Vaistech - new VML Feedback!!!!
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From: CO
Lexus Champion
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From: USA
Rookie
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 51
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From: CO
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jul 2009
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From: USA
There is no comparison. Lots of background noise with FM modulator. I am not saying Bluetooth matches a full digital connection, but it is as good as the analog connections.
I can't seriously imagine anyone compares it to FM modulation. Use a different analogy if you want to be taken seriously.
I can't seriously imagine anyone compares it to FM modulation. Use a different analogy if you want to be taken seriously.
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Joined: Mar 2005
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From: CO
There is no comparison. Lots of background noise with FM modulator. I am not saying Bluetooth matches a full digital connection, but it is as good as the analog connections.
I can't seriously imagine anyone compares it to FM modulation. Use a different analogy if you want to be taken seriously.
I can't seriously imagine anyone compares it to FM modulation. Use a different analogy if you want to be taken seriously.
Bluetooth can not guarantee stable reception in vehicle period... Do not forget you are not only one on the road.
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Joined: Jul 2009
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From: USA
I am not trying to compare Bluetooth and FM modulator. I am just saying HQ audio via bluetooth in vehicle - no way. Do you have Wi-Fi in your house? Is your reception the same everywhere in your house? How about your cell phone? Put it on granite countertop for example and check what happened with your reception. In real world theory stay far away from practice.
Bluetooth can not guarantee stable reception in vehicle period... Do not forget you are not only one on the road.
Bluetooth can not guarantee stable reception in vehicle period... Do not forget you are not only one on the road.
It is not the same as a VML type connection, but in my actual experience it is better than the SL2i.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Dec 2006
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From: CA, Bay Area
Off the topic, the a2dp has everything to do with the equipment on both ends... car receiver and player. My CX-9's a2dp paired with Samsung Trance sounds like ****. It's nice to hear your RX works well on the bluetooth player.
Back to the topic, I am going to jump on the VML bandwagon and hopefully can come impressed as Lee?
Back to the topic, I am going to jump on the VML bandwagon and hopefully can come impressed as Lee?
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Joined: Jun 2010
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From: wa
Well all,
I am in the unique position of having owned 2, Third generation GS vehicles... my first was an '06 GS300 with Nav/ML and my 2nd is an 08 GS460 with Nav/ML. In my first vehicle, I had the SL2i installed for IPOD integration, and it sounded great - better than most OEM systems, IMHO.
When I purchased my new vehicle, I wanted to take a step UP in sound quality.. I seriously considered all the bells and whistles of going with the SL2vi for video from my IPOD, but decided all digital sound quality is far superior (and I could always play a DVD if I wanted).
It is NOT common knowledge, but in the ML system, Lexus goes digital all the way to the ML amp! There is no preamp out used between the headunit and the amp. This is a great design, which is horrifically marginalized by analogue outputs from the IPOD IMHO.
So... along comes Vaistech with the VML unit... the unit itself is not much different than the other units in its use of factory harnesses, etc., but that's where it ends. It's essentailly a USB interface as opposed to a proprietary IPOD interface. This allows you to use ANY USB mass storage device from a late model IPOD (in drive mode), USB storage drives, memory sticks, etc., OR, you can even use the built-in SATA hard drive interface for built-in tunes (similar to the hard drive built-into the later LX570's and LS460's).
However you slice it, once you get passed used to the navigatoin anomalies introduced by LEXUS (not Vaistech) due to motion sensors, etc., this is BY FAR the best OEM audio integration kit available...
The Vaistech unit has it's own processor, plays MP3's natively, does not introduce any inexpensive or portable "op amp" like analogue amplification, the sound is not colored or distorted the way an "aux in" via headphone out would, this is just THE way to go....
Ironically, it's also much less expensive than the alternative approaches but, IMHO, far superior in it's flexibility!
I know that Vaistech is also working on some very signfiicant "band aids" to overcome some of the limitations of the Lexus navigation, but these limitations are not differerent than any other available integration kit for Lexus and certainly no different than the SLxx series.
I would highly recommend this unit! It does ABSOLUTELY sound better than IPOD ---> SL2xI in the exact same vehicle setup....
Enjoy!!!
I am in the unique position of having owned 2, Third generation GS vehicles... my first was an '06 GS300 with Nav/ML and my 2nd is an 08 GS460 with Nav/ML. In my first vehicle, I had the SL2i installed for IPOD integration, and it sounded great - better than most OEM systems, IMHO.
When I purchased my new vehicle, I wanted to take a step UP in sound quality.. I seriously considered all the bells and whistles of going with the SL2vi for video from my IPOD, but decided all digital sound quality is far superior (and I could always play a DVD if I wanted).
