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what??? I went to a Lexus dealer in Ottawa and I paid $340ish taxes included for a transmission/transfer case fluid change & front and rear diff fluid change.
Coolant & spark plugs not due till something like 7 years/160,000km...I got engine & cabin filters for $50 online and put them in myself. What else can you service?
should be changed every couple of years regardless of mileage, I was quoted 125+ tax from Lexus dealer, 80-100$ from independent garages. Went with an independent for $80 + fluid.
what??? I went to a Lexus dealer in Ottawa and I paid $340ish taxes included for a transmission/transfer case fluid change & front and rear diff fluid change.
Coolant & spark plugs not due till something like 7 years/160,000km...I got engine & cabin filters for $50 online and put them in myself. What else can you service?
Between two of the Lexus dealers, it was approximately:
As I said, after researching I had them do the $200 maintenance and inspection, and got my own intake and cabin filters, out for under $250. Front brakes need to be done, for which they would charge $175 labour just to swap out pads and rotors so I'm going to do it myself.
By the sounds of it, they simply changed your fluids without any flushing, but even then it would still have been less than what these guys likely would have charged me. From what I figure (and what the service manual says), all that's really necessary/recommended are the first two services, alternating, per year. Then the brake fluid every two years, plugs at 100,000kms, and coolant at 160,000kms. What I saved on that initial service alone covers the next 3 years now, and that's if I take it back to the dealer instead of going elsewhere.
As I said, after researching I had them do the $200 maintenance and inspection, and got my own intake and cabin filters, out for under $250. Front brakes need to be done, for which they would charge $175 labour just to swap out pads and rotors so I'm going to do it myself.
By the sounds of it, they simply changed your fluids without any flushing, but even then it would still have been less than what these guys likely would have charged me. From what I figure (and what the service manual says), all that's really necessary/recommended are the first two services, alternating, per year. Then the brake fluid every two years, plugs at 100,000kms, and coolant at 160,000kms. What I saved on that initial service alone covers the next 3 years now, and that's if I take it back to the dealer instead of going elsewhere.
You only flush brakes and coolant...
You CANNOT flush this transmission, their are no external lines to tap into (as per master Toyota tech) it is a drain and refill procedure that changes approximately 25% of the transmission fluid.. hence why Its recommend doing multiple so you actually replace the whole fluid..,
you do NOT flush a diff, it is also a drain and refill procedure.. so yes, Lexus did everything for me they are going to do for anyone getting those things done.
I never bring car to dealer unless it’s warranty work.
the only reason I did the trans fluid and diff changes their was because I just bought the car and I wanted them to comb through it and tell me if anything was wrong that my inspection mechanic maybe missed, there wasn’t. But they literally took me in the back an I got to ask the mechanic hundreds of questions about EVERYTHING, things like what do you really think of the lifetime fluid, maitenace, questions about the engine, tranny, Avs etc...
I read virtually every 3is thread on this forum over the course of 6 months before I bought the vehicle, that’s how thorough I am.
master tech old me the lifetime fluid is dark by 30-40k km and I was right for changing it, he saved me a sample at my request and I literally got to hold and look at it...he also told me despite my car being 56,000km mileage changing the diffs like I was is a good idea, he said fluid slightly old but not bad and that the magnet was covered in metal shavings (from the initial break in period, happens with transmission to)
Anyone who does work like that the dealership on a regular basis is oblivious & naive.
My independent mechanic, a master Toyota tech of 25 years charges me 30$ labor to change front and rear diff (I supply the fluid it’s cheap) The job is simpler than an oil change and takes about the same time.
50$ labor for coolant flush (I supply the fluid it’s like 26$ for 2 jugs)
80$ for a brake flush, about 80$ labor an hour to change pads/rotors.
I’m doing my 2nd transmission fluid change...first time with him next week for 120$.. he will be changing the transfluid and giving me a pressurized fuel system cleaning.
