Acura TL SH-AWD vs IS-350 AWD
#31
Advanced
Thread Starter
Screw acura site, go to truecar.com, i can buy it for 38.5 today. Is350 would have to have all packages and mark levonson system. This is actual dealer quote too
#32
Engine layout in the IS/GS is longitudinal so weight is dispersed slightly better & less noise heavy compared to FWD architecture. The arrangement of it is similar to RWD performance car.
Infiniti & Nissan GT-R ATTESSA-ETS awd systems are similar to the lexus rear biased AWD, only difference is 0F/100R, when slippage is detected, power distrubtion can reach 50F/50R. Engine layout is front midship longitudinal, so majority of the engine/tranny sits behind the front axle, which gives their cars 53/47 front to rear weight standing still, under hard acceleration, weight becomes 50/50 which is ideal according to nissan engineers. It's what makes the GT-R what it is (note: R35 GT-R has a transaxle transmission, means the transmission is on the rear axle compared to transmission up front like the rest of infiniti's lineup).
Acura on the other hand is the opposite, front wheel biased at 70 front/30 rear, power transfer can be delivered up to 70% rear, to help the car oversteer. The engine arrangement is transversed, which means the engine either sits in front of the front axle or above it (typical engine layout for front wheel drive), so with a vehicle based on FWD platform, understeer is typical & weight biased is in the vacinity of 60F40R.
Subaru's awd differs from front & rear biased AWD system, dubbed "Symmetrical AWD", subarus system is a balance 50/50 all the time, but can distribute power front to back, side to side to the tires with the most traction, & it's mainly mechanical setup.
Last edited by InfamousQ; 02-04-13 at 08:03 AM. Reason: grammar
#34
True
With front wheel biased SH-AWD, the car tends to understeer in the handling department. The SH-AWD isn't as good as it claims to be either, having seen one spin out on the highway in the middle of winter is uterly hilarious on a long stretch straight roads. The best awd systems comes from the likes of Audi, Infiniti, Lexus & few others, just not Acura.
The quality of the vehicle is lacking for a luxury brand, most would agree it's just basically a rebadge honda. Example is evident in canada with he CSX (rebadge honda civic with leather option), TSX is the eurospec Accord (TL used to be the rebadge eurospec Accord)
With front wheel biased SH-AWD, the car tends to understeer in the handling department. The SH-AWD isn't as good as it claims to be either, having seen one spin out on the highway in the middle of winter is uterly hilarious on a long stretch straight roads. The best awd systems comes from the likes of Audi, Infiniti, Lexus & few others, just not Acura.
The quality of the vehicle is lacking for a luxury brand, most would agree it's just basically a rebadge honda. Example is evident in canada with he CSX (rebadge honda civic with leather option), TSX is the eurospec Accord (TL used to be the rebadge eurospec Accord)
Read more: http://forums.motortrend.com/70/7083...#ixzz2JxhmVijZ
#35
I hated the new TL when the redesigned it. But, with the refresh, it's not a bad looking car. And the interior is great. So I gave it a look. After a quick test drive, I kinda like it, kinda not. It's AWD system helped mask the fact it's a BIG car. Power was adequate, but not great. Shifts were sluggish. Steering was numb. All told, the fun factor just wasn't there. I could say the same about the IS though.
In an effort to close the deal, the Acura dealer let me take a TL out for a long demo so I could get it on the highway and put it through it's paces. Epic fail. Big, numb, floaty and disconnected. Sure, it was comfy I guess, but I'd be asleep by the time I got to my destination. I've never taken an IS out for a lengthy highway cruise by comparison.
I ended up going with a CPO 335i. Paired with a proper MT, this car wins the fun factor comparison hands down. I don't care what the specs and numbers say, the 335i FEELS worlds apart from the TL and the IS. Even Lexus' own promo video for the new IS admits it was lacking in the fun factor. The 335 feels so planted, yet quick and nimble at the same time. Ride quality kinda blows, but it's worth it. Newer 3 series offer adjustable suspensions, so you can soften things up in the city.
I'm really anxious to see if the new IS is a worthy competitor to the 3 series. If it is, Acura is in a world of trouble 'cause they have a lot of catching up to do. I don't care if a car has enough techno wizardry to go to the moon. I don't care if it goes 0-60 in 3, 4 or 5 seconds. None of this matters if the overall driving experience is lame and disconnected.
#36
2010 TL with SH-AWD out did a 2008 Audi S4 Quattro manual; 2008 BMW 335i Sport; 2008 BMW 335xi Sport and a 2008 Infiniti G35s. Spanked them all around the track
Read more: http://forums.motortrend.com/70/7083...#ixzz2JxhmVijZ
Read more: http://forums.motortrend.com/70/7083...#ixzz2JxhmVijZ
Not sure why they would take a 2010 TL vs a 2008 G35, why not against the 2010 G37xS??
I would agree the TL SH-AWD in the manual, is faster than a G35xS (auto only) because the automatic is a horrible slush box.
Also if each car was driven with traction & stability on (which is not stated being turned off), the rear biased AWD cars nannies would kick in & be more intrusive than the Acura's front biased, therefore slowing the vehicle down significantly. Drive either vehicles in heavy snow condition & you will understand.
