Lexus LFA- Discussion, Pictures & News (new colors gloss black, blue, yellow)
12-27-10, 11:17 PM
#3421
Lexus Test Driver
Like I had explained in one of my previous posts that inherently GTR does not have the goods for a great handling supercar. It is all the goods for a GT car.
55% of the weight hangs over the front axle, it weighs nearly 4000 lbs and has a heavy tendency towards understeer. Pretty much all the credit goes to the ATTESSA AWD system that uses extensively torque-vectoring to keep the understeer under control. You can see by the fact that the updated GTR R35.2 has a RWD mode that works only for low speed and in certain emergency cases. On the track, AWD is the only option available. That shows Nissan is well aware of the fact that GTR is nothing without its AWD nanny. Turbo lag is the other thing in GTR.
Though 458 Italia has a rear drive high-tech torque-vectoring differential, it is still a far cry from what the GTR has. Still, the 458 is a midship layout with 62% weight on the back, high-revving naturally aspirated engine with great throttle response etc. Still, compared to GTR, 458 Italia has a very raw and driver oriented experience.
Now funny thing is LFA only has a plain jane good ol' fashioned limited slip differential with no torque-vectoring intelligence, yet it relies extensively on its super-stiff chassis, throttle response, exceptionally tuned suspension and downforce for supreme track experience.
I did some statistics collection on 458 Italia and LFA. LFA consistently always has pulled better skidpad numbers (1.05g peak vs 0.95 g peak), better slalom speeds (74.2 mph vs 73 mph) and that is all without any fancy gizmos like torque-vectoring limited slip differential.
55% of the weight hangs over the front axle, it weighs nearly 4000 lbs and has a heavy tendency towards understeer. Pretty much all the credit goes to the ATTESSA AWD system that uses extensively torque-vectoring to keep the understeer under control. You can see by the fact that the updated GTR R35.2 has a RWD mode that works only for low speed and in certain emergency cases. On the track, AWD is the only option available. That shows Nissan is well aware of the fact that GTR is nothing without its AWD nanny. Turbo lag is the other thing in GTR.
Though 458 Italia has a rear drive high-tech torque-vectoring differential, it is still a far cry from what the GTR has. Still, the 458 is a midship layout with 62% weight on the back, high-revving naturally aspirated engine with great throttle response etc. Still, compared to GTR, 458 Italia has a very raw and driver oriented experience.
Now funny thing is LFA only has a plain jane good ol' fashioned limited slip differential with no torque-vectoring intelligence, yet it relies extensively on its super-stiff chassis, throttle response, exceptionally tuned suspension and downforce for supreme track experience.
I did some statistics collection on 458 Italia and LFA. LFA consistently always has pulled better skidpad numbers (1.05g peak vs 0.95 g peak), better slalom speeds (74.2 mph vs 73 mph) and that is all without any fancy gizmos like torque-vectoring limited slip differential.
Everyone raves about ferrari's electronics, like I said in another post. But when other car makes use it, it's intrusive? Like I pointed out with the GTR. Regardless of how big it is or how much it weighs, it defies logic. 3800lbs isn't supposed to perform the way the GTR is. Ya know? But it just seems ferrari gets a pass on things because it's a ferrari, it performs magically, even though in reality its the computers on board doing the job for you. The same thing was said about the 575 and 550. They make you look like good drivers because of their traction and stability management. The LFA though, it does the job with good old fashion stiffness and aero downforce.
12-28-10, 09:21 AM
#3422
Guest
Posts: n/a
The GTR simply defies physics. It always has since the R32 GTR. The GTR is not about getting the most "feel" its about whooping the others cars *** as fast as possible 
Ferrari seems to really have figured out its e-diff and electronics with the Scuderia. I remember reading how the handling and electronics gave it seemingly AWD grip in a RWD car. The 458 has amazingly topped the Scuderia here. I respect Ferrari, they are THE supercar brand. They pave the way and I can't really "fault" one. Or a Lambo. etc. IF there is no Ferrari, there is no LFA.
The LFA is a raw experience and kind of old school with the older tranny compared to DSG etc. Its clear with the way they designed the weight/mass that what was most important was "feel" (though no manual is offered).
There isn't a one way/right way to these cars. They are all interpretations from these companies. We are so lucky to have them.
Seriously 20 years ago, did ANYONE think Lexus would have anything remotely close to the LFA?