I highly recommend people read and educate themselves on every aspect of the vehicle, that way you know when and when not to go to the dealer, when your getting ripped off etc...one of the reasons i get such good pricing is because i literally will read about something to the point of excess, and I walk in the dealership knowing more than the service advisors and even some mechanics when it comes to the 3is...
find a good, honest, mechanic and things like coolant flush, brake flush, trans fluid change, diff fluid changes can be done for literally 1/4 of the price of the STEALERSHIP.
Are you in Toronto or the gta? Heres my mechanics ad for the the tune up he’s doing for me, i get 30$ off because i supply the transfluid...dealership quoted 350$ for the work. You can find guys like this in EVERY city, just gotta look for them.
Sounds like you found some good mechanics at a good price! I used to work at a shop, 2 man operation but even I am on the lookout for a real legit mechanic at a good price in the areas I'm local to. I cant hang with doing too much of that work anymore.
And you can flush this transmission. Just need the machine with some special rigging as it was described to me. Most shops dont have the machine (most shops dont flush a sealed trans).
Thanks Nick, good stuff. I just spoke with a mechanic at our machine shop at work, and he recommends against flushing anything, even the radiator.
So we'd presume without a dipstick that the transmission would be the same as the diffs and transfer case, in that you fill them until you see liquid come out because they position the fill hole at the correct height? Did your mechanic say the tranny fluid is typically dark by 30-40K, and if so, does that necessarily mean it needs replacing? Also, how was he able to see/access the magnets in the units -- just through the drain plugs? Without opening up the unit, I imagine there's no way to clean out the particles, although it's maybe not even necessary? As expected, a simple drain-and-replace should be cheap -- cost of fluid and a bit of time. None of this $300+ flushing business.
Thanks Nick, good stuff. I just spoke with a mechanic at our machine shop at work, and he recommends against flushing anything, even the radiator.
So we'd presume without a dipstick that the transmission would be the same as the diffs and transfer case, in that you fill them until you see liquid come out because they position the fill hole at the correct height? Did your mechanic say the tranny fluid is typically dark by 30-40K, and if so, does that necessarily mean it needs replacing? Also, how was he able to see/access the magnets in the units -- just through the drain plugs? Without opening up the unit, I imagine there's no way to clean out the particles, although it's maybe not even necessary? As expected, a simple drain-and-replace should be cheap -- cost of fluid and a bit of time. None of this $300+ flushing business.
transmission has an overflow bolt, with a straw in it... when transmission temp is right, 103 degrees or so, assuming good level it will start to drip, when it drips to 1 drop a second you’re good. Thousands of YouTube video of ppl changing sealed Toyota trans in like 20-30 min, you could show one to a mechanic and ask for a quote, it’s only a 30 min job. As far as fluid, there has been a ton of black lab oil analysis that have been done on the Toyota ws trans fluid and I’ve seen results where the fluid is shot at 30k miles and I’ve seen one where it was decent at 176k miles... it’s 100% dependent on conditions...
an old lady, who never rips it, lives in a non extreme weather city & never tows is going to have good fluid at almost any mileage... now a young guy, who rips it, lives in an extreme climate and subjects the transfluid to heat and abuse is gonna wanna do wayyyy more frequent changes or switch to a synthetic automatic transmission fluid likes AMSOIL, apparently at 180 degrees the Toyota fluid starts to turn into garbage where as AMSOIL says there’s is good till 225 degrees before it starts to degrade.
So for me, I drive fast, I live in Canada where it’s a 100 degree difference between summer and winter my fluid was dark and starting to thicken at 56,000km... I did 1 change with Lexus, they claimed 3.5 quarts came out, total trans capacity is around 10...I’m doing 1 next week with AMSOIL, than I’ll do another one in the summer, that way by 70,000km I’ll have approximately 90% “fresh” trans fluid.
where do you live? What city? Google search Toyota tech in ur city and go there for anything non warranty.
also google and youtube search “Toyota Ws vs Amsoil” it will make you a believer, I’ve read forums from hundreds of different toyota forums, everyone says the same thing...there fuel economy is up, there car shifts smoother & they will never use Toyota ws fluid again. Lexus cares about $$$ only. They want that transmission to get you through warranty than have it break so they can sell you a new one for 5k.
i figure 30 min labor from an independent mechanic, so around 40-50$ where I live plus 20$ in fluid once a year is a cheap assurance for something like a transmission. I plan on driving this car till it breaks.
