Sango

iTrader: (10)

^
Could be the case but finding underbody damage is something one would not think of since the car is that low off the ground. It would catch the unsuspected. Of course for my case, it was no documentation of it either.

That's why I said in general, US, it's not really regulated. If it happened in Canada, trouble for the dealership from the government; therefore all dealerships really inspect their cars before it goes to CPO.

Joeb427

iTrader: (1)

Exactly!

Sango

iTrader: (10)

^
That maybe true, but the Lexus saids CPO is like-new condition. How would you interpret that? To me, it would imply, it was not in an accident and it very good and in pristine condition. An attorney can easily step in on the wording like this.

heyarms

iTrader: (5)

Sounds like a typical (Houston) dealership. Westside Lexus constantly treats me like crap and lies to me. That's why i never go in unless absolutely necessary. (They told me there is no documented issue with carbon build up on IS250's... theres a TSIB on it even!)

Joeb427

iTrader: (1)

A vehicle can be a CPO if in an accident.
A very good repair brings the vehicle to a like new condition.
Now frame damage and such,maybe not be CPO.I'm sure the vehicle is looked at closely by most dealers to see if the accident is repaired correctly and there wasn't no frame damage.
an attorney probably can't do anything if the repair was done properly..

Uda880

iTrader: (7)

I think we should all admit that giving legal advice to the OP on the forums is unsound. The OP should contact an attorney ASAP.

But, to give some anecdotal advice, since you waited until you drove it for so many miles before documenting the undisclosed damage, you may/may not have a strong case. I had a similar situation a few years ago in which I bought a G35 from a Mazda dealership in California and found out it had been in an accident where there was frame damage (after driving it for 2,000 miles and trying to align the vehicle). After a long ordeal that spanned 2 years, I won a case in which the dealership settled out of court - and I had the vehicle returned minus applicable usage fees.

Essentially, consulting an attorney is both economically feasible, and the most efficient method of finding out whether you can resolve your situation.

Sango

iTrader: (10)

Yes good point. In this case for the op, this was undocumented or disclosed so there is potential for legal action because if it was known, the OP would of chosen another car.

Frame damage probably not since the integirty is compromised.

Maybe I should post the email I wrote because they called me up pretty quickly after i sent them with the attatched documentation that it should not have been certified and that I was going to the general attoneys office and my dad knew some friends who are attoneys.

Stylnhonda

iTrader: (1)

I found out that most states in the US do not have to disclose damages done on lot's and such if it's under a certain $ amount. Pretty crappy.

Looks like it may be hard to do since you have had the car so long and who knows what could have happend while you have had it over the years. Goodluck though. I went all the way to corporate and was assigned a case number etc. Dealership was not willing to help.

calvin2376

iTrader: (2)

As has been stated above, this is simply not true, and is a common misconception about the CPO program. Take a look at the CPO website, these are the only two references to a car's history affecting its eligibility:

1) Can't be salvage title:

Salvage Title
A title issued on a vehicle where an insurance company has declared the vehicle a total loss. These vehicles were typically involved in a flood or severe accident and are not eligible for Lexus Certified Pre-Owned Vehicle Programs.

2) Must "Meet Standards" for Carfax history report:

HISTORY CHECKED
For extra peace of mind, CARFAX® vehicle history reports are provided for every Lexus Certified Pre-Owned Vehicle, helping you and your Lexus dealer identify potential problems that might otherwise be difficult to detect.

On point 2, all it says on the CPO checklist is that the Carfax history report must "Meet Standards". Nowhere does it say the Carfax must even be clean of accidents. If a Carfax is clean, then it meets this particular CPO standard, according to Lexus' explicit policy.

You're talking about fraud. What you're specifically referencing is the legal criterion for fraud which states the misrepresentation must be material, or put another way that you relied on the misrepresented information. You're correct that this is one of the criteria for fraud. But it is hardly the only one: http://www.smallbusinesslawfirms.com...fraud-criteria

The most key criteria you're missing is intent. The dealership did not intend to deceive you, the buyer. They checked Carfax, it was clean, so that met the CPO criteria for that particular aspect. The dealer is not under any obligation to investigate every mile of every used car they sell.

Unless this dealership said to you "Yes, we can guarantee this car has never been in an accident", you might have a case. However, what the dealership actually TOLD you is "We've checked the Carfax and it shows a clean, accident-free history". There is nothing fraudulent about that statement, it's entirely true.

