XM Radio
07-04-02, 06:38 PM
#1
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XM Radio
Whats the best way to get an XM Radio signal into a stock Mark Levinson System? Some of the aftermarket heads transmit over an FM frequency. Or is there a way to put a line in on the Levinson system? What kind of quality can I expect from a 'connection' through an FM frequency??
07-05-02, 08:06 AM
#2
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I just went through this with my GS Nakamichi system, same basic problem, I believe the ML system should be similar (As in the Nak system, I'm guessing that you don't magically get an extra Aux input to do with as you please...) The solutions are basically broken up into two categories:
1) BY FAR the easiest way is to buy an XM tuner with an FM modulator and separate controller (Alpine or Pioneer - the Alpine is the better of the two, of course). It wires into your factory antenna line, straight-forward. You tune to a selected low FM frequency (around 89 MHz) to pass the signal to the rest of the system. The BIG problem here is that the FM modulator WILL screw up the audio quality of the received signal - loss of clarity, dynamic range, and frequency response, due to the very nature of FM. Oh, it will sound better than your normal FM over-the-air reception, but why screw up a signal that was received quite nicely in your trunk, only to get it from your trunk into your head unit? The only good reason is ease of installation.
2) The alternate way is to create another Aux input to use for the sat radio. No easy task. One problem is that you need a way to control the volume that is going to your amp, so just installing a remote-switched aux input switcher/adapter thingy (Sony makes one, see Crutchfield.com) doesn't cut it. You also have to generally worry about balance between the existing signals and the XM signal in terms of gain matching, especially if the ML head unit produces higher-than-line-level outputs. Oops, almost forgot, currently none of the add-on XM tuners have RCA outputs, except for the Sony car/home one, but it also comes with a very annoying internal FAN. The Sony tuner for use with their XM-ready heads has RCA's, but then you have no way to control it.
In my case, since I was gutting the Nak amp, but keeping the head unit, I inserted a dash-mounted AudioControl EQ with a built-in volume control and main and aux input switching. There may be many other ways to do this as well, once you resolve to start hacking on your system. I can't really recommend it, I did a lot of research to come up with the best compromises, and a lot of work experimenting and hacking on the system. Furthermore, there's not a lot of information out there on the electrical characteristics of the ML and Nak systems, so most installers are not familiar with the details.
One more word about satellite radio, if you will: I went with Sirius over XM for three reasons: 1) the Clarion Sirius tuner has a usable add-on controller AND RCA outs, 2) XM uses some neural processing in their compression scheme, causing the signal to spread left/right for things that sounds that should be centered - results in that neato Bose-like sound, if you're into that... 3) no commercials (at least for now). Note that Sirius has just officially launched July 1 in the Northeast, and they are currently still perfecting their compression encoder.
Hopefully someone that really knows the Levinson system can chime in here as well.
Jerry
1) BY FAR the easiest way is to buy an XM tuner with an FM modulator and separate controller (Alpine or Pioneer - the Alpine is the better of the two, of course). It wires into your factory antenna line, straight-forward. You tune to a selected low FM frequency (around 89 MHz) to pass the signal to the rest of the system. The BIG problem here is that the FM modulator WILL screw up the audio quality of the received signal - loss of clarity, dynamic range, and frequency response, due to the very nature of FM. Oh, it will sound better than your normal FM over-the-air reception, but why screw up a signal that was received quite nicely in your trunk, only to get it from your trunk into your head unit? The only good reason is ease of installation.
2) The alternate way is to create another Aux input to use for the sat radio. No easy task. One problem is that you need a way to control the volume that is going to your amp, so just installing a remote-switched aux input switcher/adapter thingy (Sony makes one, see Crutchfield.com) doesn't cut it. You also have to generally worry about balance between the existing signals and the XM signal in terms of gain matching, especially if the ML head unit produces higher-than-line-level outputs. Oops, almost forgot, currently none of the add-on XM tuners have RCA outputs, except for the Sony car/home one, but it also comes with a very annoying internal FAN. The Sony tuner for use with their XM-ready heads has RCA's, but then you have no way to control it.
In my case, since I was gutting the Nak amp, but keeping the head unit, I inserted a dash-mounted AudioControl EQ with a built-in volume control and main and aux input switching. There may be many other ways to do this as well, once you resolve to start hacking on your system. I can't really recommend it, I did a lot of research to come up with the best compromises, and a lot of work experimenting and hacking on the system. Furthermore, there's not a lot of information out there on the electrical characteristics of the ML and Nak systems, so most installers are not familiar with the details.