Sounds like you found some good mechanics at a good price! I used to work at a shop, 2 man operation but even I am on the lookout for a real legit mechanic at a good price in the areas I'm local to. I cant hang with doing too much of that work anymore.
And you can flush this transmission. Just need the machine with some special rigging as it was described to me. Most shops dont have the machine (most shops dont flush a sealed trans).
I get good prices because I read soooo much before doing anything, so I know exactly how long a certain job should take/what’s involved....mechanics hear me taking about stuff the average person knows nothing about so they assume I know my stuff and don’t overcharge me. If I know a job is 30 min, and mechanic quotes me 1 hour I’ll say no than explain why, they then say ok and boom that’s it. I’m not a mechanic, just read a lot, but knowledge is power.
my dealership has a note on my file saying to not sell me anything, why?
because when they do I call them out, hard.
Where are you? What city? Find a mechanic that’s good and explain to him that you’ll pay him cash but you’re not getting charged more time than what you know the job takes. So a 30 min job you’ll pay half his hourly rate etc... I got a serpentine belt changed for $25! Was quoted 80-100 by 5 places, I called one and said I know it’s a 15 min job I’ll pay you 1/4 your hourly rate and he said no problem. Just be upfront, say i watched 10 vids on youtube and joe blow is doing it in “x” amount of time in his driveway in half the time you’re quoting..,watch how fast they change there price. My mechanic charges me by the 1/4 hour, so a 15 min job is 25% of his hourly rate, a 30 min job is 1/2 an hour rate etc... build a relationship with a mechanic, me and mine have literally gone for beers after a job.
And I’m sure some shops could flush it but it’s a terrible idea. Flushing causing debris that’s settled to unsettle and go through the transmission, often causing catastrophic engine failure. Don’t FLUSH! Drain & refills only on our trans! Check these out...
I'm still mostly DIY also rather well researched but I agree, walk into a shop having some idea as to what is being done.
I prefer the satisfaction and assurance it was done right with proper materials. Not that I dont screw up from time to time.
I bought my car having just been waxed, and with new oil change. Guess what I did within 24hrs? Detailed and changed the oil.
For others out there, just know that many jobs are quoted/charged based on what the computer tells them. Computer says it's a 3 hour job...well. They're not trying to necessarily over charge because some guy on YouTube did it in 2 hours. Many well established shops go "by the book" (even though they may be done it 2 hours as well )
...You CANNOT flush this transmission, their are no external lines to tap into (as per master Toyota tech) it is a drain and refill procedure that changes approximately 25% of the transmission fluid.. hence why Its recommend doing multiple so you actually replace the whole fluid...
I had to check into this since I haven't crawled under the front of the car looking for tranny lines...and not about to with the snow out.
Nick is correct...or his mechanic is correct...the transmission cooler has been moved to the side of the transmission, and is cooled using engine coolant.
So yes, there are no traditional transmission lines that go to the front of the vehicle for a cooler, seperate or in the rad.
As for the flushing, I'm sure it can be done...aftermarket vendors, I'm sure, have found a way to hook up a flush machine.
And I'm not looking to start a debate about flushing. Everyone can do what they want to there own vehicle, and I'm good with that.
And I know that everyone likes to rag on dealer pricing...so let me be the one to at least stand in their defense.
Answer these questions for yourself, and then you will understand why they are priced higher:
How big is a dealership? How big is the shop you take your car?
How much manufacturer training does your independent mechanic have? How much manufacturer training does the dealer mechanic have?
Does your mechanic offer a shuttle service from and back to the dealer when your car is done?
Does your mechanic clean you vehicle inside and out before returning it to you?
Does your mechanic have ALLLLLLL the necessary equipment to service any part of your vehicle? I can't stress the ALLLLLLLLL any better
Once again, not looking to start a debate or argument...you believe what you want to believe about the dealer...that's your opinion and I'm not about to tell you you're wrong.
