rayaans

IanP, I meant most of the people who buy Lexus are not too concerned about the costs mainly because, 1- Lexus has poor resale values in the UK compared to the likes of the germans, 2 - for motorway miles, hybrids have poor efficiency, 3 - The petrol engines are seriously outdated, both performance and efficiency wise which leads to more costs, 4 - Lexus doesnt have a specific wheel colour code meaning the OTHER 3 have to be painted in order to match!!

I cant comment on finance and business purchases as i am self employed + always buy my cars outright.

To be fair though, servicing was actually quite cheap. I think the main reason Lexus hasnt lifted off in the UK properly is because people are running out of money, its much cheaper for them to drive a BMW 320d than it would be to drive round an IS300h. The diesels can achieve close to their quoted mpg in normal driving, whereas hybrids cannot and the 320d is also faster, even though its more economical which is something I dont understand with Lexus. Its like their engines never evolve or get better. Theyre still stuck in 2005.

Mr Bond

Honestly, you were driving a democar, a completely new car that everybody drives like they stole it. I had the IS 250 for two years and got about 12 l/100 km in urban driving and about 8,5 combined under my 35 000 km with that car. And i´m not Michael Schuhmacher in any way. The IS 300h can probably never reach those number no matter how hard you drive it.

spwolf

if you buy IS300h and drive it like crazy, it will likely get better consumption than if you drive IS250 without touching the gas pedal at all, especially urban where you will get -2l on IS250 regardless.

spwolf

320d will get around 50% worse consumption in real life than stated... I dont know how you guys drive in UK, it is obviously special.

IS300h is state of the art engine that germans are trying really hard to catch up to :-)

Heck, as someone else said, IS250 is not even being offered in most of the Europe.

keyframe13

It is not being offered because European market is much more sophisticated and you cannot offer crap in there. IS250 would not sell. It;s a crappy V6 with poor gas mileage and problems.

UpSideDown

Yeah, the car is brand new and just a few people have been driving it. And of course it will get better mpg than 250. Even the 7,3L/100km combined from my test drive is better than mine. But the different is not that much. And like I said before, if I drive it in a hybrid fuel saving driving style, I'll be bored.

UpSideDown

Yeah right.

And if you liv in big cities in Europe, the public transport (trains, subways, busses) is the best way to go if you want to save money and be green. Why buy an expensive car for sitting in traffic everyday?

UpSideDown

Well, it still drives better than hybrid version.

We do not get the 350 here so without the 250 the only fun car left in Lexus's program is IS-F. And it costs over 70,000 EURO! Lexus is trying to get rid of the "Old man's car" image. I don't think they will make it with the hybrid models and without offering the 350 that fills the gap between 250 and IS-F in their program. Thats just my thoughs.

keyframe13

Any gas car drives better than hybrid versions.

UpSideDown

There you have it. Thanks for confirming that.

rayaans

Wouldnt go that far. The GS450h F Sport is much more interesting and fun to drive than the GS350 F Sport. Also, Id go far enough to say my RX450h F Sport is better than the RX350 which I drove in Europe. There is so much power it puts the petrol engines to shame. It doesnt show on paper but it feels so much stronger in reality. Like a big V8 under the hood.

UpSideDown

I though he was talking about IS hybrid..

to me the hybrid makes a lot more sense on RX or GS/LS

IanP

There is a separate question there about why Lexus hasn't taken off in the UK.

Firstly, compared to Continental Europe, it has! It has its own dealer network here, which is important.

Secondly, the car is not the problem for me (though yes, I cannot see really why the mass market would opt for a petrol IS250 ahead of the Germans). To me, the problem is more to do with *choice*.

Audi not only offers 50 different models, but it offers them with options in almost any combination. Want Sat-Nav with no back-up camera? No problem. Heated seats without leather? Not a bother. White colour with regular trim? Why not. Sunroof on a base model? Of course.

It so happens Lexus' trim levels on the new IS stacked up for me. But for many others - noting that the Germans are the default option (in other words, in soccer terminology, Lexus needs a win not just a draw) - they won't. I really think that's a problem in a society increasingly used to getting precise choice.

rayaans

Oh right I see. Its always rather weird getting into my wife's diesel and feeling it shift. No shifting with the hybrid and the diesel noise is so annoying for me now. Before I wasnt too bothered about it but now I prefer the quietness of hybrids and the refinement also.

Hmm I think the IS250 would definitely be a winner if it had more power and possibly more fuel efficiency (I dont care about this to be perfectly honest). Im sure they could have squeezed out atleast 250hp from the engine and alot more torque than it has at the moment. If this was the case, it would definitely be the IS250 for my wife.

Although, to be perfectly honest, the IS300h will be more than enough anyway. European roads are too crammed and small to use all the power. Especially the number of bumps and traffic lights around here.

IanP - Its kind of a good thing that Lexus hasnt taken off in a way. Makes them much more exclusive. Also, Audi dont allow you to have coloured seats on the S Line models unless you fork out a good £3k which is frankly quite stupid. Atleast Lexus allows different colours on the F Sport models. The red seats on the RX looks pretty good but in my opinion is not done properly, armrest is still black as is the seat backs. Lexus is probably better for buyers who tend to put on £10k worth of options like me, my RX was £54k sticker price but the equivalent BMW X5 and Audi Q7 were close to £58k. And dont even get me started on the RR Sport, was a good £60k for the same options. Im sure the Q7 didnt even have the option of a heads up display and neither of the cars had the easy exit and entry feature of the RX or the little details like the windows closing slowly towards the end.

IanP

Yes, certainly one of the "appeals" of the Lexus brand is that it's outstanding in every sense. It was actually that, rather than the hybrid model, which drew me to the brand. Yet, conversely, it's just about common enough that even people who know little about cars are familiar with it.