TopGear laptime: Lexus LFA versus Ferrari 599 GTO
01-30-11, 09:46 PM
#1
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
TopGear laptime: Lexus LFA versus Ferrari 599 GTO
Just watched the episode of TopGear with 599 GTO. Click below to watch it.
Apparently, they disliked the 599 GTO a lot and did not feel it was deserving of the GTO namebadge. They said all the electronic nannies do all the work and still you get a lot of understeer. If you disable all the computers, it will spin out very easily.
Despite stripping out everything including sound deadening and even the radio, the performance is not a whole lot better than the 599 GTB with the HGTE track package.
Now to the Stig laptimes:
458 Italia - 1:19.1
599 GTO - 1:19.8
599 GTB (w/ HGTE track pack): 1:21.6
Lexus LFA - 1:22.3 (very wet)
Considering LFA ran a very wet lap, which according to TopGear forced The Stig to go 'gingerly' on the throttle and cost it between 4 - 5 seconds, that means LFA's toughest competition is 458 Italia rather than the 599 GTO or the 599 GTB HGTE??
http://www.streetfire.net/video/top-...-2_2194920.htm
As a background (Lexus LFA vs 599 GTB with HGTE track pack):
"The Lexus feels more athletic than the Ferrari, and its performance is more accessible, more immediately. The engine is remarkable. Austin noted: “They figured out the engine. It’s really strong, and then you hit about 6500 rpm and your eyes get all big as the power hits another level.” The only street-car engine that matches this one for smoothness, ecstatic noise, and power delivery is the 458 Italia’s."
Lexus LFA:
0 - 60 mph: 3.6 seconds
1/4 mile: 11.6 secs@125 mph
Skidpad: 0.98g
599 GTB HGTE
0 - 60 mph: 3.8 seconds
1/4 mile: 11.8 secs@125 mph
Skidpad: 0.93g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvM-i...layer_embedded
Apparently, they disliked the 599 GTO a lot and did not feel it was deserving of the GTO namebadge. They said all the electronic nannies do all the work and still you get a lot of understeer. If you disable all the computers, it will spin out very easily.
Despite stripping out everything including sound deadening and even the radio, the performance is not a whole lot better than the 599 GTB with the HGTE track package.
Now to the Stig laptimes:
458 Italia - 1:19.1
599 GTO - 1:19.8
599 GTB (w/ HGTE track pack): 1:21.6
Lexus LFA - 1:22.3 (very wet)
Considering LFA ran a very wet lap, which according to TopGear forced The Stig to go 'gingerly' on the throttle and cost it between 4 - 5 seconds, that means LFA's toughest competition is 458 Italia rather than the 599 GTO or the 599 GTB HGTE??
http://www.streetfire.net/video/top-...-2_2194920.htm
As a background (Lexus LFA vs 599 GTB with HGTE track pack):
"The Lexus feels more athletic than the Ferrari, and its performance is more accessible, more immediately. The engine is remarkable. Austin noted: “They figured out the engine. It’s really strong, and then you hit about 6500 rpm and your eyes get all big as the power hits another level.” The only street-car engine that matches this one for smoothness, ecstatic noise, and power delivery is the 458 Italia’s."
Lexus LFA:
0 - 60 mph: 3.6 seconds
1/4 mile: 11.6 secs@125 mph
Skidpad: 0.98g
599 GTB HGTE
0 - 60 mph: 3.8 seconds
1/4 mile: 11.8 secs@125 mph
Skidpad: 0.93g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvM-i...layer_embedded
Last edited by 05RollaXRS; 01-30-11 at 10:05 PM.
01-30-11, 11:21 PM
#2
Lexus Champion
I've heard different from Chris Harris, whom I put more trust in than those auto entertainers. They're not enthusiasts to me, Top Gear is a TV show first and automotive information second. I still think they say stupid things on purpose, just to gain viewership. Get people to talk about them. Like saying the GTO isn't drivable. I don't think it should be a GTO though. I think the 599GTO should've been the 599. And the 599 is pretty lame from Ferrari, just like the FF.