Ferrari seems to really have figured out its e-diff and electronics with the Scuderia. I remember reading how the handling and electronics gave it seemingly AWD grip in a RWD car. The 458 has amazingly topped the Scuderia here. I respect Ferrari, they are THE supercar brand. They pave the way and I can't really "fault" one. Or a Lambo. etc. IF there is no Ferrari, there is no LFA.
The LFA is a raw experience and kind of old school with the older tranny compared to DSG etc. Its clear with the way they designed the weight/mass that what was most important was "feel" (though no manual is offered).
There isn't a one way/right way to these cars. They are all interpretations from these companies. We are so lucky to have them.
Seriously 20 years ago, did ANYONE think Lexus would have anything remotely close to the LFA?
12-28-10, 12:20 PM
#3423
Lexus Test Driver
Now that LFA is in production, I am really really waiting for an American publication (most likely, CarAndDriver, Motortrend or RoadAndTrack) to do this supercomparo among these cars:
- 458 Italia
- Lexus LFA
- SLS AMG
- R8 V10
- Porsche 911 Turbo S (or GT2)
- Nissan GTR R35.2
- Gallardo LP570-4 superleggera (or LP550-2)
I am sure LFA will fair very well against all these cars, if not win it. American publications tend to do more justice to Japanese cars.
- 458 Italia
- Lexus LFA
- SLS AMG
- R8 V10
- Porsche 911 Turbo S (or GT2)
- Nissan GTR R35.2
- Gallardo LP570-4 superleggera (or LP550-2)
I am sure LFA will fair very well against all these cars, if not win it. American publications tend to do more justice to Japanese cars.
The GTR simply defies physics. It always has since the R32 GTR. The GTR is not about getting the most "feel" its about whooping the others cars *** as fast as possible
Ferrari seems to really have figured out its e-diff and electronics with the Scuderia. I remember reading how the handling and electronics gave it seemingly AWD grip in a RWD car. The 458 has amazingly topped the Scuderia here. I respect Ferrari, they are THE supercar brand. They pave the way and I can't really "fault" one. Or a Lambo. etc. IF there is no Ferrari, there is no LFA.
The LFA is a raw experience and kind of old school with the older tranny compared to DSG etc. Its clear with the way they designed the weight/mass that what was most important was "feel" (though no manual is offered).
There isn't a one way/right way to these cars. They are all interpretations from these companies. We are so lucky to have them.
Seriously 20 years ago, did ANYONE think Lexus would have anything remotely close to the LFA?
Ferrari seems to really have figured out its e-diff and electronics with the Scuderia. I remember reading how the handling and electronics gave it seemingly AWD grip in a RWD car. The 458 has amazingly topped the Scuderia here. I respect Ferrari, they are THE supercar brand. They pave the way and I can't really "fault" one. Or a Lambo. etc. IF there is no Ferrari, there is no LFA.
The LFA is a raw experience and kind of old school with the older tranny compared to DSG etc. Its clear with the way they designed the weight/mass that what was most important was "feel" (though no manual is offered).
There isn't a one way/right way to these cars. They are all interpretations from these companies. We are so lucky to have them.
Seriously 20 years ago, did ANYONE think Lexus would have anything remotely close to the LFA?
12-30-10, 01:44 PM
#3424
Moderator: LFA, Clubhouse
Funny thing is I basically told Paul Rohovsky the same thing when I met up with him at SEMA - I'm not convinced cars like the LFA will exist in the rather near future. That's why I went ahead and committed to buying the LFA despite hesitating to buy supercars many times in the past. The LFA is just that good and just that amazing a vehicle and I was not going to pass it up.
Of course, I hope I'm wrong on that fear, but there are so many elements working against the existence of such vehicles. It's not just supercars that might be threatened by a movement away from ICEs or attacks from environmentalists and the green movement, but also a movement within supercar makers to focus on spec/lap times, absurd horsepower wars, etc., and forget about basics like keeping weight down and making cars that are - *gasp* - fun to drive!
Even supercar makers that we thought we could depend on are wavering. I recently caught up with a Ferrari salesman I'd kept in touch with over the years (I nearly bought a 360 Stradale from him). He told me the sales guys were annoyed with Ferrari these days because:
More generally, over the last few generations Ferrari vehicles have steadily gotten heavier, have more and more electronic assists, and have massively increased engine size. Then we have the Ferrari marketing geniuses making up a category to claim a Nürburgring best (which to add insult to injury was trounced by an already-existing car that Zonda had never bothered to release a Nür time for previously). All this leads me to wonder - where is Ferrari really headed? If we couldn't count on Ferrari, who can we count on at all?
