Hey Everyone,
It's been a wild day after this whole fiasco with the ES detailed here https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=253966 . I've talked to quite a few dealers recommended by you guys and this is what I've come up with.
Right now I'm stuck between an ultra luxury ES 350 and a GS 350 with Mark Lev, intuitive park assist, and the rain sensing wipers.
The price on each is 42,411 and 52067 respectively.
What do you all think I should do here. I definitely believe I could bring down both prices by about 1500 to 2000, but that still leaves me looking at a 10,000 dollar difference. I can handle that cost, but I'm more concerned about maintenance which I mention at the end here.
Also, I test drove an ES again today, and sure enough I did notice the wind noise, though it wasn't that bad really IMHO. I do like the panoramic sunroof and the fact that the trunk and back seat are bigger. But damn is that GS hot!
So is the GS really worth that difference? I basically like the cars equally. All my friends like the body style of the GS more, and I suppose I tend to agree.
Oh and I've given up on the Dynamic cruise control. Sometimes you just gotta let things go. 8 months wasted... oh well.
My other question is, what am I looking at in terms of parts and maintenance price differences? Will the GS cost significantly more? Like, lets say the breaks need changing, or something like the front control arms. Something not covered under warranty. What would be the price difference? I gotta factor that in, because those costs really can bury you sometimes.
Thanks for all of your help.
Matthew

 

NOt sure about maintenance. But, as a UL owner, I love the glass roof and I love the fact that the car has more room (I have two young kids) than the GS. Front wheel drive is also a benefit, gas mileage will be better than an AWD system. Both cars are beautiful, and different in their own way. Yeah, the ES is probably more practical. The GS is more fun! $10K is a big difference in price. I personally think the ES UL is a bargin at $42 (and as you said you can get the price down lower) At 6600 miles on mine, no tranny flare but I do have some engine noise when cold outside for the first few mins. Otherwise, the car is great and I love it! Good luck with whatever you choose.

By the way, bought mine in Chantilly, VA and have been very happy with the dealership!!!

 

I dont think there will be much difference in maintainance cost. Though I believe the dealerships will priced out the parts for the 2 models differently (they would think since you could afford a more expensive car). I believe the COGS of the parts are practically the same with the buying power of Toyota. Its kinda like starbucks selling coffee for 2.50 and the local mcD's selling it for 1.50 or something like that. the GS is hot...if I could have decided to put myself to it, I'd probably have gotten it, but the ES is way more practical and economical. I dont have kids yet (well, maybe in 5 years time), but I do drive passengers often, so the comfort issue is a priority for me.

 

I did think about getting the ES but still went with the GS in the end. The key factor that I liked about the ES was the extra space, however, how a car drives/handles is more important to me and in the end that and the good looks of the GS won me over easily.

 

Keep in mind that the ES is the mechanical twin of the Toyota Camry. So eventhough they are different on the outside, when it comes to maintenance and parts, you can always swap ES and Camry parts.

So if you're looking to save some money on parts in the future, you'll be able to find the same ES parts being sold for the Camry at a lower price in a Toyota dealership. The parts are exactly identical in many cases, even with the same parts number!

As an example, the ES oil filter element that costs ~$10 at the Lexus dealership can be purchased for $3.49 at my local Toyota dealership. Not bad eh? Just gotta make sure they're the same part number and nothing more to it!

 

I agree with cocopops that the maintenance costs in-house (Lexus) will be roughly the same. If you were going to the IS you'd have significantly higher tire expenses, but that's not the case here.

But as 07LexusGuy states, with the ES350 you can buy Toyota parts for your car at a discount.

Every comparison has pros and cons. I like the IS styling better but I like the ES room more. The same kinds of pros and cons apply between the GS and ES for you. But given that you said, "I basically like the cars equally" the choice should be clear - one of these "equal" cars is $10,000 cheaper.

Plus you've stated several times that gas mileage is important to you - another ES win. I believe this feature will become more important as gas prices will be far higher than they are now before you get rid of the car, years down the road.

Ultimately, it's your choice as to what you're willing to pay for. Since you've already evaluated the two models as nearly equal, you have to ask, "Just where is that $10K difference going?"