The 2009 TL SH-AWD vs the 2009 G37 Journey. Depends who reviews them & their level of driving skills, different reviewers have different opinion. If a professional driver (race car driver), was to test them, i beg to differ the results that motor trend got.
http://www.edmunds.com/infiniti/g37/...son-test1.html
Last edited by InfamousQ; 02-04-13 at 12:54 PM.
#37
Lexus Fanatic
#38
Driver School Candidate
Still fwd, still accord based and the IS is built in Japan. All the data shown from Honda is the Tl is compared mostly to their own accord the the Camry. Only on the internetz do people really compare. The gap between Lexus and Acura continues to widen. The ILX is a terrible indication of the future and the rlx is going to flop again.
Lexus didn't try to make the ES sporty and add Awd. They introduced a proper RWD car in the IS nearly 15 years ago.
There will clearly be TLx buyers but I don't think many today have much confidence in the brand.
Lexus didn't try to make the ES sporty and add Awd. They introduced a proper RWD car in the IS nearly 15 years ago.
There will clearly be TLx buyers but I don't think many today have much confidence in the brand.
They could make a killer TLX but something tells me they will want to leave distance between it and the RLX and frankly there is not much room there. If they can't make a competitive TLX then the only competitive cars they will have are the MDX and RDX.
Unfortunately Acura and Honda are so secretive about their plans they don't give their customers much to look forward to.
#39
Driver School Candidate
True
With front wheel biased SH-AWD, the car tends to understeer in the handling department. The SH-AWD isn't as good as it claims to be either, having seen one spin out on the highway in the middle of winter is uterly hilarious on a long stretch straight roads. The best awd systems comes from the likes of Audi, Infiniti, Lexus & few others, just not Acura.
The quality of the vehicle is lacking for a luxury brand, most would agree it's just basically a rebadge honda. Example is evident in canada with he CSX (rebadge honda civic with leather option), TSX is the eurospec Accord (TL used to be the rebadge eurospec Accord)
With front wheel biased SH-AWD, the car tends to understeer in the handling department. The SH-AWD isn't as good as it claims to be either, having seen one spin out on the highway in the middle of winter is uterly hilarious on a long stretch straight roads. The best awd systems comes from the likes of Audi, Infiniti, Lexus & few others, just not Acura.
The quality of the vehicle is lacking for a luxury brand, most would agree it's just basically a rebadge honda. Example is evident in canada with he CSX (rebadge honda civic with leather option), TSX is the eurospec Accord (TL used to be the rebadge eurospec Accord)
So the ES is just a rebadged Toyota?
#40
Advanced
Thread Starter
#41
Roads are designed to slope down to the side walk (center median has highest elevation vs road next to side walk) for drainage purpose, & when you're accelerating on snow & ice condition, the rear will fishtail towards the sidewalk (or which ever side the road slopes down), front biased AWD (front heavy) will pull away easier with little to no fish tail. Where I live, all-season are almost as useless as summer tires in the winter time, weather is much colder than the all-seasons are rated for.
As for the ES, 2013 shares the same platform as the Avalon, as for engine & transmission & drivetrain layout, it's the typical 2GR-FE V6 FWD transverse layout also found in the camry. Which is where it end it's similarities, the ES is built in an entirely different factory & country versus it's toyota counterpart so to answer your question, ES (all generation) is strictly a different vehicle.
If you want to look at a rebadge car, look up 2006-2011 honda civic & acura CSX, 2008-12 Honda Accord Euro & Acura TSX. 80+% indentical interior & exterior, not including material. I'll leave you to decide which gets leather & which gets cloth, standard.
Last edited by InfamousQ; 02-05-13 at 06:55 AM.
#42
Lexus Fanatic
A fully loaded IS350 AWD is $47,565, a fully loaded TL SHAWD with Tech is $44,676. So, the IS is $2,800 more. I'd pay $2,800 all day long for a Lexus over an IS.
Anyways, its a moot point because IMHO the TL and the IS aren't really competitors since the TL is so much bigger. Obviously when the new IS comes out, you won't be able to get a deal on one at all for a while.
#43
Guest
Posts: n/a
Acura's branding has been confusing in the last few years. They have said they are not trying to compete with 'tier 1' brands, that they want to be the 'smart luxury' brand. They don't want to invest in a RWD platform since I doubt they would sell that many more than they do today. Their cars are a better overall value, but recently with the ILX and RLX pricing I think they may be in danger of losing that value advantage.
They could make a killer TLX but something tells me they will want to leave distance between it and the RLX and frankly there is not much room there. If they can't make a competitive TLX then the only competitive cars they will have are the MDX and RDX.
Unfortunately Acura and Honda are so secretive about their plans they don't give their customers much to look forward to.
They could make a killer TLX but something tells me they will want to leave distance between it and the RLX and frankly there is not much room there. If they can't make a competitive TLX then the only competitive cars they will have are the MDX and RDX.
Unfortunately Acura and Honda are so secretive about their plans they don't give their customers much to look forward to.
TLX will come, appeal to the same Accord, Camry, Honda fans, a handful of Tier 1 buyers and that is all.
And really drop the ES commentary, the ES is the best selling Asian luxury car of all time and it continues to sell well and be well received. To critics and consumers Lexus has done a far better job with separation from its parent company.