I followed Darius' install onthe Polks in the front, and I used 1/2 MDf, and the XTC baffles, and the job came out nice...but one thing....it sounds WORSE!

Everyone has said that if you at least switch out your stock speakers, then you can get a litle better sound. That is all I want...just a little bit better.

Here is the problem: I have a 98GS400 with NAV and pioneer system. The front speakers are 2ohm, and these Polks are 4ohm AND they are higher wattage..db6500 components is what I put in. The volume is gone and the midrange is not here either. The midrage is WORSE than before. HOw can that be? I guess the speakers just don't get enough power to play.

Am I going to fry my NAV system? I looked at the wiring diagram, and it shows the signal coming from the NAV, and to the left front speaker. With the 4ohm speaker being down-line of the NAV system fry it?

I bought Percy's book - very enlightening, but it doesn't specifically address the pioneer/NAV system, and I don't want to blow up my NAV unit.....big bucks I'm sure..

CALLING ALL NAVIGATION WITH PIONEER OWNERS. What did you do to your sound, and how? The NAV system is the most complicated, and the most dangerous to mess with, but I can't find anyone with solutions specific to this version.

Can anyone help?? Percy?? Help me, I'm MEEEELTING

thanks-

any input is appreciated....I'm trying a DIY, but now getting scared to turn on the car without knowing if the NAV system could be in danger-

thansk,

Fred

 

Hello GS1Day,

The first upgrade to the stereo for me was the speakers. I noticed an INCREASE in volume (and noise) when I changed speakers. Since the amp is 2 ohm and the speakers are 4 ohm, I think you are asking the amp to do 1/2 the work it was doing before so you should notice an increase in volume as well. Not sure about that part though so ask one of the Audio pro's in this forum. You also may want to check www.The12Volt.com.

Note: I can only turn the volume to 17, maybe 18 out of 35, before my head explodes or the tweeters make my ears bleed.

 

1) Where did you find that your front speakers are 2 ohm? Sounds too low, I don't think this is common for factory speakers of any kind. Usually 4-12 ohms somewhere for the general junk that they put in, but maybe there's a requirement for the NAV system....
2) Whether your volume goes up or down when you replace speakers depends on the "transfer function" of the speakers - the current-to-acoustical energy (in dB) ratio. It is a characteristic of how much sound pressure the driver will make from a given amount of current/power. When you change speakers to a higher impedance, for a given position of the volume control, the headunit electronics will attempt to make the same voltage output, as long as the current required to do that is within its capability. The current , however, will be less for the higher impedance. What this translates to in sound pressure, and thus perceived volume, is dependent on the transfer function. That's the theory. So if the replacement speakers have an identical (in theory) transfer function as the originals, the volume will go DOWN. Less current, less power, less volume.
Now we need to understand more about the system and what else may have been changed. Also, when you connect a different impedance speaker to the crossover, it can change the frequency response, because the crossover is usually expecting the speaker to be a certain impedance.
Note that it is not a good idea to ever be running any headunit past the 12:00 point on the volume control. The headunit may start clipping past this point. First it will not be too noticeable, but turn it up any further and you could clip half of the wave off, resulting in *severe* distortion, which can easily destroy speakers if too much power. I've personally measured the clipping of the 2nd gen GS Nakamichi headunit, and it gets pretty ugly past about 1:00 on the volume. I don't think you'll hurt anything if you don't crank your volume control up too far to compensate for the low volume, but you'll still need to fix the problem.
Unfortunately I'm not familiar with the NAV system in the GS, but maybe someone else can help.

 

Loose the XTC baffles and you'll notice a big difference. The door should be used as your enclosure (with dynamat or equivalent) not the small cups that the XTC's are. At least that has been my experience in the past.

 

engin - I know it seems wierd, but it says 2ohm right on the speaker enclosure for the fronts. It says 4ohm on the rears. I have read people's posts which say there is not a built in crossover for the stock stereo /NAV model, and my ears are disagreeing.

First, my system is stock with just the new polk speakers, and a box with 2 10's and an amp was aded to rear by previous owner. when I fade to the front I cannot hear much mid and nearly no midbass or bass.

My rear speakers are coaxials, but I hear nearly zero highs coming out of them when I fade to the rear.

I think that the signal is seperated into three areas-

Fronts have a low pass filter rears have a low pass and a high pass

sub has a low pass.

Does anyone else feel the same way?

BTW - your right about the foam baffles - they do block a good bit of sound, and have already been removed.

 

Engin_ear / GS1Day : When I had the Nakamichi head unit I could only turn it up to about about 10:00 on the dial before distortion. It was horrible. the Nakamichi in my GS sounded like the speakers were under water.