 

My recommendation, take both of these cars for another test drive. Try to make a comparison as you're driving vs on a paper. I understand that you want every bell'n'whistle in the car, and both of those got it. The main difference comes from their luxury, performance, and handling levels, and the risk of getting ES w/major tranny problems. ES sacrificies on performance while boosting luxury and comfort. GS goes the other way by boosting performance and cutting down corners in luxury and space. Those are significant differences. Look at the future use of this car and figure out what is more important to you. You will be kidding yourself by thinking cars are the same and extra $10k is a waste of money.

 

These are all great points... man you guys have all the bases covered! One thing I'd like to add is whether there are external factors involved....such as showing off, and getting girls. If you are single and looking to get some hot action with some wild girls (who like fast cars), go with the GS. If you are a family man who wants to show more modesty and stability in life, go with the ES. The GS is indeed awesome to drive....and I actually wish I were single and had money to buy one. But being a dad and an chief accountant at a big firm, I can't really be too flashy with my ride. YMMV, but for me, the ES350 is a gem. Love it.

I know my bizarro bro Twister fabricated the whole ES tranny issue so he could get the GS and attract some honey on the side. I totally understand brotha.... A man needs a wife AND girlfriends.

 

I have a 06 GS300 for myself and the 07 ES350 for the wife. I can't really commend on the eninge of the GS since they're different from the 06 & the 07, but IMO, i like my GS more than my wife's ES350. You just can't beat the level of detail that Lexus put into when designing the new GS, and it's RWD, which is one of my top priorities when I was looking for a new car.
ES is just too "plain" for me, from the design, location of instruments, seating and ect. Also, I feel I'm on a boatride whenever I'm behind the wheels of my wife's ES350.

You mentioned in your other post that you are willing to pay 50K for a car you really want, but spending 50K on a ES350 is a bit too much in my opinion. Also, if you are ever going to sell and/or trade-in your car in a few yrs, GS will have a better resell value than the ES, that's just a fact across the auto industry. You might spend more on the maintenance if you go with the GS (bigger tires, performance brakes...etc), but you will get more money back when you trade-in or sell your car after 3-5 years.
Just go with your heart and get the one that'll make you happy for a long time, considering what you've gone through for your car purchase. Good luck.

 

hmm, many factors are taken into determining the resale value of the cars. Lexus would have a very good resale value, so I dont think I'd put the resale values of the GS and ES into consideration that much. Besides, dont think too much into the resale value number (its not my #1 priority when car shopping most of the time). Go with what you like. Heck, if you like the GS, the 10k extra means nothing when compared to your priceless satisfaction of the car.

 

Comfort and space for me and my back passengers were a higher priority over handling which is why I chose the ES instead of the GS. I also wanted some of the fun features like the extra-soft semi-aniline seats and the panoramic roof. I'm looking into a 350z for a good handling 2 seater.

 

If resale means trading the car on another, most, if not all dealers try to get the trade at auction price, the low end of the reported auction price, even Lexus dealers will do this.

 

If you enjoy "spirited driving" definitely go with the GS. If you just like to go from place to place at a sedate place and transport passengers, go for the ES. The ES is definitely luxurious and provides a quiet cushy ride. It's not for me though. I'm driving a brand new ES350 right now (~4000 miles on it) and it is a boat compared to my GS450h. There's much more body roll and front-end dive than I am used to and the steering somehow feels a little numb. The brakes on the ES350 don't seem powerful enough and the front-wheel drive means wheel spin and torque steer if you try to floor it from a standstill. There's good power for passing on freeways, but throttle response sucks. It feels like a second or two passes after flooring it before the kickdown mode engages. One good thing is that if you put the automatic transmission in manual mode it won't try to shift for you, you'll just bump up against the rev limiter. Didn't see any way to turn traction control on/off, didn't see a "power" mode button or switch to quicken throttle response or change shift points.

 

the GS350 has the GS430 brake setup, so you will probably need more frequent brake jobs about every 20k, the ES brakes last to 40k plus

 

You guys all made some seriously helpful comments here and I really appreciate it. So a big thank you to everyone who posted.
I'm really happy to say, I bought a 06 GS300 just like mj0723 has. It's just slightly used with 10,000 miles on it and I'm so happy I went that way. It still has Nav, and mark levison, which was a very tough to find for the 300.
So thanks again, I really do think things happen for a reason, and they really worked out for the best in the end.