Engine Hard Start | 3IS F Sport
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 6,260
Likes: 1,752
From: Richmond Hill, Ontario, Canada
I would probably stop using the injector cleaner going forward...in case it's creating an issue. I know it's a Lexus branded product, but it's best to eliminate any variables.
My key battery is actually low right now as the ca is showing me the message. If you're not getting the message then you're probably ok.
If you're not getting any idling issues, or black smoke out the tailpipe on startup, then you likely don't have an injector issue.
For what it's worth to pull a couple plugs just to see their physical condition, I would do that next.
Any chance that you carry around more than one smart key on your person? Like if you had another vehicle that uses a smart key and you keep a key for it on you with the Lexus key.
My key battery is actually low right now as the ca is showing me the message. If you're not getting the message then you're probably ok.
If you're not getting any idling issues, or black smoke out the tailpipe on startup, then you likely don't have an injector issue.
For what it's worth to pull a couple plugs just to see their physical condition, I would do that next.
Any chance that you carry around more than one smart key on your person? Like if you had another vehicle that uses a smart key and you keep a key for it on you with the Lexus key.
Thread Starter
10th Gear
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 13
Likes: 1
From: QA
I would probably stop using the injector cleaner going forward...in case it's creating an issue. I know it's a Lexus branded product, but it's best to eliminate any variables.
My key battery is actually low right now as the ca is showing me the message. If you're not getting the message then you're probably ok.
If you're not getting any idling issues, or black smoke out the tailpipe on startup, then you likely don't have an injector issue.
For what it's worth to pull a couple plugs just to see their physical condition, I would do that next.
Any chance that you carry around more than one smart key on your person? Like if you had another vehicle that uses a smart key and you keep a key for it on you with the Lexus key.
My key battery is actually low right now as the ca is showing me the message. If you're not getting the message then you're probably ok.
If you're not getting any idling issues, or black smoke out the tailpipe on startup, then you likely don't have an injector issue.
For what it's worth to pull a couple plugs just to see their physical condition, I would do that next.
Any chance that you carry around more than one smart key on your person? Like if you had another vehicle that uses a smart key and you keep a key for it on you with the Lexus key.
No, in the house mine is the only smart key.
Driver
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 139
Likes: 7
From: Toronto
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 6,260
Likes: 1,752
From: Richmond Hill, Ontario, Canada
The keyfob battery is good. I can replace it for observation. The car usually tells me if the battery is low.
The car is completely stock. Nothing has been changed in the car since I bought it from the showroom.
I use this new OEM Lexus injector cleaner every 10K and when the car had bad fuel pump the symptoms got worse. So in a way that helped me diagnose the problem easily. But I have noticed now that whenever the car is on the injector cleaner, the hard start become more frequent. Do you think it points to injector issues?
I opened the hood up the other day to hear the clicking of the injectors. From the click it seemed the injectors are fine. Moreover, there are no funny smell, no engine hesitation and idling is perfect. The car runs nearly perfect. Just this hard start that keeps me worried because the dealers here are thieves.
What do you think? I can only be sure by having the injector and spark plugs checked.
The car is completely stock. Nothing has been changed in the car since I bought it from the showroom.
I use this new OEM Lexus injector cleaner every 10K and when the car had bad fuel pump the symptoms got worse. So in a way that helped me diagnose the problem easily. But I have noticed now that whenever the car is on the injector cleaner, the hard start become more frequent. Do you think it points to injector issues?
I opened the hood up the other day to hear the clicking of the injectors. From the click it seemed the injectors are fine. Moreover, there are no funny smell, no engine hesitation and idling is perfect. The car runs nearly perfect. Just this hard start that keeps me worried because the dealers here are thieves.
What do you think? I can only be sure by having the injector and spark plugs checked.
Driver
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 139
Likes: 7
From: Toronto
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 6,260
Likes: 1,752
From: Richmond Hill, Ontario, Canada
Hey there,
I did a comprehensive fuel delivery system diagnosis. Thats how the faulty fuel pump and fuel pressure regulator was caught. After replacing them the problem still persists. Last month I have asked checked for the fuel pressure again and the gauge reading was normal all the way through in different conditions (esp. morning readings). Therefore, I can confidently say the fuel delivery system is definitely not the problem.
I did a comprehensive fuel delivery system diagnosis. Thats how the faulty fuel pump and fuel pressure regulator was caught. After replacing them the problem still persists. Last month I have asked checked for the fuel pressure again and the gauge reading was normal all the way through in different conditions (esp. morning readings). Therefore, I can confidently say the fuel delivery system is definitely not the problem.
The only other possibility is if there is a loss of pressure from an injector(s) that are not closing properly when the vehicle shuts off.
But then the vehicle would have other symptoms that would overshadow the extended crank...i.e. rough idle after starting, possible stalling too, and black smoke out the tailpipe...both of which were confirmed not to be happening.
Then there is this anomaly of the theft deterrent seemingly having an effect on the condition...which I couldn't even begin to explain why.
And by checking the plugs I'm not really suggesting they are bad, more so fouled...meaning that they are physically capable of firing, but due to buildup on the tips (abnormal buildup), they may struggle to produce a good spark initially when the vehicle is starting, but after a few fires the spark is good enough for the vehicle to start and run properly. It's easy to just pull a couple, or all, the plugs and do a visual inspection.
The theft deterrent thing is still a head-scratcher though.
Driver
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 139
Likes: 7
From: Toronto
Checking the fuel pressure one more time to be absolutely sure isn't a bad idea, but considering that all the parts in the tank have been changed and they have monitored pressures in various conditions, then it's very unlikely it's a fuel issue.