That said, I think Porsche still remains relatively committed to putting out driver-oriented and track-oriented cars what with still offering manual transmissions across the board, along with their commitment to the GT3/RS and Cayman lines - although certainly their refusal to release a non-exotic high-output MR and/or purposefully underpowering the Cayman can be validly criticized.
And the GTR is intentionally engineered to do so, notably.
The funny thing is that for the R34, the Amuse Carbon-R made quite a strong case - if not proved outright - that an RWD-only variant of the R34 is superior on the track. That says a lot about the AWD approach for the GTR.
Of course, I hope I'm wrong on that fear, but there are so many elements working against the existence of such vehicles. It's not just supercars that might be threatened by a movement away from ICEs or attacks from environmentalists and the green movement, but also a movement within supercar makers to focus on spec/lap times, absurd horsepower wars, etc., and forget about basics like keeping weight down and making cars that are - *gasp* - fun to drive!
Even supercar makers that we thought we could depend on are wavering. I recently caught up with a Ferrari salesman I'd kept in touch with over the years (I nearly bought a 360 Stradale from him). He told me the sales guys were annoyed with Ferrari these days because:
- Loss of lifelong Ferrari buyers who defected due to no more manual transmissions
- Decision to brand California as a Ferrari (instead of a Maserati as originally intended) has cannibalized 458 sales
- Lack of official Ferrari comment on the lightweight 458 to continue the Stradale/Scuderia line is causing wavering brand loyalty, esp. due to high penetration of the Scuderia
More generally, over the last few generations Ferrari vehicles have steadily gotten heavier, have more and more electronic assists, and have massively increased engine size. Then we have the Ferrari marketing geniuses making up a category to claim a Nürburgring best (which to add insult to injury was trounced by an already-existing car that Zonda had never bothered to release a Nür time for previously). All this leads me to wonder - where is Ferrari really headed? If we couldn't count on Ferrari, who can we count on at all?
That said, I think Porsche still remains relatively committed to putting out driver-oriented and track-oriented cars what with still offering manual transmissions across the board, along with their commitment to the GT3/RS and Cayman lines - although certainly their refusal to release a non-exotic high-output MR and/or purposefully underpowering the Cayman can be validly criticized.
And the GTR is intentionally engineered to do so, notably.
Pretty much all the credit goes to the ATTESSA AWD system that uses extensively torque-vectoring to keep the understeer under control. You can see by the fact that the updated GTR R35.2 has a RWD mode that works only for low speed and in certain emergency cases. On the track, AWD is the only option available. That shows Nissan is well aware of the fact that GTR is nothing without its AWD nanny.
Last edited by gengar; 12-30-10 at 01:47 PM.
12-30-10, 03:13 PM
#3425
Funny thing is I basically told Paul Rohovsky the same thing when I met up with him at SEMA - I'm not convinced cars like the LFA will exist in the rather near future. That's why I went ahead and committed to buying the LFA despite hesitating to buy supercars many times in the past. The LFA is just that good and just that amazing a vehicle and I was not going to pass it up.
Of course, I hope I'm wrong on that fear, but there are so many elements working against the existence of such vehicles. It's not just supercars that might be threatened by a movement away from ICEs or attacks from environmentalists and the green movement, but also a movement within supercar makers to focus on spec/lap times, absurd horsepower wars, etc., and forget about basics like keeping weight down and making cars that are - *gasp* - fun to drive!
Even supercar makers that we thought we could depend on are wavering. I recently caught up with a Ferrari salesman I'd kept in touch with over the years (I nearly bought a 360 Stradale from him). He told me the sales guys were annoyed with Ferrari these days because:
More generally, over the last few generations Ferrari vehicles have steadily gotten heavier, have more and more electronic assists, and have massively increased engine size. Then we have the Ferrari marketing geniuses making up a category to claim a Nürburgring best (which to add insult to injury was trounced by an already-existing car that Zonda had never bothered to release a Nür time for previously). All this leads me to wonder - where is Ferrari really headed? If we couldn't count on Ferrari, who can we count on at all?