It is NOT common knowledge, but in the ML system, Lexus goes digital all the way to the ML amp! There is no preamp out used between the headunit and the amp. This is a great design, which is horrifically marginalized by analogue outputs from the IPOD IMHO.
So... along comes Vaistech with the VML unit... the unit itself is not much different than the other units in its use of factory harnesses, etc., but that's where it ends. It's essentailly a USB interface as opposed to a proprietary IPOD interface. This allows you to use ANY USB mass storage device from a late model IPOD (in drive mode), USB storage drives, memory sticks, etc., OR, you can even use the built-in SATA hard drive interface for built-in tunes (similar to the hard drive built-into the later LX570's and LS460's).
However you slice it, once you get passed used to the navigatoin anomalies introduced by LEXUS (not Vaistech) due to motion sensors, etc., this is BY FAR the best OEM audio integration kit available...
The Vaistech unit has it's own processor, plays MP3's natively, does not introduce any inexpensive or portable "op amp" like analogue amplification, the sound is not colored or distorted the way an "aux in" via headphone out would, this is just THE way to go....
Ironically, it's also much less expensive than the alternative approaches but, IMHO, far superior in it's flexibility!
I know that Vaistech is also working on some very signfiicant "band aids" to overcome some of the limitations of the Lexus navigation, but these limitations are not differerent than any other available integration kit for Lexus and certainly no different than the SLxx series.
I would highly recommend this unit! It does ABSOLUTELY sound better than IPOD ---> SL2xI in the exact same vehicle setup....
Enjoy!!!
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/gs-...tly-to-ml.html
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 38
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From: wa
if not in vehicle applications, where else would you play HQ BT audio Playback?
Work out?? sure
In and out of the car?? why the not play music out of your pocket??
It's an ideal way of playing music! especially if the connection is still digital, over the air you might lose 10% of quality, maybe... I think it's totally worth it, if you're in for the long ride, plug it in!
more here:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/gs-...tly-to-ml.html
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 38
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From: wa
BlueTooth vs FM Transmission???? LOL
I am not trying to compare Bluetooth and FM modulator. I am just saying HQ audio via bluetooth in vehicle - no way. Do you have Wi-Fi in your house? Is your reception the same everywhere in your house? How about your cell phone? Put it on granite countertop for example and check what happened with your reception. In real world theory stay far away from practice.
Bluetooth can not guarantee stable reception in vehicle period... Do not forget you are not only one on the road.
Bluetooth can not guarantee stable reception in vehicle period... Do not forget you are not only one on the road.
Digital!! - It ether works, or it doesn't.
Bluetooth works in the range of 3 meters best. - how is a car not the best scenario??
Other cars around you?? lol, most new cars have BT handsfree system built in. They chose to go with BT for a reason.
With new cell phone laws on the road, 90% of the people are using BT Handsfree systems. What % of people get a disturbance using their build in BT system?? I don't know of any one.
(It's ether a battery operated BT handsfree device or poorly build/tested BT stack on the device. )
Go to www.bluetooth.com read up some white papers on this technology to get some factual information instead of assuming and comparing to FM transmission... LOL
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
From: wa
Off the topic, the a2dp has everything to do with the equipment on both ends... car receiver and player. My CX-9's a2dp paired with Samsung Trance sounds like ****. It's nice to hear your RX works well on the bluetooth player.
Back to the topic, I am going to jump on the VML bandwagon and hopefully can come impressed as Lee?
Back to the topic, I am going to jump on the VML bandwagon and hopefully can come impressed as Lee?
If the software is build and QA'd properly on both devices transmitting/receiving you're in good shoes. If not? well there is a saying for that...
"you get what you pay for" it is what it is
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 51
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From: CO
You got to get your facts straight before carrying out such assumptions.
Digital!! - It ether works, or it doesn't.
Bluetooth works in the range of 3 meters best. - how is a car not the best scenario??
Other cars around you?? lol, most new cars have BT handsfree system built in. They chose to go with BT for a reason.
With new cell phone laws on the road, 90% of the people are using BT Handsfree systems. What % of people get a disturbance using their build in BT system?? I don't know of any one.
(It's ether a battery operated BT handsfree device or poorly build/tested BT stack on the device. )
Go to www.bluetooth.com read up some white papers on this technology to get some factual information instead of assuming and comparing to FM transmission... LOL
Digital!! - It ether works, or it doesn't.
Bluetooth works in the range of 3 meters best. - how is a car not the best scenario??
Other cars around you?? lol, most new cars have BT handsfree system built in. They chose to go with BT for a reason.
With new cell phone laws on the road, 90% of the people are using BT Handsfree systems. What % of people get a disturbance using their build in BT system?? I don't know of any one.