This is where you get into caveat emptor. After the dealership told you the Carfax was clean, you had every right to purchase an Autocheck report to double-check the information, even to take it for a pre-purchase inspection and specifically ask them to remove body panels to check for evidence of past accidents.

You didn't. That's not a criticism of you, it's a simple fact that most people don't do that due diligence, myself included in a lot of cases. But what it DOES mean is that the dealership is not in any way liable for this. It was your responsibility to do the due diligence if you so chose; the dealership was in no way fraudulent and did meet the requirements of the CPO program by certifying the car.

All of that said, you're welcome to consult a lawyer. Go in for a free consultation. I highly doubt however that you have any case here whatsoever, because the dealership has done nothing legally wrong. It's impossible to even prove the dealership knew of the damage.

What you're going to get MUCH more luck and traction with is contacting Lexus. Be very polite, cordial, and straightforward. At no time lose your temper or get angry. Start by contacting the selling dealership's used car sales manager and explain to him your issue. You're upset because you were sold a car that showed a clean history, and now you've come to find that not only has it been in an accident, the repairs were subpar and are starting to cause issues (peeling paint). Have a discussion with him, and ask him what he can do to help you out, retain you as a customer, and prevent you from elevating it to Lexus corporate. If he's stubborn or not helpful, thank him regardless and explain you'll be contacting Lexus corporate.

Don't expect a new car out of this. It would be one thing if you noticed this the day you drove it off the lot. But you've had it 2 years and doubled the mileage. I think it would be reasonable to offer a compromise to the dealer/Lexus corporate that you're not asking for a new car, you simply want them to replace the non-Lexus parts with Lexus parts and repair any issues resulting from the previous damage (like the peeling paint). That or you want them to repair the peeling paint and agree to warranty all parts that may be non-Lexus that were used as replacements.

Again, I know you're furious and I would be too. But you don't have a strong legal case here at all. Even for the poster above who bought a car he shortly found out to have frame damage (a worse situation than yours), it took 2 years to get resolved in court, all of which takes time, resources, and legal fees. The best course of action is to retain a cool head and pursue a goodwill gesture through the dealer and Lexus corporate.

Sango

iTrader: (10)

I guess it is fraud what I am trying to say. With my case, I did get free consultation but never resorted to it.

After I threw the email that I was going go to the state attorney general's office and threw attached the adjuster's report with pictures, they replied very quickly. I guess the dealership did not want to have a public complaint on file if they were going to keep pushing me back with the "AS IS" thing I signed and saying repainted is normal. Mine did have some kind of frame damage as well as there were indications of welding work underneath.

In the end I was happy. They allowed me to get any car of my choosing at their cost and bought back the car + compensation; which was how I gotten my USB.

User 41924

I have 2 questions:

1) What exactly would you like them to do for you to remedy the problem. I suspect they won't replace the parts used by an unknown body shop for free, but I may be wrong. Maybe they'll give you a deal on a repaint.

2) I assume you were happy with the car prior to this knowledge. Why would that change?

I say tell them you're unhappy with them not disclosing the prior accident, and see what options they give you. Maybe threaten them by going public with the information. In the end, it's up to them to determine how they want to treat you.

KillaIS250

iTrader: (1)

^ You're assuming the dealership illegally didn't disclose that information to the OP. I wouldn't go around threatening a company who most likely hasn't done anything illegal in selling the OP the car. It's much better to just ask for something out of good will and see where that goes. Rubbing the dealership the wrong way right off the bat is not how it should be done.

dackp143

iTrader: (3)

What is the VIN? I can run a report on my end from my dealership.

Also, unless you have some paperwork from the original purchase saying that there is no damage and that the car has never been in an accident, then you can't do very much. Look on the bright side, the car is fixed now with authentic Lexus branded equipment and now only has this one pig hitting accident on the books. I mean, you just had to replace the bumper etc again, who cares about the first accident. No matter what the value of your car just dropped officially.

Sango

iTrader: (10)

Well I wouldn't exactly say threaten, it's more like escalate.

In my earlier post, I did say go with the pre-sales manager get prepared to escalate if it does not work.

For me, I started off with sales person, then pre-sales manager, then GM. After all failed, after they were pushing me back as they were saying the car was fine, they looked at the checklist etc... It was a week after that or so I got, Lexus corporate, GM and President of the dealership all got involved and stuff about legal after gathering the evidence.

Acer

iTrader: (3)

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