That said, I think Porsche still remains relatively committed to putting out driver-oriented and track-oriented cars what with still offering manual transmissions across the board, along with their commitment to the GT3/RS and Cayman lines - although certainly their refusal to release a non-exotic high-output MR and/or purposefully underpowering the Cayman can be validly criticized.
Of course, I hope I'm wrong on that fear, but there are so many elements working against the existence of such vehicles. It's not just supercars that might be threatened by a movement away from ICEs or attacks from environmentalists and the green movement, but also a movement within supercar makers to focus on spec/lap times, absurd horsepower wars, etc., and forget about basics like keeping weight down and making cars that are - *gasp* - fun to drive!
Even supercar makers that we thought we could depend on are wavering. I recently caught up with a Ferrari salesman I'd kept in touch with over the years (I nearly bought a 360 Stradale from him). He told me the sales guys were annoyed with Ferrari these days because:
- Loss of lifelong Ferrari buyers who defected due to no more manual transmissions
- Decision to brand California as a Ferrari (instead of a Maserati as originally intended) has cannibalized 458 sales
- Lack of official Ferrari comment on the lightweight 458 to continue the Stradale/Scuderia line is causing wavering brand loyalty, esp. due to high penetration of the Scuderia
More generally, over the last few generations Ferrari vehicles have steadily gotten heavier, have more and more electronic assists, and have massively increased engine size. Then we have the Ferrari marketing geniuses making up a category to claim a Nürburgring best (which to add insult to injury was trounced by an already-existing car that Zonda had never bothered to release a Nür time for previously). All this leads me to wonder - where is Ferrari really headed? If we couldn't count on Ferrari, who can we count on at all?
That said, I think Porsche still remains relatively committed to putting out driver-oriented and track-oriented cars what with still offering manual transmissions across the board, along with their commitment to the GT3/RS and Cayman lines - although certainly their refusal to release a non-exotic high-output MR and/or purposefully underpowering the Cayman can be validly criticized.
that's what i like about the lfa, because toyota approached the whole problem differently. they focused on weight, size, and other details to make this a driver's car. i am not talking about the results and decisions they make, or their marketing on the car, but the philosophy itself is what i admire and give
to. their engine itself (small displacement v10, light weight) is a great example.i also think ferrari has entered a weird territory. in some way they are too caught up (and fell into the trap maybe?) with nissan. i just hope supercar makers can sit back, take a deep breath, and think about what they really need to do.
12-30-10, 03:56 PM
#3426
Around the driver centered car point, I would expect McLaren to provide a fine experience to the driver as well as the new upgraded Lotus offerings. Lambo has also talked about using a more engaging tranny. We will also have a P supercar to talk about and they tend to bring the goods.
The reason Lotus and McLaren are in the front on my mind is the recent business decisions at the dream car dealer near work, Lake Forest Sports Cars. These folks are a long time F, M and AM shop. I recently mentioned that they added Lotus in the past year (though I have not seen an Evora around, AM Rapide has been seen and is stunning). They are an early adopter for McLaren too.
They must know something is up (bad) with F to shift to these UK cars and that good things are coming from the new two.
Getting back to F, on paper the Cali is just what the doctor ordered, a hard top vert meant for every day use, with a proper trunk and all the modern auto science (direct injection, DSG......). Too bad it looks like it does and has the same quality attributes the rest of the F line up has.
I am interested in exploring the point about 458 shoppers going Cali and cheap. Though my visits to FChat have diminished, the 458s I see there are pretty loaded up.
Back to the LFA, who got the first one(s) in Japan?
The reason Lotus and McLaren are in the front on my mind is the recent business decisions at the dream car dealer near work, Lake Forest Sports Cars. These folks are a long time F, M and AM shop. I recently mentioned that they added Lotus in the past year (though I have not seen an Evora around, AM Rapide has been seen and is stunning). They are an early adopter for McLaren too.
They must know something is up (bad) with F to shift to these UK cars and that good things are coming from the new two.
Getting back to F, on paper the Cali is just what the doctor ordered, a hard top vert meant for every day use, with a proper trunk and all the modern auto science (direct injection, DSG......). Too bad it looks like it does and has the same quality attributes the rest of the F line up has.
I am interested in exploring the point about 458 shoppers going Cali and cheap. Though my visits to FChat have diminished, the 458s I see there are pretty loaded up.
Back to the LFA, who got the first one(s) in Japan?
