exotic cars. That also counts for something.
Even Randy Pobst said, he would have loved to drive the LFA with the Z06 Cup slick tires and his words were "just see what happens" since LFA rear end was not hooking up around Laguna Seca. Still, it post the same lap time as a 458 Italia.
LFA was never built for just numbers, but for driving experience and driving dynamics first.
There are a couple of Mclaren MP4-12C owners on this board who own Lexus LFA as well. Did you ever try reading their reviews? This is a serious question?
I mean, really? NSX came out what? after 7 years since LFA was first put in front of the press? You seriously are comparing a car that came out almost a decade after the other and saying the performance numbers don't stack up?
Where did you see the tests? So far there are no test numbers available. No lap times for the car since there is still an embargo on it.
So far all of the reviews of the NSX are ho-hum. It is a rather stale driving experience from what all reviewers are saying. It is too electric and too automated for the driver to feel rewarded with the driving experience.
You criticized LFA's weight (which ranged from 3400 - 3500 lbs wet/fully equipped based on the market and safety equipment regulations), yet NSX is close to 3900 - 4000 lbs wet (about 3800 lbs dry and base) so where is the criticism for the NSX weight?
Even from a numbers stand point, Honda is saying it has a 0-60 mph in 3.0 seconds. That is with 3 electric motors and 2 turbos. Would you not say, an AWD Turbo S from 2012 did a 0-60 mph in 2.6 seconds would be a far more superior car? Where is your argument about the NSX being already outdated and too slow compared to its current competitors?
Again, there are many owners on this board who owned Ferraris, Porsches and Mclarens and if you had been in touch with how LFA is perceived by the people who actually drive the LFA (and also was willing to put some weight into the opinions of those people), you would not make so many statements that show how out of touch you are.
The common running theme you will see time and again, is a car is not immortalized based on how the numbers are, but more on how it sticks to the memory of the driver. It is pretty unanimous that the people who have driven the LFA call it one of the most (if not the most), memorable driving experience in their entire lives.
The Supra and Skyline GTR of that era were great cars and I love them but it was totally unique and made huge headlines for a Japanese company to go fully head to head with a mid engined super car against Ferrari back then and beat Ferrari and change the way Ferrari's and supercars were made since, the Supra, GTR, ZR1 simply did not do that and they were not on the level the NSX was when it came to styling, desire, objective, engineering etc. On certain tracks cars with turbo's and awd are going to be faster compared to NA cars, it does not mean
anything, the current GTR can beat most mid engined super cars but those other cars have their merits and position in the automotive landscape.
It was not a myth that Italian, British, some German, and most American sports cars, especially mid engined ones back then were extremely unreliable, overheated, leaked oil/fluids, were trouble prone, had poor build quality, simply did not last when you put serious miles on them, and cost a fortune to maintain and repair, it was all very true. Again the NSX was a mid engined super car designed from the get go to go after Ferrari and different from a 300ZX or Supra.
2000GT was nowhere near as popular as the 240Z and cost much more, 2000GT was almost non existent in the states, the 240Z made the big impact with Japanese sports cars and you can't compared them.
To say NSX's have not held their value is ridiculous, they held their value extremely well, better then just about all Japanese sports cars if not all, the lower priced ones you see in ads are normally pretty beat up, older, modified, very high mileage which means pretty undesirable.
Car mags give a lot of attention to any rare supercar when it comes out for a few weeks to a few months, just because they did it with the LFA, it means nothing.
Never said the LFA should be performing all cars but for its price its performance was a bit off the mark even when it came out and now just 4 years later there are so many other sports cars costing much less that outperform it unlike cars like the F40, F1, 959, EB110, etc that still dominated well after they went out of production.
"Best car" is not just defined by 0-60 numbers(or else the LFA would certainly not win) but you are still only just quoting the first years of the 3.0L NSX when a few years later its engine was enlarged to 3.2L and it was doing 0-60 in 4.5-4.8 seconds which is very impressive for the power it was putting out, the NSX Type R was quicker.
The reviews for the new NSX have not been just "ho hum", this clearly shows your bias and that you did not read all of them, the original test drive with pre production models reviewers complained mostly about the Conti tires and the tuning in the non track modes but even then they were mostly impressed when the summer tires were put on and it was on its most aggressive setting. The later test drives, just about all reviews were very positive with the cars closer tuned for production, yes some young reviewers which I am sure are drifters would prefer a louder engine note similar to a 458 or GT3 but no car sounds like them and it is nothing a exhaust system can't mostly fix and we are just talking about a base NSX and not the Type R or other harder core models to come later. Honda says 3.0 seconds, some tests and estimates are around 2.6-2.9 seconds which is very impressive and competitive with every supercar on the market, even 3 seconds is very impressive for a car that bases around 157K and competitive with the 458/488 and others.
