I went to sema and ....
11-09-07, 02:10 PM
#1
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I went to sema and ....
Since I lived here I figured I would try and go to the show for a couple hours. I ended up going on Thursday and quickly found the Lexus setup outside with the track and Dyno.
My impression was two sided. I liked what I heard from the car on the Dyno but the price that was quoted(60k+) was a bit much. The numbers they finally came out with weren't as dramatic as I had hoped. 416hp roughly wasn't as high as most of expected them to get out of this engine. On top of that I think the car itself has only a few items different from its little brothers IS350 and 250. The wheels, brakes, exhaust and engine were the major components that stood out. There was badging in car and they have a different leather seating package but that is basically it.
I had considered buying this car and trading in my 350 but when I paid 35,500 for my car and an ISF will run me about 62,000, it is tough to justify to my wife a doubling in price for 100 more hp and a few other track car features.
I know this post is kind of late but I recently had a baby so I have been out of it for awhile. Feel free to comment with what you thought if you went to Sema and saw the car. The line for driving the car was quite long when I there. Plus, the person I was with didn't look like he wanted to wait there.
My impression was two sided. I liked what I heard from the car on the Dyno but the price that was quoted(60k+) was a bit much. The numbers they finally came out with weren't as dramatic as I had hoped. 416hp roughly wasn't as high as most of expected them to get out of this engine. On top of that I think the car itself has only a few items different from its little brothers IS350 and 250. The wheels, brakes, exhaust and engine were the major components that stood out. There was badging in car and they have a different leather seating package but that is basically it.
I had considered buying this car and trading in my 350 but when I paid 35,500 for my car and an ISF will run me about 62,000, it is tough to justify to my wife a doubling in price for 100 more hp and a few other track car features.
I know this post is kind of late but I recently had a baby so I have been out of it for awhile. Feel free to comment with what you thought if you went to Sema and saw the car. The line for driving the car was quite long when I there. Plus, the person I was with didn't look like he wanted to wait there.
11-09-07, 02:33 PM
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Another thing I thought about is whether I could actually spend the extra cash to buy this car and be satisfied with it. The short answer is no. For the extra money it would cost it does not appear to be nearly unique enough from the original car. I need to look at the price difference from a 335i to a M3 also. That has to be closer than what have here. I expected a rocket for that much money and I got a space shuttle. A little slower and little heavier but still does the same job.
Lexus is still working out this whole performance division market that hasn't really been out very long.
Lexus is still working out this whole performance division market that hasn't really been out very long.
11-09-07, 03:23 PM
#3
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That's a unique perspective. You mentioned the IS-F is not much different from the ISX50s, but then listed nearly all the components on the car as differences that stood out.
11-09-07, 08:53 PM
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I agree with you regarding the price. The $60K base price estimate seems really expensive for what you are getting. I was hoping I could get the IS-F equipped the way I want it for about $55K max. I guess my dream has been derailed.
Sure, Lexus upgraded all of the major performance parts on the car, but it will be a tough sell at that price once all the loyalists have their IS-F. I'm not as concerned about the power rating. It would be nice to have bragging rights, but it appears Lexus has taken the safe route.
I am rapidly losing interest in this car, mostly because of the estimated price
Sure, Lexus upgraded all of the major performance parts on the car, but it will be a tough sell at that price once all the loyalists have their IS-F. I'm not as concerned about the power rating. It would be nice to have bragging rights, but it appears Lexus has taken the safe route.
I am rapidly losing interest in this car, mostly because of the estimated price
Since I lived here I figured I would try and go to the show for a couple hours. I ended up going on Thursday and quickly found the Lexus setup outside with the track and Dyno.
My impression was two sided. I liked what I heard from the car on the Dyno but the price that was quoted(60k+) was a bit much. The numbers they finally came out with weren't as dramatic as I had hoped. 416hp roughly wasn't as high as most of expected them to get out of this engine. On top of that I think the car itself has only a few items different from its little brothers IS350 and 250. The wheels, brakes, exhaust and engine were the major components that stood out. There was badging in car and they have a different leather seating package but that is basically it.