12-30-10, 09:34 PM
#3428
Guest
Posts: n/a
Funny thing is I basically told Paul Rohovsky the same thing when I met up with him at SEMA - I'm not convinced cars like the LFA will exist in the rather near future. That's why I went ahead and committed to buying the LFA despite hesitating to buy supercars many times in the past. The LFA is just that good and just that amazing a vehicle and I was not going to pass it up.
Of course, I hope I'm wrong on that fear, but there are so many elements working against the existence of such vehicles. It's not just supercars that might be threatened by a movement away from ICEs or attacks from environmentalists and the green movement, but also a movement within supercar makers to focus on spec/lap times, absurd horsepower wars, etc., and forget about basics like keeping weight down and making cars that are - *gasp* - fun to drive!
Even supercar makers that we thought we could depend on are wavering. I recently caught up with a Ferrari salesman I'd kept in touch with over the years (I nearly bought a 360 Stradale from him). He told me the sales guys were annoyed with Ferrari these days because:
More generally, over the last few generations Ferrari vehicles have steadily gotten heavier, have more and more electronic assists, and have massively increased engine size. Then we have the Ferrari marketing geniuses making up a category to claim a Nürburgring best (which to add insult to injury was trounced by an already-existing car that Zonda had never bothered to release a Nür time for previously). All this leads me to wonder - where is Ferrari really headed? If we couldn't count on Ferrari, who can we count on at all?
That said, I think Porsche still remains relatively committed to putting out driver-oriented and track-oriented cars what with still offering manual transmissions across the board, along with their commitment to the GT3/RS and Cayman lines - although certainly their refusal to release a non-exotic high-output MR and/or purposefully underpowering the Cayman can be validly criticized.
And the GTR is intentionally engineered to do so, notably.
The funny thing is that for the R34, the Amuse Carbon-R made quite a strong case - if not proved outright - that an RWD-only variant of the R34 is superior on the track. That says a lot about the AWD approach for the GTR.
Of course, I hope I'm wrong on that fear, but there are so many elements working against the existence of such vehicles. It's not just supercars that might be threatened by a movement away from ICEs or attacks from environmentalists and the green movement, but also a movement within supercar makers to focus on spec/lap times, absurd horsepower wars, etc., and forget about basics like keeping weight down and making cars that are - *gasp* - fun to drive!
Even supercar makers that we thought we could depend on are wavering. I recently caught up with a Ferrari salesman I'd kept in touch with over the years (I nearly bought a 360 Stradale from him). He told me the sales guys were annoyed with Ferrari these days because:
- Loss of lifelong Ferrari buyers who defected due to no more manual transmissions
- Decision to brand California as a Ferrari (instead of a Maserati as originally intended) has cannibalized 458 sales
- Lack of official Ferrari comment on the lightweight 458 to continue the Stradale/Scuderia line is causing wavering brand loyalty, esp. due to high penetration of the Scuderia
More generally, over the last few generations Ferrari vehicles have steadily gotten heavier, have more and more electronic assists, and have massively increased engine size. Then we have the Ferrari marketing geniuses making up a category to claim a Nürburgring best (which to add insult to injury was trounced by an already-existing car that Zonda had never bothered to release a Nür time for previously). All this leads me to wonder - where is Ferrari really headed? If we couldn't count on Ferrari, who can we count on at all?
That said, I think Porsche still remains relatively committed to putting out driver-oriented and track-oriented cars what with still offering manual transmissions across the board, along with their commitment to the GT3/RS and Cayman lines - although certainly their refusal to release a non-exotic high-output MR and/or purposefully underpowering the Cayman can be validly criticized.
And the GTR is intentionally engineered to do so, notably.
The funny thing is that for the R34, the Amuse Carbon-R made quite a strong case - if not proved outright - that an RWD-only variant of the R34 is superior on the track. That says a lot about the AWD approach for the GTR.
Ferrari will have hybrids soon which really is crazy when you think about it. It seems computers and the number mentality have taken over design and taken out the emotional aspect of many cars. However I think with growth in Russia, China, Brazil etc supercar demand will only grow and they will figure out ways to survive and sell (Aston Cynget anyone
)
12-31-10, 02:27 PM
#3429
Of course, I hope I'm wrong on that fear, but there are so many elements working against the existence of such vehicles. It's not just supercars that might be threatened by a movement away from ICEs or attacks from environmentalists and the green movement, but also a movement within supercar makers to focus on spec/lap times, absurd horsepower wars, etc., and forget about basics like keeping weight down and making cars that are - *gasp* - fun to drive!