(It's ether a battery operated BT handsfree device or poorly build/tested BT stack on the device. )
Go to www.bluetooth.com read up some white papers on this technology to get some factual information instead of assuming and comparing to FM transmission... LOL
Digital!! - It ether works, or it doesn't.
Why not in the car? It is simple. You drive "box" made of metal (sorry for comparison), and you have 1,2 or more cell phones working on reception/transmutation at same time. Plus some phones have WiFi active at the same time, plus you are not only one on the road! Yep if you switch your phone into "airplane mode" it will be much better. :-) Do you want to do it?
You are absolutely right "you get what you pay for". 20..50$ bluetooth module will give you High Quality audio? That is high quality audio, what is CD quality in your understanding? Can you please clarify it for me? Do you have any technical specs for MediaBridge unit (Frequency respond, THD, DAC manufacturer)?
Last edited by NAK; Jul 6, 2010 at 05:37 PM.
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 38
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From: wa
I did get my facts. I drove RX350/HS250h three times at this point using Bluetooth streaming from iPhone 3G, iPhone 4 and my wife Samsung (I do not remember a model number). Sound quality not even close to wired even analog connection...
Yep, good example would be your bluetooth cell phone connection in your car. It is 100% digital! How many times people on another line ask your to turn off your bluetooth and use the phone itself? I know with a "right" settings for the bluetooth.... Can you please tell me how can I adjust those settings on iPhone 4 for example? I tried to adjust them in the car. Better, but still sucks!
Why not in the car? It is simple. You drive "box" made of metal (sorry for comparison), and you have 1,2 or more cell phones working on reception/transmutation at same time. Plus some phones have WiFi active at the same time, plus you are not only one on the road! Yep if you switch your phone into "airplane mode" it will be much better. :-) Do you want to do it?
You are absolutely right "you get what you pay for". 20..50$ bluetooth module will give you High Quality audio? That is high quality audio, what is CD quality in your understanding? Can you please clarify it for me? Do you have any technical specs for MediaBridge unit (Frequency respond, THD, DAC manufacturer)?
Yep, good example would be your bluetooth cell phone connection in your car. It is 100% digital! How many times people on another line ask your to turn off your bluetooth and use the phone itself? I know with a "right" settings for the bluetooth.... Can you please tell me how can I adjust those settings on iPhone 4 for example? I tried to adjust them in the car. Better, but still sucks!
Why not in the car? It is simple. You drive "box" made of metal (sorry for comparison), and you have 1,2 or more cell phones working on reception/transmutation at same time. Plus some phones have WiFi active at the same time, plus you are not only one on the road! Yep if you switch your phone into "airplane mode" it will be much better. :-) Do you want to do it?
You are absolutely right "you get what you pay for". 20..50$ bluetooth module will give you High Quality audio? That is high quality audio, what is CD quality in your understanding? Can you please clarify it for me? Do you have any technical specs for MediaBridge unit (Frequency respond, THD, DAC manufacturer)?
Saying A2DP sucks is equivalent to saying cars don't drive faster than 25MPH.
A2DP is configurable and can be tuned to output certain quality which will differ depending on devices and it's health/performance state.
Here are some examples of what you can have your A2DP configured to:
Max bitpool 80
Min bitpool 30
sampling 48000
or you can use the bare minimum bitpool set at ~30 with low sampling rate and expect to get high quality sound out of it
)All in all, there are more things to take into perspective to get something working right, as it is with everything else out there... even choosing the right wired connection for that matter.
And yes, with certain devices you will get a fraction of the quality, than you will with others. BT Headsets will not compare in quality Jawbone Mytalk with some Jabra, BlueAnt, Samsung,... WiFi Dlink DIR 825 to some Generic ActionTech,... these devices differ from each other in quality and performance and stability like day and night!! Same would apply to this application.
the specs are not out yet as the MediaBridge is not out officially, but according to DICE engineers, the sound quality will differ by 10% Wired vs wireless. Majority of the ears out there will not be able to tell much difference.
Last edited by Serggus; Jul 7, 2010 at 12:41 AM.
I just spoke to VAIS and the input signal from USB, portable storage, card, etc. is digital, but they convert to analog prior to sending it to the head unit. Makes sense given they list a high quality D/A in the VML specs. If they weren't converting to analog, makes no sense to have it in the chain or as part of the device. Since the input to the amp is digital, there must be another A/D conversion prior to sending the audio signals over the lines to the amp. This A/D handles existing analog signals (AM/FM/Tape/2 channel input - likely everything but PCM digital on DVD or CD based discs). None of this negates or changes that there is likely an improvement in SQ by using the VML, but it clears up some questions I had about the differences among the audio add on products and the whole digital/analog discussion. I am still planning on replacing my SL2i-UP with a VML so I can load up a drive with my FLAC files to get as close to original SQ as possible with the convenience of not dealing with plastic discs.