My only point is, it costs money to keep an entire dealership running...parts, service, and sales.
All this is not paid for by magic pixie dust...it actually costs real money...shocking, I know!
So yeah, your mechanic doesn't have a sales department, or parts department (per say), nor a facility even close to the size of the dealership, therefore you would have to assume with a significantly reduced overhead cost, they should be able to offer you a better price on service.
And granted there are some ex-Toyota/Lexus techs out there with there own shop, but all the factory training stopped the day they left the dealer...so it's on them to keep themselves upgraded.
And as for the ALLLL tools comment...the dealership likely has a tool room/area with all the manufacturer SST's (Special Service Tools) that's likely more than $100K in value. Yeah...I'm pretty sure your mechanic doesn't have that...for every brand of vehicle he services...or even for one brand.
At the end of the day, the cost of doing business ultimately falls to the customer...us!
Rather than ragging on the dealer for trying to keep the doors open and the lights on...how about just saying you'd rather take your vehicle to your own mechanic.
There's no need to hate on the dealer, or the independent mechanic. Just make whatever choice is best for you and leave it at that.
Everyone is quick to refer to the dealership as the stealership...but no one has a nickname for the independent guy that rips you off...cause I'm sure that neeeeeeever happens...right?
Btw...there is an SST that is a dipstick for checking the transmission fluid level. I've only been recently aware of it, so I'm trying to find some more info on it.
It's supposed to be more accurate than using the overflow plug method.
Had a chance to compare the 2014 Highlander manual vs the 2014 IS manual. Here is what's in the Highlander supplemental manual: Note the diff. and tranny replacement intervals. Note the spark plug and brake fluid replacement intervals.
I checked to see if both vehicles use the same spark plugs...and they don't despite being the same family of engine.
The Highlander uses a Denso Iridium FK20HR11 - which has a single Ground electrode.
The IS uses a Denso Iridium FK20HBR11 - which has three Ground electrodes.
Outside of that all other specs for the plugs are the same. It's amazing what one extra letter in the part number makes that much difference.
Also interesting that the plug with the single ground electrode has a longer recommended service interval than the one with three ground electrodes.
You would think it would be opposite given the single electrode has only one point of wear, and the one with three has three points of wear.
The three electrodes should wear down at a slower rate than a single electrode, which you'd think would give it a longer service life.
There must be more to this explanation that I'm missing.
an old lady, who never rips it, lives in a non extreme weather city & never tows is going to have good fluid at almost any mileage... now a young guy, who rips it, lives in an extreme climate and subjects the transfluid to heat and abuse is gonna wanna do wayyyy more frequent changes or switch to a synthetic automatic transmission fluid likes AMSOIL, apparently at 180 degrees the Toyota fluid starts to turn into garbage where as AMSOIL says there’s is good till 225 degrees before it starts to degrade.
So for me, I drive fast, I live in Canada where it’s a 100 degree difference between summer and winter my fluid was dark and starting to thicken at 56,000km... I did 1 change with Lexus, they claimed 3.5 quarts came out, total trans capacity is around 10...I’m doing 1 next week with AMSOIL, than I’ll do another one in the summer, that way by 70,000km I’ll have approximately 90% “fresh” trans fluid.
where do you live? What city?
Sounds like we're rather on the same page. I wanted to go to Lexus for the first service, as it hadn't yet been inspected by Lexus when I bought it. Turns out everything was apparently fine, so if I go back it would be for Lexus-specific things that I'd want them to do in particular. And yes, I do intend to shop around to find a reliable mechanic I can trust. My former BMW guy for the last 9 years may even do, will have to discuss with him.
Regarding the car, it has been in Calgary for the first 4.5 years of its life, so certainly harsher conditions than it will be here in Vancouver (aside from rain). It was driven by a lawyer who evidently never saw a curb he didn't want to kiss, but assuming the brakes haven't been done yet (60,000kms) I would think it was fairly gently-driven. It's my daily driver and I don't intend to track it either, although I will be doing some bolt-ons. Considering all that, I think doing a check or replace on the trans/tc/diff fluids somewhere between 80-100K is probably a reasonable do, or even a gradual replacement on the trans as you suggested.