I had considered buying this car and trading in my 350 but when I paid 35,500 for my car and an ISF will run me about 62,000, it is tough to justify to my wife a doubling in price for 100 more hp and a few other track car features.
I know this post is kind of late but I recently had a baby so I have been out of it for awhile. Feel free to comment with what you thought if you went to Sema and saw the car. The line for driving the car was quite long when I there. Plus, the person I was with didn't look like he wanted to wait there.
My impression was two sided. I liked what I heard from the car on the Dyno but the price that was quoted(60k+) was a bit much. The numbers they finally came out with weren't as dramatic as I had hoped. 416hp roughly wasn't as high as most of expected them to get out of this engine. On top of that I think the car itself has only a few items different from its little brothers IS350 and 250. The wheels, brakes, exhaust and engine were the major components that stood out. There was badging in car and they have a different leather seating package but that is basically it.
I had considered buying this car and trading in my 350 but when I paid 35,500 for my car and an ISF will run me about 62,000, it is tough to justify to my wife a doubling in price for 100 more hp and a few other track car features.
I know this post is kind of late but I recently had a baby so I have been out of it for awhile. Feel free to comment with what you thought if you went to Sema and saw the car. The line for driving the car was quite long when I there. Plus, the person I was with didn't look like he wanted to wait there.
11-11-07, 08:54 PM
#5
I had a chance to drive the IS-F they had at SEMA. Did 0-60mph, 60-0 ABS braking, skidpad & slolam. Very nice car but IMO not worth the extra money compared to the IS350. FWIW, here are my opinions:
Handling: The only mods I have on the IS350 are wheels/tires/springs and my IS350 has very similar handling characteristics & body roll to the IS-F. The stock IS350 has way too much body roll. The stock IS-F tire widths are the same as the stock IS350 although it has 19" wheels instead of 18". On the street there should not be a perceptable difference. My lowered IS350 actually had a better driving "feel" and I didn't feel as high up as the IS-F.
Acceleration: Below 50mph the accleration between the IS350 and IS-F is very similar and I could not note any difference. Above 50mph there is a BIG difference. Except for passing on the highway, there should not be much difference on the street. Also, the stock IS350 traps 102-103mph so it is not a slouch by any means. Below 50mph I was disappointed in the acceleration (probably traction control related).
Sound: Not as big a difference as I was expecting. The IS-F 5.0L V8 is not a high reving motor and has a very mellow tone that left me wanting more. The IS350 has a sharper sounding exhaust.
Braking: Very similar from what I was able to test (from 60mph anyway).
Exterior: IS350 > IS-F
Lowered IS350 >> IS-F
Lowered IS350 w/19" Volk Progressiv TE's
>>> IS-F
Interior: Very similar with some small differences. These have been covered 100x but I didn't really pay much attention to them when in the car.
Transmission: Much better in the IS-F but there is still that ANNOYING 1 sec delay between when you pull the paddle til the car shifts. When it finally shifts, the IS-F shifts quicker and harder but not by much.
In short, if you are not going to track the car... get an IS350. It behaves the same as the IS-F in 99+% of all traffic situations. If you seriously track your car and want a good DD (only 1 parking spot in your garage maybe???), this may be the car for you. It looks like the IS-F will be a $25k+ premium over the IS350 and I cannot justify that for myself.
Handling: The only mods I have on the IS350 are wheels/tires/springs and my IS350 has very similar handling characteristics & body roll to the IS-F. The stock IS350 has way too much body roll. The stock IS-F tire widths are the same as the stock IS350 although it has 19" wheels instead of 18". On the street there should not be a perceptable difference. My lowered IS350 actually had a better driving "feel" and I didn't feel as high up as the IS-F.