I just went into the closet and checked the Nak 4.5" speakers; the have 4 ohm printed on the back. Click the link for the photo: https://www.clublexus.com/gallery/da...5DSC05082.jpeg

GS1Day / DPGS430 : Yep, I found that the speakers work better without a baffle, check my other posts.
When I was using the Nakamichi amp and Head unit I noticed the crossover too. Iwas something like this:

Front - Hi Pass (150hz)
Rear - Upper Low Pass (120hz)
Sub - Low Pass (80hz)

The head unit was THEE BIGGEST OBSTACLE in my system. Changing the cabin speakers made a great improvement but after upgrading to Alpine and seperate amps, everything changed for the better. Is there a reason you have decided against an aftermarket HU?

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by GS1day
[B]I followed Darius' install onthe Polks in the front, and I used 1/2 MDf, and the XTC baffles, and the job came out nice...but one thing....it sounds WORSE!

Everyone has said that if you at least switch out your stock speakers, then you can get a litle better sound. That is all I want...just a little bit better.

Here is the problem: I have a 98GS400 with NAV and pioneer system. The front speakers are 2ohm, and these Polks are 4ohm AND they are higher wattage..db6500 components is what I put in. The volume is gone and the midrange is not here either. The midrage is WORSE than before. HOw can that be? I guess the speakers just don't get enough power to play.


***Basically lost enclosure area behind the speaker when foam baffles are used. Not surprised at the result. The polks have a higher wattage rating, but it doesn't mean that more power is going through the speakers. With the switch from 2ohm stocks to 4 ohm aftermarkets, expect a 3dB loss, or about 1/2 the volume is gone. Remove the baffles and you'll do fine.***

Am I going to fry my NAV system? I looked at the wiring diagram, and it shows the signal coming from the NAV, and to the left front speaker. With the 4ohm speaker being down-line of the NAV system fry it?

***It WON'T fry the system. You're running a higher resistance speaker, and if anything, the amp you're using will actually last a bit longer since it doesn't have to push as much current through the speaker.***

I bought Percy's book - very enlightening, but it doesn't specifically address the pioneer/NAV system, and I don't want to blow up my NAV unit.....big bucks I'm sure..

***I didn't have a NAV/Pioneer unit to play around with.... ***

CALLING ALL NAVIGATION WITH PIONEER OWNERS. What did you do to your sound, and how? The NAV system is the most complicated, and the most dangerous to mess with, but I can't find anyone with solutions specific to this version.

Can anyone help?? Percy?? Help me, I'm MEEEELTING

***Must be the hot weather ... ***

Percy

 

One thing I forgot to ask is: Did you speakers come with crossovers? Even if not, if you haven't already done so, you may want to check the speaker terminals for a capacitor -it may be somewhat hidden, but often there will be three terminals, a negative plue two positives, one that connects thru a cap, one that doesn't. If you've connected the one thru the cap, that's where your mids midbass is going. If only two terminals, check for connected capacitor. Need direct connection since stock stuff already has crossover. Just thought I'd mention it just in case....

 

Baffels are way gone...there was improvement, but still not where I want to be.

engin- The fronts have a crossover and I wired them correctly. I ran the line in to the crossover, and ran fresh wire to the new tweet, so that cap was not there anymore. I'm not sure if I follow you about the connections....the polks only have one place to connect the speaker wires on them, and no caps on them.

Darius- thanks for the info - your POST on your install was definitely helpful. HOw did you find out the info on the frequency ranges for your Nacamichi system?

Percy - It is hot here in Austin, you are right! You're book didn't break me, it was very informative. However if it is to be the 'bible' of GS audio, there is a verse or two missing about one of the apostles Saint Navigation. I know you don't want to hear that, but even though it hasn't been as helpful as I may have wanted, I can say that I don't feel like it was a waste of money. It was educational for sure. I'm headed to Circuit city right now to get a job as an installer jk

Here's the real question now..... how do I change what frequency range is sent to each speaker? Will this work>>>>? Run the output from the front and rears at the back of the stock amp to LLC's then to a new 4 channel amp with a high pass filter and then send that to the speakers?? Will that allow me to send a full signal (except bass) to both my front seperates and my coaxials in the rear?

BTW - I did find the solution to my problems.....fixes the stereo in the car, and the nagging girlfriend.

Pics attached....

 

Hastalabusa is my name on the hayabusa.org site. I just got this 2001 Hyabusa, and it is sweet, and it definetly sounds better than my stereo in my Lexus

Any more Busa lovers out there?

 

GS1day, you're now overqualified to get a job at Circuit City as an installer.

Your problem may be in the use of the Polk crossover with the stock amp. You may want to try connecting the mid directly the way the stock mid was connected (not thru a new crossover) to see if you get more level.

 

Bass Mechanic - Quad Maximus
10hz-100hz test tomes in 5 hz incremement for 5 seconds.

Bass Mechanic - Forgot the name of the CD
30hz-200hz tones in 1 hz incrememnts for 5 seconds.