One more word about satellite radio, if you will: I went with Sirius over XM for three reasons: 1) the Clarion Sirius tuner has a usable add-on controller AND RCA outs, 2) XM uses some neural processing in their compression scheme, causing the signal to spread left/right for things that sounds that should be centered - results in that neato Bose-like sound, if you're into that... 3) no commercials (at least for now). Note that Sirius has just officially launched July 1 in the Northeast, and they are currently still perfecting their compression encoder.
Hopefully someone that really knows the Levinson system can chime in here as well.
Jerry
07-09-02, 08:20 AM
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If the ML system uses the SAME LEXUS changer as in the 1998-2001 Nak and non NAK vehicles, we have an AUX input converter available "NOW" for the car.
We helped engineer the product, 2 aux input jacks and feeds directly into the factory radio.
See our OEM department at http://store.autotoys.com
We helped engineer the product, 2 aux input jacks and feeds directly into the factory radio.
See our OEM department at http://store.autotoys.com
08-21-02, 07:45 PM
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So, does anybody yet have an aux-input solution for a 2001 RX300 _with_ CD Changer? I'd love to get my Sirius satellite radio hooked up directly to the sound system instead of through an FM modulator.
Failing that, does anybody have any wiring diagrams or other info about the audio system? I'll do something myself if I can get enough info about the signals at various connectors.
Failing that, does anybody have any wiring diagrams or other info about the audio system? I'll do something myself if I can get enough info about the signals at various connectors.
08-22-02, 03:22 PM
#7
One of the recent threads here has indicated that you can tap into the Pioneer Head Unit/CD preamp signal to the factory amp - INSIDE the factory amp, after the point where the switching occurs between radio/CD. That being the case, it appears that you can use the Sony 4-channel line-level switcher, available from Cruthcfield.com (see 'aux input adapters') to switch between sat and normal signals. Still a problem getting volume and tone control for sat, so still need dash-mounted volume control, or full EQ w/volume.
Bottom line is that DIY is just not that simple. I recommend using the AUX adapter mentioned by 'Concepts' (autotoys.com) above - if it is in fact available - and you can verify that it will work. It will alleviate the tone/volume problem, you'll still be able to use the head unit's preamp controls. And you won't have the pain of running preamp signals up to the dash and back.
I'll go out on a limb here now: I have a 2001 RX300 as well. IF you're not looking to make any other audio system changes, the FM modulator solution is an easy choice. The stock RX300 system isn't really good enough to warrant doing the aux thing as opposed to just keeping it simple and using FM, which will be reasonably clean within the limits of the stock speakers/amp for that system. If you do the aux thing, you're going to go thru a lot of hassle for minimal return. My two cents, your mileage may vary.
Bottom line is that DIY is just not that simple. I recommend using the AUX adapter mentioned by 'Concepts' (autotoys.com) above - if it is in fact available - and you can verify that it will work. It will alleviate the tone/volume problem, you'll still be able to use the head unit's preamp controls. And you won't have the pain of running preamp signals up to the dash and back.
I'll go out on a limb here now: I have a 2001 RX300 as well. IF you're not looking to make any other audio system changes, the FM modulator solution is an easy choice. The stock RX300 system isn't really good enough to warrant doing the aux thing as opposed to just keeping it simple and using FM, which will be reasonably clean within the limits of the stock speakers/amp for that system. If you do the aux thing, you're going to go thru a lot of hassle for minimal return. My two cents, your mileage may vary.
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08-22-02, 05:37 PM
#9
Answers:
1) Techno: Yes. On Sirius, there are 4 dance stations: One is Planet Dance, playing music (not necessarily popular) you would hear in dance clubs across the country; one is Vortex, playing mostly electronic music (trance); one is Dance Hits, playing the most popular current dance music; one is Strobe, the 'disco' channel. The combination of the first three is great for both popular and underground house and trance.
XM has similar channels, The Move, BPM, Club82, and Chrome.
2) Not sure, but I think so. For Sirius, there are three satellites spaced across North America, two are over the US at any one time. I think they pass over Canada as well, or you can get the signal at a slightly different azimuth angle. I don't think Sirius or XM have put terrestrial repeaters in Canada though. You might want to check their websites.
3) Overcast, no problem. Storm? New Jersey has been in a drought situation for the last bunch of months, so it hasn't really rained hard since I installed the system, can't comment yet.