If the trans oil can only effectively be done 33% per time on a drain/refill process, I guess you're never fully changing it out because each time the new 1/3 is mixing with the old 2/3 so you're really just slowly diluting it. But the alternative seems to be doing a full change/flush right from the time you buy the car then continue to do it frequently. Likewise yeah, you could change your engine oil every 1000kms. Sure, the car would be in great shape and last indefinitely, but then where does practicality and cost factors kick in? From the comments out there, as long as you don't leave the thing a long time then decide to do a full flushing I think we're fine.
Had a chance to compare the 2014 Highlander manual vs the 2014 IS manual. Here is what's in the Highlander supplemental manual: Note the diff. and tranny replacement intervals.
So it's the same 6-speed transmission we have? Regardless, the guideline is that ONLY if you are towing do you need to change out the fluid, and even at that not until 6 years/96K. Considering the heavy use/strain involved, normalish use on our IS's should mean we can go way past that safely, even indefinitely, but again, there's zero harm at relatively minimal cost in simply replacing it along the way like Nick says. Worst thing appears to be not that it's never changed, but doing a flush after many years and miles without having ever changed it.
Originally Posted by Sasnuke
Note the spark plug and brake fluid replacement intervals.
So apparently Highlander brake fluid goes an extra year (3 versus 2) and plugs twice as long? Of course we're talking different automobiles, and while the Highlander has off-road capability the vast majority of owners will be more soccer-moms than weekend 4x4ers.
So it's the same 6-speed transmission we have? Regardless, the guideline is that ONLY if you are towing do you need to change out the fluid, and even at that not until 6 years/96K. Considering the heavy use/strain involved, normalish use on our IS's should mean we can go way past that safely, even indefinitely, but again, there's zero harm at relatively minimal cost in simply replacing it along the way like Nick says. Worst thing appears to be not that it's never changed, but doing a flush after many years and miles without having ever changed it.
So apparently Highlander brake fluid goes an extra year (3 versus 2) and plugs twice as long? Of course we're talking different automobiles, and while the Highlander has off-road capability the vast majority of owners will be more soccer-moms than weekend 4x4ers.
It's not the same tranny, but I'm just using it as a reference as to what another vehicle of the same year with a sealed tranny that uses WS fluid has recommended for it.
As for the brake fluid, it looks like Toyota is working of the average of 16,000kms equals 1 year.
So the Highlander recommends changing it at 3 years 48K, and the Lexus is 2 years 32K...so basically they are saying it can stay in longer in the Toyota...which really makes no sense since it's the same goddamn brake fluid. lol
Personally I lean towards changing it every 2 years, regardless of mileage.
Btw...I have done my transmission and diff fluids already at 50K kms. I have almost 53K kms now. The tech was able to get out 3L of hot tranny fluid...so basically 30% of the total volume.
Brake fluid was done at 25K kms when I got the car, which was 2.5 years ago. And when I did the brake conversion on the front (less than a year ago), i flushed the front lines.
I'll probably need rear brakes this year, so I'll flush the rear brakes then, and likely do the front again. Then that should be it until summer 2021 for brake fluid.
So how did your trans and diff fluids look, or did you/they examine them at all? As mentioned, I'll be doing my front brakes shortly so for next oil change/service in June I'll get the fluid done. The first owner had it serviced only at Lexus Calgary (even the new tires) so we have all the records, and it seems he went exactly according to the service guide -- alternated the two services every 6 months and did the brake fluid on schedule around 32K. He didn't do any of the "suggested" ones that the dealers here put forth.
It's long been considered good practice to do an early oil change from new, to get out any factory gunk and shavings, but it would seem the transaxle components may not require the same considering they have the magnets in them? Sure it wouldn't hurt, but I've never heard the suggestion of doing the same to them as with the engine oil.
02-14-19, 09:59 PM
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