01-30-11, 11:22 PM
#3
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Wow, thread title got me excited for a moment. I thought there was a new Top Gear comparison with both the LFA and 599 GTO tested on a dry track 
.
Having watched the video, the 599 GTO seemed to have a surprising amount of body roll in the corners. It doesn't seem like an extremely planted car.
.Having watched the video, the 599 GTO seemed to have a surprising amount of body roll in the corners. It doesn't seem like an extremely planted car.
Last edited by TRDFantasy; 01-30-11 at 11:35 PM.
01-30-11, 11:34 PM
#4
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
To be honest, this is not anything new. When Evo UK did the "car of the year" comparison, Evo UK asked Ferrari to supply both 599 GTO and 458 Italia for the COTY. However, Ferrari flat out refused to supply both cars and insisted they take the 458 Italia and they would send a truck full of technicians that would monitor every little detail during the comparison. They already have the reputation of being a 'Diva' of the supercar world.
Evo UK went back to Ferrari and said they can obtain the 599 GTO from a third party who is willing to give it to them for testing. All they needed was Ferrari's consent to publish data. How did Ferrari respond? They threatened Evo of pulling out all cars from the Evo UK COTY, if they tried to use a third party to get the 599 GTO citing they would not let them use both cars in one comparison.
Case in point, Ferrari insisted they use the 458 Italia and equipped it with the optional Pilot PS2 tires for better grip. Then, offered to send a truckload of technicians to monitor the laps and make sure 458 is performing at its peak. They seem to know it well that 458 Italia is tough around the race track for the 599 GTO to match and they don't want it to be known.
Evo UK went back to Ferrari and said they can obtain the 599 GTO from a third party who is willing to give it to them for testing. All they needed was Ferrari's consent to publish data. How did Ferrari respond? They threatened Evo of pulling out all cars from the Evo UK COTY, if they tried to use a third party to get the 599 GTO citing they would not let them use both cars in one comparison.
Case in point, Ferrari insisted they use the 458 Italia and equipped it with the optional Pilot PS2 tires for better grip. Then, offered to send a truckload of technicians to monitor the laps and make sure 458 is performing at its peak. They seem to know it well that 458 Italia is tough around the race track for the 599 GTO to match and they don't want it to be known.
I've heard different from Chris Harris, whom I put more trust in than those auto entertainers. They're not enthusiasts to me, Top Gear is a TV show first and automotive information second. I still think they say stupid things on purpose, just to gain viewership. Get people to talk about them. Like saying the GTO isn't drivable. I don't think it should be a GTO though. I think the 599GTO should've been the 599. And the 599 is pretty lame from Ferrari, just like the FF.
01-30-11, 11:42 PM
#5
Lexus Champion
I doubt that. They really didn't want to cannibalize another Ferrari, regardless of what it was. The 458 is probably going to be in production for a good while longer. So they wouldn't mind that car being the winner, but at the cost of another Ferrari possibly beating it out, that's not their game. The 599GTO has 670hp, it's not going to lose to the 458. Every driver of the car that has the 458 has praised it as superior. All the Ferrarichat users say it's the better car, the faster car, more visceral. I think what happened was that they want their 458 to be put out there, for show, because they'll keep making it. The GTO on the other hand is already sold out. So there's what reason to have it in a comparo? It's already gone, so there's really nothing to 'advertise' about it, ya know? So the 458 was their 'go to guy'.
01-31-11, 04:12 AM
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For one, most of the testing was done in the wet, which was completely stupid. econdly, there is a new stig, so really, any comparissons would have to be drawn from this new stig driving both cars. He does look pretty quick, but IMO the "old" stig was quicker. That being said, I have no doubt a "Normal" LFA could lay down a 1:18-1:19 time on a dry lap, and I'm pretty sure the n version could hold it's own vs a 599 GTO.