Even supercar makers that we thought we could depend on are wavering. I recently caught up with a Ferrari salesman I'd kept in touch with over the years (I nearly bought a 360 Stradale from him). He told me the sales guys were annoyed with Ferrari these days because:
- Loss of lifelong Ferrari buyers who defected due to no more manual transmissions
- [*]
- [*]
#2 shows that most Ferrari buyers are posers who only care about the brand, so they are happy just buying the cheapest Ferrari to say they have it - and Ferrari, by allowing the rebrand of a Maserati into its lineup, seems to be perfectly fine with that.
More generally, over the last few generations Ferrari vehicles have steadily gotten heavier, have more and more electronic assists, and have massively increased engine size. Then we have the Ferrari marketing geniuses making up a category to claim a Nürburgring best (which to add insult to injury was trounced by an already-existing car that Zonda had never bothered to release a Nür time for previously). All this leads me to wonder - where is Ferrari really headed? If we couldn't count on Ferrari, who can we count on at all?
More generally, over the last few generations Ferrari vehicles have steadily gotten heavier, have more and more electronic assists, and have massively increased engine size. Then we have the Ferrari marketing geniuses making up a category to claim a Nürburgring best (which to add insult to injury was trounced by an already-existing car that Zonda had never bothered to release a Nür time for previously). All this leads me to wonder - where is Ferrari really headed? If we couldn't count on Ferrari, who can we count on at all?
That said, I think Porsche still remains relatively committed to putting out driver-oriented and track-oriented cars what with still offering manual transmissions across the board, along with their commitment to the GT3/RS and Cayman lines - although certainly their refusal to release a non-exotic high-output MR and/or purposefully underpowering the Cayman can be validly criticized.
The Amuse Carbon-R is fast because it is an all gutted out with a huge carbon fiber diet and a full race prepped race car, not because RWD is superior. If all things being equal, an advanced 4WD drivetrain would always be faster then RWD only. The R35 GTR and 997 Turbo S proved that.
Last edited by BNR34; 12-31-10 at 02:31 PM.
12-31-10, 05:43 PM
#3430
Lexus Test Driver
Full of erroneous assumptions.....
If that were to happen, there is no way Ferrari will ever be able to sustain its customer base by offering hybrids. It just does not work. No matter what anyone says. The whole supercar industry would tank. They will simply stop buying these cars until the proper supercars come back.
Again, completely incorrect. Ferrari discontinued the manual transmission since the average age of Ferrari buyers is 50+ years. Most people in that age do not want to drive a manual transmission. Porsche is completely a different story since the demographics of Porsche are far younger. Porsche manuals far outsell the PDK/automatic counterparts. That is why Porsche only offers manual transmission on the GT3, GT3 RS, GT2 and GT2 RS. Porsche has been very vocal they have no plans to discontinue manual transmission cars. Porsche still has no intentions to offer PDK in the 998 GT cars.
Completely incorrect. Manual will only become reserved for a niche market. Manual transmission will never ever be discontinued altogether simply because certain brands have strong manual transmission loyalists. That was one of the reasons why BMW had to bring a 6 speed manual M5 to the US since a petition was filed and submitted to BMWNA. BMW just introduced 1-M BMW, which only will be offered with a 6 speed manual. Furthermore, Porsche only puts manual transmission in its fastest models, which are Porsche GT3, GT3 RS, GT2 and GT2 RS. Porsche also has been hinted in recent years to be in process of developing a 7 speed manual for the same niche market and will be offered only on exclusive models.
Again, you don't make any sense whatsoever. The only advantage is AWD is easier to handle and corrects the driver's mistakes to a certain extent. But, for an expert racer, AWD is a liability since he can control the car at the limits and does not need an AWD nanny to correct his mistakes and to overcome inherent deficiencies of the car's handling. For all the cons it adds, it is simply not worth it in racing to use AWD. Ever wonder why race cars are always AWD??. Here are the reasons:
1 - AWD adds atleast a couple hundred pounds of weight and a lot of it at the front of the car.
