Question for IS250 F Sport owners!
08-07-13, 09:03 AM
#1
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Question for IS250 F Sport owners!
Hi, basic question for you guys who have the IS250 F Sport. Do you ever feel like you are wanting more power?
The car is for my wife and she cant decide between the IS300h or the IS250 both in F Sport spec.
Bearing in mind she usually keeps her car for 5 years max, there is no significant difference between the 300h and the 250 taking into account road tax and petrol costs.
I drove the 300h and found it rather hesitant, like a diesel with turbo lag out on the road. This did not happen when I drove it earlier on a test track so i am confused and if the IS250 has adequate performance, we may get that instead.
Atm she drives a Mercedes C220 CDI, tonnes of torque but 0-60 in about 10 seconds, just in case that makes any difference.
The car is for my wife and she cant decide between the IS300h or the IS250 both in F Sport spec.
Bearing in mind she usually keeps her car for 5 years max, there is no significant difference between the 300h and the 250 taking into account road tax and petrol costs.
I drove the 300h and found it rather hesitant, like a diesel with turbo lag out on the road. This did not happen when I drove it earlier on a test track so i am confused and if the IS250 has adequate performance, we may get that instead.
Atm she drives a Mercedes C220 CDI, tonnes of torque but 0-60 in about 10 seconds, just in case that makes any difference.
08-07-13, 10:17 AM
#2
The power is fine. A lot of these guys on here make it seem like the IS250 feels like a Honda Civic in terms of speed. Not the case. In Sport mode it feels pretty quick. For me it has more than enough power for what its job is. A family hauler. If you are looking for a race car you probably wouldn't buy an IS 250/350 in the first place.
When I really feel the need for some power I drive my camaro.
When I really feel the need for some power I drive my camaro.
08-07-13, 11:00 AM
#3
The pursuit of F
Agreed with John510. Power is fine but this is so relative.
However, relative to what is available to you in the UK (since the 3.5L V6 is not available), the 2.5L V6 will feel more responsive than the hybrid powertrain simply because of that half to one second delay from the moment you press on the accelerator to when the power kicks in. This is due to the time the CVT spools up to the correct revs and the gas engine to engage alongside the electric power. I'm basing this on comparison to my previous IS 250 and my CT I own plus the brief time I had with a Camry Hybrid (same 2.5 Hybrid Synergy Drive as the 300h, just 20 hp less.). I also remember a throttle response "delay" with the RX 400h I owned but was not as long. Overall it feels like the power is released like a slingshot (i.e. turbo lag as you mentioned) - A little hesitant at first, then it surges well. It would be interesting to hear your feedback on your 450h if it's the same.
0-100km/hr, the V6 is also about a half second faster @ 8 secs vs about 8.5 for the 300h so a little faster too overall besides the improved throttle response. Engine sound will also be better with the V6 though I hear the "fake" sound from the 300h you can enable inside the cabin is pretty good.
For me, if the 300h was available in N. America, without a doubt that's where my money would go since it would save me several $ a month on gas (v6 takes premium fuel). I value this over performance as it is my commuter car to work and this is one of the things I will miss with the CT. However, if operating (fuel) costs is not an issue and your wife is used the the instant torque/response from the MB diesel engine, your best bet for her is the V6.
Keep us posted!
However, relative to what is available to you in the UK (since the 3.5L V6 is not available), the 2.5L V6 will feel more responsive than the hybrid powertrain simply because of that half to one second delay from the moment you press on the accelerator to when the power kicks in. This is due to the time the CVT spools up to the correct revs and the gas engine to engage alongside the electric power. I'm basing this on comparison to my previous IS 250 and my CT I own plus the brief time I had with a Camry Hybrid (same 2.5 Hybrid Synergy Drive as the 300h, just 20 hp less.). I also remember a throttle response "delay" with the RX 400h I owned but was not as long. Overall it feels like the power is released like a slingshot (i.e. turbo lag as you mentioned) - A little hesitant at first, then it surges well. It would be interesting to hear your feedback on your 450h if it's the same.
0-100km/hr, the V6 is also about a half second faster @ 8 secs vs about 8.5 for the 300h so a little faster too overall besides the improved throttle response. Engine sound will also be better with the V6 though I hear the "fake" sound from the 300h you can enable inside the cabin is pretty good.