The only other possibility is if there is a loss of pressure from an injector(s) that are not closing properly when the vehicle shuts off.
But then the vehicle would have other symptoms that would overshadow the extended crank...i.e. rough idle after starting, possible stalling too, and black smoke out the tailpipe...both of which were confirmed not to be happening.
Then there is this anomaly of the theft deterrent seemingly having an effect on the condition...which I couldn't even begin to explain why.
And by checking the plugs I'm not really suggesting they are bad, more so fouled...meaning that they are physically capable of firing, but due to buildup on the tips (abnormal buildup), they may struggle to produce a good spark initially when the vehicle is starting, but after a few fires the spark is good enough for the vehicle to start and run properly. It's easy to just pull a couple, or all, the plugs and do a visual inspection.
The theft deterrent thing is still a head-scratcher though.
The only other possibility is if there is a loss of pressure from an injector(s) that are not closing properly when the vehicle shuts off.
But then the vehicle would have other symptoms that would overshadow the extended crank...i.e. rough idle after starting, possible stalling too, and black smoke out the tailpipe...both of which were confirmed not to be happening.
Then there is this anomaly of the theft deterrent seemingly having an effect on the condition...which I couldn't even begin to explain why.
And by checking the plugs I'm not really suggesting they are bad, more so fouled...meaning that they are physically capable of firing, but due to buildup on the tips (abnormal buildup), they may struggle to produce a good spark initially when the vehicle is starting, but after a few fires the spark is good enough for the vehicle to start and run properly. It's easy to just pull a couple, or all, the plugs and do a visual inspection.
The theft deterrent thing is still a head-scratcher though.
Are fuel injectors likely to leak on these cars?
At 100k km won't be a bad idea to change plugs if they were not changed already
Last edited by Waffles17; Sep 5, 2020 at 09:24 AM.
Thread Starter
10th Gear
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 13
Likes: 1
From: QA
1. Spark Plugs
2. Fuel Pressure
Moreover, I will run a bumper-to-bumper check to see if there is anything else that I can get fixed by the warranty. Is there anything else you guys suggest I should check? Any other specifics on the fuel delivery system? or the injectors?
Please let me know.
Thanks you!
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Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 6,260
Likes: 1,752
From: Richmond Hill, Ontario, Canada
I think I did read some posts about the early 3IS having some injector issues, but the symptoms were well beyond an extended crank...like it was blatantly obvious.
Driver
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 139
Likes: 7
From: Toronto
The likelihood of an injector leaking is very slim, but nothing is impossible...it's just not a known issue.
I think I did read some posts about the early 3IS having some injector issues, but the symptoms were well beyond an extended crank...like it was blatantly obvious.
I think I did read some posts about the early 3IS having some injector issues, but the symptoms were well beyond an extended crank...like it was blatantly obvious.
Let's rule out the plugs first, as it's the easiest. Also check the gaps for the plugs while at it. Wrong gaps can do wonders
Thread Starter
10th Gear
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 13
Likes: 1
From: QA
Exactly. U would probably have a fuel smell, higher fuel consumption, the short term fuel trim would be higher, probably black smoke, and so on.
Let's rule out the plugs first, as it's the easiest. Also check the gaps for the plugs while at it. Wrong gaps can do wonders
Let's rule out the plugs first, as it's the easiest. Also check the gaps for the plugs while at it. Wrong gaps can do wonders
is that mild vibration at 600rpm normal? The vibration I felt was on the seat and on the steering wheel. It was an one off thing. The car usually idles around 800rpm
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 6,260
Likes: 1,752
From: Richmond Hill, Ontario, Canada
I just disconnected the battery for 15 mins and connected it again. Then I started the car. Few moments later I had a very mild vibrations at the idle. Then I took the car for a test drive and the idle seems to have gone away. I will check again when I drive to work tomorrow and observe.
is that mild vibration at 600rpm normal? The vibration I felt was on the seat and on the steering wheel. It was an one off thing. The car usually idles around 800rpm
is that mild vibration at 600rpm normal? The vibration I felt was on the seat and on the steering wheel. It was an one off thing. The car usually idles around 800rpm
Have you checked the condition of the throttle body? The carbon buildup around the throttle flap.
Driver
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 55
Likes: 22
From: Tennessee
I wouldn't be concerned with any abnormalities after starting engine soon after the battery was disconnected.
The one and hopefully last time I disconnected the battery for throttle body cleaning, my engine started, but stopped soon after. Then it restarted without issues.
I like the idea of pulling a spark plug or two and check condition.
The one and hopefully last time I disconnected the battery for throttle body cleaning, my engine started, but stopped soon after. Then it restarted without issues.
I like the idea of pulling a spark plug or two and check condition.
Rookie
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 87
Likes: 35
From: Tennessee
There was a recall earlier this year from Toyota/Lexus on certain model fuel pumps. Your car isn't on the list, but if the replacement fuel pump corresponds to a "recalled" pump, you may still have a bad pump. The symptoms you're having don't really correspond with the issues with those bad fuel pumps but I would still check with your service department and make sure the replacement pump that was installed isn't on that recall list - just to rule it out.
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 853
Likes: 175
From: Ontario
I just disconnected the battery for 15 mins and connected it again. Then I started the car. Few moments later I had a very mild vibrations at the idle. Then I took the car for a test drive and the idle seems to have gone away. I will check again when I drive to work tomorrow and observe.
is that mild vibration at 600rpm normal? The vibration I felt was on the seat and on the steering wheel. It was an one off thing. The car usually idles around 800rpm
is that mild vibration at 600rpm normal? The vibration I felt was on the seat and on the steering wheel. It was an one off thing. The car usually idles around 800rpm