I don't want to obsess over numbers because it is not all about numbers but for the price of the LFA you do have to consider numbers and performance compared to other cars in its price range, I was critical of the LFA's weight considering it was carbon fiber and the price, the LFA is still heavier then the non CF Ferrari 458 and Dodge Viper which had almost the same exact layout, front engine rwd with a V10. The NSX is heavy because of its hybrid powertrain, ditch the batteries/hybrid hardware and it will weigh around the same or less then the LFA.
Well, the response ended up being longer then I wanted, I do like the LFA but I was also disappointed with the end product especially considering the price, again, you would be surprised how much I have defended and praised the LFA when the conversation comes up but I recognize its weakness and that it did not make a very big impact compared to several other Japanese vehicles, even the forum for the LFA on CL, the biggest and best Lexus sight is pretty dead and has been for a while. If Suzuki, Mazda, or any Japanese company came out with a 375K supercar it would be just as impressive as the LFA, likely more, imagine how much nicer the NSX would be if it was priced at 375K and that is kind of the point, price for the performance is a factor. Just because the LFA may not be considered the best car to come from Japan does not take away from it, but no matter how much you may love the LFA you can't deny the NSX had a much much bigger impact and relevance not only for a Japanese company/Japan but for the way it changed sports cars all together and there are so many more reasons why it was the best car/sports car to come from Japan.
05-21-16, 11:36 PM
#13
Lexus Test Driver
reading biased opinions on lexus is expected here and i have no problem with that, but i think you just lost big chunk of credibility with this post. the nsx is nothing in today's standard i will buy that, an accord is faster than it in straight line, but saying by 90s standard the car was not impressive is just pure ignorance.
Yes, I was not particularly a huge fan of the power train. Yet, do remember I gave it full credit as being the pioneer of supercar world in terms of reliability, smoothness, refinement and daily drivability without the quirkiness that the European counterparts exhibited. I also cited how Gordon Murray used it as a benchmark for the development of the McLaren F1 especially in terms of accessibility and daily drivability.
I also praised its handling that it did very well against its rival in handling numbers. I just got a little carried away since I felt other than myself, no one truly on this thread was truly speaking and giving credit for what LFA has accomplished in the last 7 years from media stand point and just people who experience it on the track (whether owners or people who just get a ride).
It was like the same old discussion from 7 years ago when LFA was only measured on the basis of its numbers versus price particularly people who don't speak for people who actually have driven it or own it. It was not until people who drove it started speaking up on how the car drove.
To be honest, I personally think they both are great cars, but they are the best cars in different ways. To me, it is the classic Ray Robertson vs Mohammad Ali case.
Other than myself, you have been a regular on this board and seen all of the things that get posted by me or other people (reviews, owner impressions, videos etc.) so you exactly know what I am talking about.
I will post this video that gives a glimpse of what the LFA highlights were from 2009 - 2012.
Last edited by 05RollaXRS; 05-22-16 at 11:33 AM.
05-21-16, 11:49 PM
#14
Lexus Test Driver
From a pioneer of reliability at exotic car price level and daily drivability (Gordon Murray used NSX as an example for daily drivability for the Mclaren F1), you are right. It is the benchmark when it comes to those two factors are considered. It put Ferrari on notice in those respects and did well in handling against the rivals with less rowdy behavior in terms of oversteer.
However, it is not generally considered that over the LFA (by people who drove both cars in their respective times) mostly from pushing the boundaries perspective in its own time (which is what the article eludes to), NSX did not go much further. Except the aluminum construction of the body, the interior did not look much different than an Acura Vigor of the time, the engine was average at best with nothing cutting edge with a SOHC V6 making 270 HP with specific output of 90 HP/Liter, did not sound great, made little torque and was not particularly very quick and fast even for the early 90s standards.
No wonder they depreciated so badly that a decent NSX could be had at a fraction of its original price since there was very little about the driving experience that made it memorable.
However, it is not generally considered that over the LFA (by people who drove both cars in their respective times) mostly from pushing the boundaries perspective in its own time (which is what the article eludes to), NSX did not go much further. Except the aluminum construction of the body, the interior did not look much different than an Acura Vigor of the time, the engine was average at best with nothing cutting edge with a SOHC V6 making 270 HP with specific output of 90 HP/Liter, did not sound great, made little torque and was not particularly very quick and fast even for the early 90s standards.
No wonder they depreciated so badly that a decent NSX could be had at a fraction of its original price since there was very little about the driving experience that made it memorable.
05-22-16, 06:59 PM
#15
Obviously when we are talking about the BEST car ever to come out of Japan is has to be the LFA hands down. How could you possibly argue that point. Now, if as some have eluded to, which car has had the most impact in relation to the current crop of super cars, sports cars, sedans or luxury sedans at the time, then you have to certainly consider the Toyota 2000 GT, the Datson 240Z, the Acura NSX, the Nissan GTR,the Honda Accord or the Lexus LS400. If you are really asking which is the best then there is no question it is the LFA. Probably no car past or present from any Country delivers the driving emotion that this car elicits. For those who have not driven it you must certainly reserve judgment and acknowledge those who have. When gear heads sell their Ferrari GTO's and keep their LFA' s that pretty much sums it up.