For me, if the 300h was available in N. America, without a doubt that's where my money would go since it would save me several $ a month on gas (v6 takes premium fuel). I value this over performance as it is my commuter car to work and this is one of the things I will miss with the CT. However, if operating (fuel) costs is not an issue and your wife is used the the instant torque/response from the MB diesel engine, your best bet for her is the V6.
Keep us posted!
Last edited by corradoMR2; 08-07-13 at 11:30 AM.
08-07-13, 03:40 PM
#4
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
The power is fine. A lot of these guys on here make it seem like the IS250 feels like a Honda Civic in terms of speed. Not the case. In Sport mode it feels pretty quick. For me it has more than enough power for what its job is. A family hauler. If you are looking for a race car you probably wouldn't buy an IS 250/350 in the first place.
When I really feel the need for some power I drive my camaro.
When I really feel the need for some power I drive my camaro.
Im currently trying to find one near me thats available to test drive. Dealers have an army of 300h's but no 250's. The MB is getting old now and causing too many problems as well as sounding too loud after getting into it from the RXh.
Last edited by rayaans; 08-07-13 at 03:46 PM.
08-07-13, 07:10 PM
#5
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I bought an IS 250 F sport, because I liked the looks of the car and the features. But at the end of the day this will still be my daily driver (the car cant get here soon enough....). For me personally I couldn't see spending the extra $'s for the 350 F sport (the 250 F sport fit my budget). I think i'll be happy with the 250 F sport, but then again this is my first Lexus, and I'm so excited just to finally have a Lexus (maybe my second Lexus will be a 350?).
08-08-13, 05:32 AM
#7
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Well the IS250 has a 0-60 time very close to my RX450h so it shouldnt be that bad. Really need to bring one home for the weekend and have an extended test drive
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08-08-13, 06:02 AM
#8
Between 250 and 300h I'd say 250 is more fun to drive than 300h. I've mention the lag in acceleration many times before, I really don't like it. And if you want to save fuel and still want to stay with Lexus, get a base CT.
08-08-13, 06:10 AM
#9
Hi, basic question for you guys who have the IS250 F Sport. Do you ever feel like you are wanting more power?
The car is for my wife and she cant decide between the IS300h or the IS250 both in F Sport spec.
Bearing in mind she usually keeps her car for 5 years max, there is no significant difference between the 300h and the 250 taking into account road tax and petrol costs.
I drove the 300h and found it rather hesitant, like a diesel with turbo lag out on the road. This did not happen when I drove it earlier on a test track so i am confused and if the IS250 has adequate performance, we may get that instead.
Atm she drives a Mercedes C220 CDI, tonnes of torque but 0-60 in about 10 seconds, just in case that makes any difference.
The car is for my wife and she cant decide between the IS300h or the IS250 both in F Sport spec.
Bearing in mind she usually keeps her car for 5 years max, there is no significant difference between the 300h and the 250 taking into account road tax and petrol costs.
I drove the 300h and found it rather hesitant, like a diesel with turbo lag out on the road. This did not happen when I drove it earlier on a test track so i am confused and if the IS250 has adequate performance, we may get that instead.
Atm she drives a Mercedes C220 CDI, tonnes of torque but 0-60 in about 10 seconds, just in case that makes any difference.
what are the residuals going to be on IS250 in 5 years? I wouldnt ever get IS250 due to horrible residuals here in continental europe...
08-08-13, 06:33 AM
#10
It's too early to know the resale values on 300h. Look at the CT and GS, they are seems pretty hard to sell. I have seen many of them on sale many month now. So it is not only 250 that is hard to sell. The only Lexus that is easy to sell is RX.
08-08-13, 07:42 AM
#11
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The lag in the 300h is there because it takes time to rev up the engine. But is the time from you floor the pedal to you get the push really that much longer than in a non-hybrid? It take some time to downshift and rev that engine as well. But maybe since that push is more brutal it feels longer in the hybrid?
In any case, it doesn't bother me much
In any case, it doesn't bother me much
08-08-13, 10:49 AM
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I had the same reservations about the notion of a hybrid actually being sporting (and basically cool).
But let me tell you about this great car I have...