1) Techno: Yes. On Sirius, there are 4 dance stations: One is Planet Dance, playing music (not necessarily popular) you would hear in dance clubs across the country; one is Vortex, playing mostly electronic music (trance); one is Dance Hits, playing the most popular current dance music; one is Strobe, the 'disco' channel. The combination of the first three is great for both popular and underground house and trance.
XM has similar channels, The Move, BPM, Club82, and Chrome.
2) Not sure, but I think so. For Sirius, there are three satellites spaced across North America, two are over the US at any one time. I think they pass over Canada as well, or you can get the signal at a slightly different azimuth angle. I don't think Sirius or XM have put terrestrial repeaters in Canada though. You might want to check their websites.
3) Overcast, no problem. Storm? New Jersey has been in a drought situation for the last bunch of months, so it hasn't really rained hard since I installed the system, can't comment yet.
08-23-02, 03:52 AM
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Originally posted by LexusRules
couple question:
1) are any stations good techno?
2) is there reception in canada?
3) how does it work during over cart / storm? thanks
couple question:
1) are any stations good techno?
2) is there reception in canada?
3) how does it work during over cart / storm? thanks
2) There are 3 satellites in a polar orbit, basically doing a figure eight around the south pole up over very northern parts of Canada. Below is an animation showing the orbits that'll make it pretty clear. Sirius could probably add a fourth satellite and easily provide 24-hour service to all of South America and Antarctica if they wanted.
3) I had my Jensen unit installed the evening the huge storm hit New Jersey about 3 weeks ago with tornado-force winds and 6 or 8 inches of rain in about an hour or two, and was driving home through it and never lost the signal except for a second or so when I'd go under wider overpasses.
08-23-02, 04:01 AM
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Originally posted by engin_ear
One of the recent threads here has indicated that you can tap into the Pioneer Head Unit/CD preamp signal to the factory amp - INSIDE the factory amp, after the point where the switching occurs between radio/CD. That being the case, it appears that you can use the Sony 4-channel line-level switcher, available from Cruthcfield.com (see 'aux input adapters') to switch between sat and normal signals. Still a problem getting volume and tone control for sat, so still need dash-mounted volume control, or full EQ w/volume.
Bottom line is that DIY is just not that simple. I recommend using the AUX adapter mentioned by 'Concepts' (autotoys.com) above - if it is in fact available - and you can verify that it will work. It will alleviate the tone/volume problem, you'll still be able to use the head unit's preamp controls. And you won't have the pain of running preamp signals up to the dash and back.
I'll go out on a limb here now: I have a 2001 RX300 as well. IF you're not looking to make any other audio system changes, the FM modulator solution is an easy choice. The stock RX300 system isn't really good enough to warrant doing the aux thing as opposed to just keeping it simple and using FM, which will be reasonably clean within the limits of the stock speakers/amp for that system. If you do the aux thing, you're going to go thru a lot of hassle for minimal return. My two cents, your mileage may vary.
One of the recent threads here has indicated that you can tap into the Pioneer Head Unit/CD preamp signal to the factory amp - INSIDE the factory amp, after the point where the switching occurs between radio/CD. That being the case, it appears that you can use the Sony 4-channel line-level switcher, available from Cruthcfield.com (see 'aux input adapters') to switch between sat and normal signals. Still a problem getting volume and tone control for sat, so still need dash-mounted volume control, or full EQ w/volume.
Bottom line is that DIY is just not that simple. I recommend using the AUX adapter mentioned by 'Concepts' (autotoys.com) above - if it is in fact available - and you can verify that it will work. It will alleviate the tone/volume problem, you'll still be able to use the head unit's preamp controls. And you won't have the pain of running preamp signals up to the dash and back.
I'll go out on a limb here now: I have a 2001 RX300 as well. IF you're not looking to make any other audio system changes, the FM modulator solution is an easy choice. The stock RX300 system isn't really good enough to warrant doing the aux thing as opposed to just keeping it simple and using FM, which will be reasonably clean within the limits of the stock speakers/amp for that system. If you do the aux thing, you're going to go thru a lot of hassle for minimal return. My two cents, your mileage may vary.
I've seen the reverse engineering diagram someone posted here for teh SC300, and would expect a certain similarity in the RX300, and it would appear one could readily tap at the point the CD audio is returned to the head unit. It's just a matter of knowing what levels are there and perhaps providing some limited gain or attenuation so one can match up the signal level enough not to have the volume too different switching between CD & satellite.