Acceleration: Below 50mph the accleration between the IS350 and IS-F is very similar and I could not note any difference. Above 50mph there is a BIG difference. Except for passing on the highway, there should not be much difference on the street. Also, the stock IS350 traps 102-103mph so it is not a slouch by any means. Below 50mph I was disappointed in the acceleration (probably traction control related).
Sound: Not as big a difference as I was expecting. The IS-F 5.0L V8 is not a high reving motor and has a very mellow tone that left me wanting more. The IS350 has a sharper sounding exhaust.
Braking: Very similar from what I was able to test (from 60mph anyway).
Exterior: IS350 > IS-F
Lowered IS350 >> IS-F
Lowered IS350 w/19" Volk Progressiv TE's
>>> IS-F Interior: Very similar with some small differences. These have been covered 100x but I didn't really pay much attention to them when in the car.
Transmission: Much better in the IS-F but there is still that ANNOYING 1 sec delay between when you pull the paddle til the car shifts. When it finally shifts, the IS-F shifts quicker and harder but not by much.
In short, if you are not going to track the car... get an IS350. It behaves the same as the IS-F in 99+% of all traffic situations. If you seriously track your car and want a good DD (only 1 parking spot in your garage maybe???), this may be the car for you. It looks like the IS-F will be a $25k+ premium over the IS350 and I cannot justify that for myself.
11-11-07, 09:25 PM
#6
SilverBull, I can appreciate your opinion. At SEMA, I had a few in depth conversations with friends about their opinions on the car after driving it, and they said almost exactly what you did. Concerns about the price, not enough differentiation from the IS350, et cetera, were almost verbatim from our discussion.
Javier
Javier
Javier
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11-11-07, 11:15 PM
#7
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oh god, where to begin. i cant believe i am wasting my midterm study time to respond to this ridiculous post, but I can't help it because its so ignorant that its annoying.
similar handling characteristics and body roll? when one of the few things that all the different magazine/internet reviews have been agreeing on is that the IS-F has fantastic handling enough for many of them to say its more of a track car than a street car, someone like you who has absolutely zero credibility comes and says the stuff above. IMO the IS-F stock wheels are one of the best looking stock rims ever to be on a production car, and I think many people would agree. they certainly look MUCH better than a stock 18 on the IS 350. oh yes there IS a perceptible difference. REALLY? what did you lower your IS 350 with? because I have eibach sports on mine and to my knowledge there is absolutely NO WAY any reviewer is going to praise that cars handling if its doesn't have a better driving 'feel' than my lowered IS 350.
I'm curious as to know what kind of instruments are connected to your body for you to be able to gauge how much faster the IS-F is vs the IS 350 plus based on your judgement about the drive 'feel', I doubt its anything anyone should take seriously. If the lack of acceleration difference was the cause of traction issues, you would have still felt that the car was much more powerful.
another thing almost everyone who has reviewd the car have been agreeing upon is the sound of the engine. plus a whole lot of people including myself have heard the sound of the car either through the Lexus provided clips on the special IS-F site or even better the numerous videos of the IS-F being dynoed on youtube which clearly show that the car does sound COMPLETELY different from the IS 350/250.
LMAO @ "is not a high revving motor" and "mellow tone", duh the RPM redline is just 6800. and although some reviewers have mentioned that the low redline limited the enjoyment of the awesome sound after 3600 rpm, they still loved the sound nonetheless.
who really should take your post seriously when you say that the IS 350 has a shaper sound exhaust?
REALLY? the IS-F's braking is actually one of the THE MOST impressive thigns about the car and yet you claim that its "very similar"
you've got to be kidding me. the IS-F has achieved stopping distances of less than 110 ft from 60 mph which is outstanding and we have someone like you say thats its nothing special.
reviewers also have been raving about how the IS-F's brake did not fade AT ALL during extensive testing and we have someone like you who never even fully tested the brakes come out and say this.
those are COMPLETELY your OPINION. I am a IS 350 owner too and I think the IS-F looks MUCH better.
wow, you gotta be kidding me again... people like me who haven't even got to drive the car know (from videos and reviews) that the IS-F's 8 gear auto is as good if not better than advertised.