You stick the shifter in 'S', the mode in 'Sport' and use the paddles on the steering wheel and it is a true sports car (what 'lag'?!); you stick the shifter in 'D', the mode in 'Normal' and use the cruise control liberally and it's a luxury cruiser; and I can drive around my neighbourhood, move the car around a car park, or reverse it up the driveway to get at the garage without using an ounce of petrol.
Oh yeah, and I basically pay no road tax, I do 750 miles between fill-ups, my service costs are low and my residuals are likely high.
It's called the Lexus IS 300h. Go buy one!
But let me tell you about this great car I have...
You stick the shifter in 'S', the mode in 'Sport' and use the paddles on the steering wheel and it is a true sports car (what 'lag'?!); you stick the shifter in 'D', the mode in 'Normal' and use the cruise control liberally and it's a luxury cruiser; and I can drive around my neighbourhood, move the car around a car park, or reverse it up the driveway to get at the garage without using an ounce of petrol.
Oh yeah, and I basically pay no road tax, I do 750 miles between fill-ups, my service costs are low and my residuals are likely high.
It's called the Lexus IS 300h. Go buy one!
08-08-13, 11:08 AM
#13
The lag in the 300h is there because it takes time to rev up the engine. But is the time from you floor the pedal to you get the push really that much longer than in a non-hybrid? It take some time to downshift and rev that engine as well. But maybe since that push is more brutal it feels longer in the hybrid?
In any case, it doesn't bother me much
In any case, it doesn't bother me much
with Prius, you would slightly touch the gas pedal before actually overtaking, to wake the car up where it would be ready to respond when you actually press gas.... I guess thats what paddles do here, make sure you are not cruising at 1000 rpm :-)
in general, you get used to how it works, just like with diesels, you learn how to work them... when you are cruising in 320d ED at 1000 rpm, you are not going to fly when you press gas pedal, you will have to shift down to 3rd and then fly off.
08-08-13, 11:44 AM
#14
The lag is not there for saving fuel. It just that the HSD works like that. It takes a second to combine the power from the Atkinson engine and the electric motor via the planetary gear. You can't get rid of the lag from standstill and at slow speed in Sport mode + paddler. It has to wake up the petrol engine, combine the power and then take off.
Once you run out of battery power, which you do, after a few accelerations or if you have been in a stop and go traffic for a while, it relies on the 4 cylinder petrol engine only, before the battery charges up. The acceleration will be decreased before the battery has enough juice to boost the acceleration.
So yes, you will have to adapt to how it works to get most out of it.
Just curious, why did Lexus remove the B mode from IS300h and GS450h?
Once you run out of battery power, which you do, after a few accelerations or if you have been in a stop and go traffic for a while, it relies on the 4 cylinder petrol engine only, before the battery charges up. The acceleration will be decreased before the battery has enough juice to boost the acceleration.
So yes, you will have to adapt to how it works to get most out of it.
Just curious, why did Lexus remove the B mode from IS300h and GS450h?
08-08-13, 03:48 PM
#15
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Right guys, heres something to spice it up a little. The car is definitely going to be an F Sport and my lady cant drive a manual, damn, she doesnt even know how paddles work so its useless for her.
The main problem is, that I have driven 2 different IS300h's. One on a track where i noticed no lag, and another on the road where lag was there. My RXh is instant, so this pissed me off pretty badly as i was expecting the same, especially after driving the ISh on a track prior to release. Is the lag affecting only some cars? or all?
I will also be driving the car in the winter months (wife keeps crashing rwd cars into walls in snow)
and depreciation isnt an issue and neither is the road tax. She wants a Lexus, says other cars cant match the refinement but also wants something fun to drive. The GS is too big, CT is not to her tastes and its too small for the family so IS250 would be ok then?
The main problem is, that I have driven 2 different IS300h's. One on a track where i noticed no lag, and another on the road where lag was there. My RXh is instant, so this pissed me off pretty badly as i was expecting the same, especially after driving the ISh on a track prior to release. Is the lag affecting only some cars? or all?
I will also be driving the car in the winter months (wife keeps crashing rwd cars into walls in snow)
and depreciation isnt an issue and neither is the road tax. She wants a Lexus, says other cars cant match the refinement but also wants something fun to drive. The GS is too big, CT is not to her tastes and its too small for the family so IS250 would be ok then?