01-31-11, 07:55 AM
#7
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Fixed for you. 
I agree with you guys that definitely TopGear somehow marginalized 599 GTO more than they should have since other reviews have praised it a lot more than that.
The problem is not straight line acceleration. The problem is with the chassis dynamics. Apparently, 599 chassis is too big and since 458 Italia was developed recently, the chassis dynamics are superior to the 599 GTO. That is for sure. 599 chassis was developed way back in 2002 - 2003. Looks like it is prone to understeer quite a lot and that is what the electronics try to correct the most.
Although, 458 Italia also relies on torque vectoring differential that shifts torque side to side, I think Ferrari went too far with the electronics in the 599 GTO to hide the inadequacies of the chassis for such an extreme car.
I agree with you guys that definitely TopGear somehow marginalized 599 GTO more than they should have since other reviews have praised it a lot more than that.The problem is not straight line acceleration. The problem is with the chassis dynamics. Apparently, 599 chassis is too big and since 458 Italia was developed recently, the chassis dynamics are superior to the 599 GTO. That is for sure. 599 chassis was developed way back in 2002 - 2003. Looks like it is prone to understeer quite a lot and that is what the electronics try to correct the most.
Although, 458 Italia also relies on torque vectoring differential that shifts torque side to side, I think Ferrari went too far with the electronics in the 599 GTO to hide the inadequacies of the chassis for such an extreme car.
I doubt that. They really didn't want to cannibalize another Ferrari, regardless of what it was. The 458 is probably going to be in production for a good while longer. So they wouldn't mind that car being the winner, but at the cost of another Ferrari possibly beating it out, that's not their game. The 599GTO has 661 hp, it's not going to lose to the 458. Every driver of the car that has the 458 has praised it as superior. All the Ferrarichat users say it's the better car, the faster car, more visceral. I think what happened was that they want their 458 to be put out there, for show, because they'll keep making it. The GTO on the other hand is already sold out. So there's what reason to have it in a comparo? It's already gone, so there's really nothing to 'advertise' about it, ya know? So the 458 was their 'go to guy'.
Last edited by 05RollaXRS; 01-31-11 at 07:59 AM.
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01-31-11, 03:18 PM
#8
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Also, the GTO was wearing super slick Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tires.
01-31-11, 05:58 PM
#12
Lexus Champion
Typical biased speak from the losers at Top Gear.
The GTO's chassis was stiffened from the original 599. There's nothing wrong with the 599's chassis in the first place. They're pretty lame for that comment. And the tires aren't even the best one's that come with the GTO, they can be had with Michellin Pilot Super Sports, which are brand new, and according to Tire Rack I think, are even better, and some of the best they've tested.
The GTO's chassis was stiffened from the original 599. There's nothing wrong with the 599's chassis in the first place. They're pretty lame for that comment. And the tires aren't even the best one's that come with the GTO, they can be had with Michellin Pilot Super Sports, which are brand new, and according to Tire Rack I think, are even better, and some of the best they've tested.
01-31-11, 06:08 PM
#13
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Actually, my bad. The tires 599 GTO wears are Pilot SS.
Typical biased speak from the losers at Top Gear.
The GTO's chassis was stiffened from the original 599. There's nothing wrong with the 599's chassis in the first place. They're pretty lame for that comment. And the tires aren't even the best one's that come with the GTO, they can be had with Michellin Pilot Super Sports, which are brand new, and according to Tire Rack I think, are even better, and some of the best they've tested.
The GTO's chassis was stiffened from the original 599. There's nothing wrong with the 599's chassis in the first place. They're pretty lame for that comment. And the tires aren't even the best one's that come with the GTO, they can be had with Michellin Pilot Super Sports, which are brand new, and according to Tire Rack I think, are even better, and some of the best they've tested.