.........................please..............dont...................take.............this...........................guy seriously
Handling: The only mods I have on the IS350 are wheels/tires/springs and my IS350 has very similar handling characteristics & body roll to the IS-F. The stock IS350 has way too much body roll. The stock IS-F tire widths are the same as the stock IS350 although it has 19" wheels instead of 18". On the street there should not be a perceptable difference. My lowered IS350 actually had a better driving "feel" and I didn't feel as high up as the IS-F.
Acceleration: Below 50mph the accleration between the IS350 and IS-F is very similar and I could not note any difference. Above 50mph there is a BIG difference. Except for passing on the highway, there should not be much difference on the street. Also, the stock IS350 traps 102-103mph so it is not a slouch by any means. Below 50mph I was disappointed in the acceleration (probably traction control related).
LMAO @ "is not a high revving motor" and "mellow tone", duh the RPM redline is just 6800. and although some reviewers have mentioned that the low redline limited the enjoyment of the awesome sound after 3600 rpm, they still loved the sound nonetheless.
who really should take your post seriously when you say that the IS 350 has a shaper sound exhaust?
you've got to be kidding me. the IS-F has achieved stopping distances of less than 110 ft from 60 mph which is outstanding and we have someone like you say thats its nothing special.
reviewers also have been raving about how the IS-F's brake did not fade AT ALL during extensive testing and we have someone like you who never even fully tested the brakes come out and say this.
In short, if you are not going to track the car... get an IS350. It behaves the same as the IS-F in 99+% of all traffic situations. If you seriously track your car and want a good DD (only 1 parking spot in your garage maybe???), this may be the car for you. It looks like the IS-F will be a $25k+ premium over the IS350 and I cannot justify that for myself.
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11-12-07, 12:04 AM
#8
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Ignorant? Did you drive the car too? It sounds like this guy did.
Oh, BTW, the IS350 on the same Michelins will outstop the IS-F. Know why? Because the IS-F is 100 lbs heavier and both cars are on the same size tires. Those big brakes and big wheels don't factor into better performance until you start overheating the IS350 brakes, and that's a bit of a feat in itself.
Oh, BTW, the IS350 on the same Michelins will outstop the IS-F. Know why? Because the IS-F is 100 lbs heavier and both cars are on the same size tires. Those big brakes and big wheels don't factor into better performance until you start overheating the IS350 brakes, and that's a bit of a feat in itself.
11-12-07, 12:24 AM
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Ignorant? Did you drive the car too? It sounds like this guy did.
Oh, BTW, the IS350 on the same Michelins will outstop the IS-F. Know why? Because the IS-F is 100 lbs heavier and both cars are on the same size tires. Those big brakes and big wheels don't factor into better performance until you start overheating the IS350 brakes, and that's a bit of a feat in itself.
Oh, BTW, the IS350 on the same Michelins will outstop the IS-F. Know why? Because the IS-F is 100 lbs heavier and both cars are on the same size tires. Those big brakes and big wheels don't factor into better performance until you start overheating the IS350 brakes, and that's a bit of a feat in itself.
11-12-07, 06:12 AM
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Wow. It's amazing how one can say that the IS 350 and IS F is the same car but on the other hand say: The only thing that is different is the 8 speed transmission, bigger engine, rims, brakes, exhaust, F badge, price and so on. GEEZ that sounds like a different car to me!! Granted their both IS's and that is where they share similarities. If you can afford the car and want the car then get it! It's as simple as that. For one to come up with mega excuses for not buying one is just lame. Don't get me wrong, I understand why owning two IS's wouldn't make sense to some but again, if you can afford it then get it! who cares? My guess is either you have money to blow and could buy any car you want or you really can't afford it but just afraid to admit it for whatever ridiculous reason(s). I thought the IS 250 and the IS 350 were the same until I jumped into the IS 350. I'd rather pay the extra money to get what I want. My preference for having more power is what made my driving experience in the 350 all the more fun! 100 more ponies does make a difference, it just depends on what you value most in a car. Live and be happy..you only live once! 
