Intermittent Power Loss & Exhaust Note Change
08-19-11, 12:05 PM
#16
Im not risking the money again. I track the car all the time and use nitrous, its not worth spending the money to have them melt out. And now that the cat cases are still there i have no inspection problems... 
One cat blew through and out the muffler the other got stuck.
When it was new being installed:
One cat blew through and out the muffler the other got stuck.When it was new being installed:
Last edited by darbs242; 08-19-11 at 12:08 PM.
08-20-11, 11:46 AM
#20
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Nate,
Glad you found the problem. I saw this thread while I was away (2013 GS Word Debut).
I knew right away that the symptons were a potential CAT failure..
Seems these Random CATs are not lasting in race applications or even street applications..
Glad you & Ryan are here sharing your experiences.
As a side note to others, our exhaust system was designed and developed with the OEM manifolds & primary CATs in place.
~ We sell our exhaust "For off road use only" with out the secondary CATs.
Joe Z
Glad you found the problem. I saw this thread while I was away (2013 GS Word Debut).
I knew right away that the symptons were a potential CAT failure..
Seems these Random CATs are not lasting in race applications or even street applications..
Glad you & Ryan are here sharing your experiences.
As a side note to others, our exhaust system was designed and developed with the OEM manifolds & primary CATs in place.
~ We sell our exhaust "For off road use only" with out the secondary CATs.
Joe Z
Last edited by Joe Z; 08-20-11 at 11:50 AM.
08-22-11, 01:43 PM
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Thanks for the follow ups guys. I sent an email to Random for their input and their response is below:
"This type of failure is the result of excess fuel entering the exhaust system. when that happens, core temperatures exceed 2,000 degrees, which takes the temper out of the core material. When that happens, the material is weakened and failures such as those shown in your photos results. These types of failures are the result of an engine or control system problem and are not covered by the terms of our warranty. Further, if the problem isn't corrected, converter failure will continue to occur. I'm not being unsympathetic, but we literally have thousands of converters in use, and failures like you've shown always prove to be the result of engine-related issues."
I understand how running rich leaves more fuel for the CAT to burn off, but I know the motor is running fine and that the O2 are doing their job. I checked the 02's when I was trying to figure out why the car was acting wierd and they were behaving normal. By normal I mean that they were cycling between a high and low voltage, which tells me that the ECU was doing it's job in chasing stoich.
Thoughts?
"This type of failure is the result of excess fuel entering the exhaust system. when that happens, core temperatures exceed 2,000 degrees, which takes the temper out of the core material. When that happens, the material is weakened and failures such as those shown in your photos results. These types of failures are the result of an engine or control system problem and are not covered by the terms of our warranty. Further, if the problem isn't corrected, converter failure will continue to occur. I'm not being unsympathetic, but we literally have thousands of converters in use, and failures like you've shown always prove to be the result of engine-related issues."
I understand how running rich leaves more fuel for the CAT to burn off, but I know the motor is running fine and that the O2 are doing their job. I checked the 02's when I was trying to figure out why the car was acting wierd and they were behaving normal. By normal I mean that they were cycling between a high and low voltage, which tells me that the ECU was doing it's job in chasing stoich.
Thoughts?
08-22-11, 02:09 PM
#23
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The air/fuel shouldn't be cycling between rich/lean if you're looking at the right O2 sensor. The one after the primary cat cycles between rich and lean to determine if the cat is working, the primary O2 is a wideband planar device, so it should be directly reading your air/fuel mixture.
Regardless, it's hard to imagine the car is dumping fuel into the exhaust if your gas mileage is in the same range as the engine with the OEM cats in place. If your fuel mileage went to crap, then it would make sense.
Regardless, it's hard to imagine the car is dumping fuel into the exhaust if your gas mileage is in the same range as the engine with the OEM cats in place. If your fuel mileage went to crap, then it would make sense.
08-22-11, 02:23 PM
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The air/fuel shouldn't be cycling between rich/lean if you're looking at the right O2 sensor. The one after the primary cat cycles between rich and lean to determine if the cat is working, the primary O2 is a wideband planar device, so it should be directly reading your air/fuel mixture.
Regardless, it's hard to imagine the car is dumping fuel into the exhaust if your gas mileage is in the same range as the engine with the OEM cats in place. If your fuel mileage went to crap, then it would make sense.
Regardless, it's hard to imagine the car is dumping fuel into the exhaust if your gas mileage is in the same range as the engine with the OEM cats in place. If your fuel mileage went to crap, then it would make sense.
Right, forgot that the primary's are wideband. I was using an OBD2 scanner tool and watching the live data as the car ran. I must have been watching the 02 simulators cycle the secondary 02's then.
Agreed on the fuel economy, that was the only check I could think of that didn't require getting on a dyno with sniffers. It hasn't gone down dramatically since the exhaust change, so no issue?
This leads me to believe that the Random Cats are just less robust than the Borla's or OEM. Perrhaps that is the trade off for the "high flow".
08-22-11, 03:18 PM
#25
When Darbs had this issue a couple of months ago, I asked Paul from PPE for his comments they were:
So, I guess this type of failure is somehow common for an aftermarket cat. When I was in the market for my cats, I thought about the RTs. They have been around for awhile, but, IMO, they are so small and expensive that I decided to go with the Magnaflows. I really couldn't see how such a small cat could be effective.
Lou
Hey Lou,
That is not shocking at all. I have seen a lot of melted metal cats.
Cats are more for street use/emissions purposes. In order for a metal cat to handle that type of abuse, the car would have to be tuned. He was definately getting fuel into the cat and it ignited inside the core causing it to fail. It doesn't take much to do that.
When companies say "race cat" they mean it flows better than a stock cat, that's all. The materials are the same.
Regards,
Paul
That is not shocking at all. I have seen a lot of melted metal cats.
Cats are more for street use/emissions purposes. In order for a metal cat to handle that type of abuse, the car would have to be tuned. He was definately getting fuel into the cat and it ignited inside the core causing it to fail. It doesn't take much to do that.
When companies say "race cat" they mean it flows better than a stock cat, that's all. The materials are the same.
Regards,
Paul
Lou
08-23-11, 05:36 AM
#26
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I will have to check the cats on mine by the look of it. They may not survive to the headers being installed this week I have had no problem with the exhaust so far.
I have had no problem with the exhaust so far.
08-23-11, 08:44 AM
#27
Well crap, we dont have much in the way of fuel tuning to limit the amount of heat created.
My metalic Berks on my G35 burned up too. They, told me it was due to a lean condition. I was like, I run rich most of the time. Makes more sense now.They however, replaced them no questions.
I would expect Random to replace at least one set, just like magnaflow and other cat manufactuers.
I bought 12 Vband flanges to flange the cats/straight pipes in. Im not going to get stuck because of a cat failure.
~Dv8
My metalic Berks on my G35 burned up too. They, told me it was due to a lean condition. I was like, I run rich most of the time. Makes more sense now.They however, replaced them no questions.
I would expect Random to replace at least one set, just like magnaflow and other cat manufactuers.
I bought 12 Vband flanges to flange the cats/straight pipes in. Im not going to get stuck because of a cat failure.
~Dv8
Lost me a customer for life.
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