2 - Much higher drivetrain loss than RWD
3 - AWD drives the wrong wheels outwards under power cornering (front) resulting in understeer (plowing)
RWD is always the defacto standard of high performance. That is why almost all cars in ALMS Le Mans race use RWD. Do you know the ALMS R8 uses RWD and not AWD and ditches the quattro system?? Furthermore, the Nissan GTR GT2 Le Mans race car has nothing in common whatsoever with the road going model. It uses a N/A 4.5 Liter V8 that revs over 8000 rpm, RWD and has a different chassis than the road going version. Nissan these days almost never uses ATTESSA AWD in any of its race cars. Porsche never uses AWD in any of its race cars, but all of them have RWD and most commonly used model is the Porsche GT3 Cup car, which has RWD and almost identical to Porsche GT3 997. The reason is, all these manufacturers realize through extensive testing that their racing cars perform far better with RWD rather than AWD.
What do you mean 997 Turbo S proves that?? You are completely wrong since a PDK Turbo S is far slower around the race track than the 6 speed manual RWD Porsche GT2, GT2 RS, GT3 and GT3 RS. Once again, Porsche never ever in any of its race cars (Porsche 997 GT3 RSR Cup) uses AWD. All of them are RWD.
Do you need more examples???
Car manufacturers simply don't have a choice, it they want to keep selling cars, they have to meet the U.S. government mandates efficiency standards. I am sure if they don't have to meet the standards, supercar makers like Ferrari will continue to make gas guzzling V12 hypercars.
Those buyers consist of very small percentage of the total sales though. A year or 2 before Ferrari discountinued the clutch pedal, only 10% of the cars they sold have a clutch pedel.
Ever since the DSG came out, I knew it will just be a matter of times the clutch pedal will go away. Few people believe me, but I am predicting Porsche and BMW will stop offering a clutch pedal equipped street car in the not too distance future. BMW already tried to stop offering the clutch pedal with the E60 M5, the E92 M3 GTS is DCT only, the 997 Turbo S is PDK only........they are slowly phasing out the clutch pedal.
The Amuse Carbon-R is fast because it is an all gutted out with a huge carbon fiber diet and a full race prepped race car, not because RWD is superior. If all things being equal, an advanced 4WD drivetrain would always be faster then RWD only. The R35 GTR and 997 Turbo S proved that.
1 - AWD adds atleast a couple hundred pounds of weight and a lot of it at the front of the car.
2 - Much higher drivetrain loss than RWD
3 - AWD drives the wrong wheels outwards under power cornering (front) resulting in understeer (plowing)
RWD is always the defacto standard of high performance. That is why almost all cars in ALMS Le Mans race use RWD. Do you know the ALMS R8 uses RWD and not AWD and ditches the quattro system?? Furthermore, the Nissan GTR GT2 Le Mans race car has nothing in common whatsoever with the road going model. It uses a N/A 4.5 Liter V8 that revs over 8000 rpm, RWD and has a different chassis than the road going version. Nissan these days almost never uses ATTESSA AWD in any of its race cars. Porsche never uses AWD in any of its race cars, but all of them have RWD and most commonly used model is the Porsche GT3 Cup car, which has RWD and almost identical to Porsche GT3 997. The reason is, all these manufacturers realize through extensive testing that their racing cars perform far better with RWD rather than AWD.
What do you mean 997 Turbo S proves that?? You are completely wrong since a PDK Turbo S is far slower around the race track than the 6 speed manual RWD Porsche GT2, GT2 RS, GT3 and GT3 RS. Once again, Porsche never ever in any of its race cars (Porsche 997 GT3 RSR Cup) uses AWD. All of them are RWD.
Do you need more examples???
Last edited by 05RollaXRS; 12-31-10 at 05:55 PM.
12-31-10, 09:07 PM
#3433
Lexus Test Driver
Well, suit yourself.
Next time, think twice before you start talking about stuff you have littel info about such as, "AWD will always outperform RWD" and that "Porsche uses AWD for its top most performance cars". That is simply not true.
Next time, think twice before you start talking about stuff you have littel info about such as, "AWD will always outperform RWD" and that "Porsche uses AWD for its top most performance cars". That is simply not true.
Last edited by 05RollaXRS; 12-31-10 at 11:20 PM.
12-31-10, 11:59 PM
#3434
Lexus Champion
Well, AWD does outperform all currently in top speed at least, with the Veyron. AWD could be made much lighter than it is, but racing it seems stays away from AWD unless it's Rallying. Those cars aren't heavy by any means.
01-01-11, 07:45 AM
#3435
Lexus Champion
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That's actually by design of regulations, but yeah, give me a mid engined rwd car over awd any day.