11-12-07, 07:41 AM
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These people comparing the 350 to the isf are just complete ________ I cant even begin where to start, keep telling urself ur 350 is just as good as the isf and maybe even better than it cause you have it lowered LMAO . . . you gotta be kidding me . . .
Btw whoever asked that question about what instrument he used to measure the feel . . . its this new dyno they have, its implanted in your *** - BUTT DYNO
And whoever keeps using price justification as the reason they wont be buying it and are saying just go get the m3, your even more dumb than the other guy - the isf being faster than the m3 in accel, (c&d who properly drove the car and the amci test driver test verified) and your baggin on it that its only alil faster than the 335i, then how can you justify getting an m3 if the 335i chipped is only about .2 seconds slower to 60 than the m3 . . . (mag tests) you gotta be kidding me.
Btw whoever asked that question about what instrument he used to measure the feel . . . its this new dyno they have, its implanted in your *** - BUTT DYNO
And whoever keeps using price justification as the reason they wont be buying it and are saying just go get the m3, your even more dumb than the other guy - the isf being faster than the m3 in accel, (c&d who properly drove the car and the amci test driver test verified) and your baggin on it that its only alil faster than the 335i, then how can you justify getting an m3 if the 335i chipped is only about .2 seconds slower to 60 than the m3 . . . (mag tests) you gotta be kidding me.
Last edited by vip3r1850; 11-12-07 at 07:46 AM.
11-12-07, 09:18 AM
#12
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Ignorant? Did you drive the car too? It sounds like this guy did.
Oh, BTW, the IS350 on the same Michelins will outstop the IS-F. Know why? Because the IS-F is 100 lbs heavier and both cars are on the same size tires. Those big brakes and big wheels don't factor into better performance until you start overheating the IS350 brakes, and that's a bit of a feat in itself.
Oh, BTW, the IS350 on the same Michelins will outstop the IS-F. Know why? Because the IS-F is 100 lbs heavier and both cars are on the same size tires. Those big brakes and big wheels don't factor into better performance until you start overheating the IS350 brakes, and that's a bit of a feat in itself.
I'm no expert in vehicle braking dynamics but it would seem to me that If the car is 1" lower, 90% stiffer in the front, 45% stiffer in the rear, this would significantly decrease nose dive and rear end lift, thereby, keeping more of the weight over the rear wheels and therefore decrease braking distance. Haven't they already recorded shorter stopping distances with the ISF than the IS350?
11-12-07, 11:02 AM
#13
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I've had a chance to drive the IS350 and IS-F on the track and on regular city streets. They are not the same car aside from the body, different wheels, seating, brakes, engine and etc. I will have my full report soon since i'm the only one here on CL along with my cohort jruhi4 (my.IS Editor) at the moment that has had full track time and street time with the IS-F.
BTW, I also got to drive the IS-F at SEMA as well. Let me be the first to say that track was not a good place to feel the true dynamics of the car. The course was too short and restrictive for ANY car to be truly "evaluated" on.
BTW, I also got to drive the IS-F at SEMA as well. Let me be the first to say that track was not a good place to feel the true dynamics of the car. The course was too short and restrictive for ANY car to be truly "evaluated" on.
11-12-07, 11:04 AM
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I've had a chance to drive the IS350 and IS-F on the track and on regular city streets. They are not the same car aside from the body, different wheels, seating, brakes, engine and etc. I will have my full report soon since i'm the only one here on CL along with my cohort jruhi4 (my.IS Editor) at the moment that has had full track time and street time with the IS-F.
11-12-07, 01:21 PM
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Everyone's entitled to an opinion and there is no "straight". I'm sure reading a lot of "passionate informed defenses" from people whose real knowledge doesn't extend beyond a YouTube siting or a walk around at a car show.