The only thing I found on autotoys.com site makes it pretty clear they're providing aux inputs instead of a CD connection, and not offering a CD/aux switch. Which seems to go against what was posted above, but since they can't even be bothered to post a picture or any real details, I think of it as vapor ware right now.
Anyone around here have the full service manual for the RX300? Are there any diagrams of the audio system electronics included? This simply can't be that hard that there's nothing out there now available to do it. Even if it's Lexus-branded equipment, it's based on off-the-shelf stuff, and there's got to be some semblance of standards involved in the signals that are wired back & forth.
08-23-02, 11:58 AM
#12
Way cool animation, dswallow!!!
It's obvious that the Sirius satellites can run rings around the XM ones! ;-)
You're making a good point about the FM modulator, and to be fair I haven't heard Sirius thru FM yet, and I will say that the quality is very good via direct RCA, though a bit flatter sounding than CD. It's definitely much closer to CD than FM radio, and it depends on what station you're tuned to, because all stations do not have an equal number of bits (equal bandwidth) allocated. Sirius uses a statistical multiplexer to dynamically allocate bits as required, but the average bit allocations from station to station are not equal. You can hear the quality vary as you go from station to station, and I think there are other variables affecting this in addition to station bandwidth.
I was re-installing my rear seats into the GS when that storm hit that you're talking about. Nasty. Almost got soaked.
It's obvious that the Sirius satellites can run rings around the XM ones! ;-)
You're making a good point about the FM modulator, and to be fair I haven't heard Sirius thru FM yet, and I will say that the quality is very good via direct RCA, though a bit flatter sounding than CD. It's definitely much closer to CD than FM radio, and it depends on what station you're tuned to, because all stations do not have an equal number of bits (equal bandwidth) allocated. Sirius uses a statistical multiplexer to dynamically allocate bits as required, but the average bit allocations from station to station are not equal. You can hear the quality vary as you go from station to station, and I think there are other variables affecting this in addition to station bandwidth.
I was re-installing my rear seats into the GS when that storm hit that you're talking about. Nasty. Almost got soaked.
08-23-02, 05:11 PM
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I can't take credit for the animation; it was created by a user over at www.clubxm.com.
That would be a cute advertising tagline, "We run rings around our competition."
I'm real tempted one day to go tap the RCA-outs and run a line from the car to my home stereo just to see what it sounds like. The most noticable thing to me without doing a side-by-side comparison is an apparent lack of bass in the music, and a general feeling that the midrange is sort of "hollow." I'm not sure of a better way to put it. Frankly, I've listened only to 2 stations so far at any length -- I suppose I should listen to some others for a while but I'm just too happy having one particular station to turn it to anything else yet (one night I did listen to a couple radio serials on Radio Classics, though -- radio was real corny back in the 40's/50's, huh?!)!
--Doug.
That would be a cute advertising tagline, "We run rings around our competition."
I'm real tempted one day to go tap the RCA-outs and run a line from the car to my home stereo just to see what it sounds like. The most noticable thing to me without doing a side-by-side comparison is an apparent lack of bass in the music, and a general feeling that the midrange is sort of "hollow." I'm not sure of a better way to put it. Frankly, I've listened only to 2 stations so far at any length -- I suppose I should listen to some others for a while but I'm just too happy having one particular station to turn it to anything else yet (one night I did listen to a couple radio serials on Radio Classics, though -- radio was real corny back in the 40's/50's, huh?!)!
--Doug.
08-23-02, 05:30 PM
#14
No shortage of bass in what they are transmitting, I can verify that, I've actually been impressed, it's pretty clean using the RCA's. You may be missing midbass, giving a hollow, colder sound. It may truly be the FM modulator as you mentioned - may not even be from the FM process, it's hard to imagine it would screw up the bass that much, but it could be other unwanted filtering going on inside the hardware. The tonal quality of many stations varies too, and the talk channels are broadcast using a bare minimum of bits, sounds like not even enough, often hashy. I'm not a classical fan per se, but you might try one of the classical channels - those channels are usually allocated more dynamic bandwidth than others because of the nature of both the music and the more critical listener base.
08-24-02, 08:44 PM
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Yesterday my Jensen satellite radio died, exactly 21 days after installation. I took it back today and was told Circuit City isn't selling them anymore; they're discontinued (meybe Jensen has discontinued them, maybe Circuit City just isn't selling them anymore, whatever), so they've ordered an AudioVox replacement for me to be installed Wednesday.
It's rather boring now driving without the satellite radio.
It's rather boring now driving without the satellite radio.